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-   -   Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97987)

panamamyers 01-17-2013 09:57 PM

Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade
 
Let us assume that Schaub remains the starter next year.
There is obviously a level that the rest of the team could reach that would win the Super Bowl despite a sub par qb.
What level is that?

If we had Brisiel and Winston back for instance.
Got someone with the talent of Dwayne Bowe to play opposite of Andre.
Barwin regain his form from last year.
Draft someone on the level of Kareem Jackson let's say to play the nickel corner. Draft someone that is just as good as Manning to play the third safety.
Get someone along the lines of a Bruce Carter to play alongside Cushing.

Just how many positions, and how much of an upgrade at each of those positions, do we need to upgrade to where you would feel comfortable going to battle with Schaub?

Would finding comparable replacements that brings the line back to 2011 standards and Barwin getting 15 sacks and getting Bowe opposite Andre make you feel confident with our chances at the Super Bowl? Would we need to upgrade even more than that?

Brisco_County 01-17-2013 10:13 PM

Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade
 
We need a lot in general, not just "upgrades." A right guard for depth, a starting ILB, a starting NT, a WR to replace Posey, a CB for depth, a safety for depth, an OLB if we let Barwin walk.

Texcore 01-17-2013 11:04 PM

Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by panamamyers (Post 2111565)
Let us assume that Schaub remains the starter next year.
There is obviously a level that the rest of the team could reach that would win the Super Bowl despite a sub par qb.
What level is that?

If we had Brisiel and Winston back for instance.
Got someone with the talent of Dwayne Bowe to play opposite of Andre.
Barwin regain his form from last year.
Draft someone on the level of Kareem Jackson let's say to play the nickel corner. Draft someone that is just as good as Manning to play the third safety.
Get someone along the lines of a Bruce Carter to play alongside Cushing.

Just how many positions, and how much of an upgrade at each of those positions, do we need to upgrade to where you would feel comfortable going to battle with Schaub?

Would finding comparable replacements that brings the line back to 2011 standards and Barwin getting 15 sacks and getting Bowe opposite Andre make you feel confident with our chances at the Super Bowl? Would we need to upgrade even more than that?

All of the above you mentioned would help, but we also need a bit of a more aggressive philosophy on offense. I think we need to draft with the intent of improving our pass rush even more. Win that battle at the line of scrimmage more than they do and we can beat them.

That is our best bet.

panamamyers 01-18-2013 12:28 AM

Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade
 
im looking for not so much generalizations, but more specifics.
i know the positions we need, but i want to know just what level of greatness the rest of the team must reach to compensate for schaub.
if we had a demarcus ware type talent at olb and a justin smith type talent at dt would those two guys alone put you in a frame of mind of thinkining we have better than even odds of making a super bowl.
im just trying to get an idea of just how lucky we have to be in acquiring talent and just how exceptional eveyone else is going to have to be since the constant is obviousky going to be schaub.

panamamyers 01-18-2013 12:37 AM

Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade
 
its probably too complicated of a question to really be able to answer.

midway 01-18-2013 12:40 AM

Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade
 
With Schaub as QB you basically need 10 other pro-bowlers on offense to win the super bowl.

Norg 01-18-2013 01:14 AM

Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade
 
on offensive ...????

another play maker at the #2 WR slot

a beast of a RT

a true Beast of a FB

a much better Special Teams


if we get all that schub will be better ..cause i like what we got a Guards and are TE's are good OD and hopefully a improved Garrett

thunderkyss 01-18-2013 05:00 AM

Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by panamamyers (Post 2111637)
its probably too complicated of a question to really be able to answer.

We probably need a little more luck than we need an upgrade at any position. I do think HFA would have helped, if Denver were to beat New England. If we were to get Baltimore at home, I think we had a better chance of winning that game than the Patriots on the road.

I think the Patriots would have beat us at home, so we would have needed Denver to beat them.

& by a little luck, I mean someone with a better grasp of how the game is going. I think both Minnesota & the last Colts game were winnable if we'd have gotten our heads out of our butts sooner.

There were plays to be made with the game pan we used, but the "stay calm, don't get too high or too low" mentality killed us over the last 6 weeks.

Txn_in_Oki 01-18-2013 06:37 AM

Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by panamamyers (Post 2111635)
im looking for not so much generalizations, but more specifics.
i know the positions we need, but i want to know just what level of greatness the rest of the team must reach to compensate for schaub.

Is that you Gary? Looking for a little advice from the boards eh?

Speedy 01-18-2013 06:39 AM

Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by midway (Post 2111639)
With Schaub as QB you basically need 10 other pro-bowlers on offense to win the super bowl.

If that's the case I wonder what the Broncos would need, assuming Peyton Manning remains the starter.

RT22 01-18-2013 09:37 AM

Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade
 
Team speed and playmakers to surround Schuab. After rewatching the NE playoff game we lack the speed to win individual match ups. Also we do not audible on offense which is a disadvantage and why we have a lot of 3 and outs. If we can not run the ball we can not throw it. When we lined up in the shotgun the Pats played us to run short routes and that's what we did with only a 4 man rush and at the most 5. Kubiak needs to turn over the play calling, offense was better when Shanny was able to call a play every now and then. It almost seems that every pass is predetermined by Kubiak telling Schaub exactly who to go to by design no matter what the defense does. If you rewatch the game look at Schaub when he comes to the los, no looking over the defense to see what they are running to make adjustments, just snaps the ball when it is a pass he looks at his primary as soon as it is snapped. Also if look at the other wr they do not sell there route if they are not the primary. Look at first drive of the game on the Casey drop Foster went in motion and just kinda jogged to the corner never looking for the ball or even making a move. Also look at Daniels when he came of the los he ran his route and you can tell he was looking at Casey not at Schuab knowing the ball was not coming to him even though he was open.

Sorry for getting off the subject a bit.

76Texan 01-18-2013 10:33 AM

Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade
 
Blocking, blocking, and blocking.
Not just for the passing game, but also for the running game so we can move the chain.

Imagine the Texans facing a guy like J. J. Watt twice a year, instead of a second tier D-lineman from our rivals.

Wade Smith hasn't been healthy in a long time, and it doesn't look like that is going to change.

While both Jones and Brandon Brooks showed promises, they are still way too inconsistent.

And Newton barely makes the grade when he was healthy.

Casey isn't cutting it as a blocking FB and O.D. has never been much at blocking either.

Either we get a bona-fide heavyweight at FB or we need another great blocking TE, preferrably both.

That's at least 3 positions to upgrade.
Good linemen can only be found in the top two rounds.
You can find one a little later but he'll likely be a project or a platoon player to start out (spelling Newton or one of the Guards in a rotation.)

A blocking FB and a blocking TE can be found in the 4th or later.

(I haven't looked at the FBs yet, but there are a couple of TEs in the draft that look good in blocking - I still hate it that we didn't take Brandon Myers who is now with the Raiders.)

Then find a speedster at WR in the third round. He can be raw like Jacoby was but as long as be can stretch the field, he'll help.
T.J. Graham, T.Y Hilton, Leonard Hankerson, Clyde Gates, they all are guys that were drafted in the third or lower the last two years.)

Revamp the defense with a FA and the rest of your draft class.

It's not easy but it can be done; at least you can upgrade the team some.

panamamyers 01-18-2013 10:55 AM

Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade
 
Sorry, I was typing on my tablet last night. Couldn't really elaborate on my replies.

The other 10 guys being Pro Bowlers is probably the closest to a correct answer as can be had lol

I think if we had Dwayne Bowe at the other receiver, Amendola in the slot, Winston and Brisiel both back and maybe an upgrade at tight end to a guy with a little more quickness and overall speed than Daniels.

Then we would be in good shape to do what we needed to do on offense. The running game would be better and we would have better playmakers across the board once Schaub gets rid of the ball.

We are obviously not going to have those specific players back, but just an idea of the caliber of player we need in those positions to feel comfortable in letting Schaub run the show.

So, we have to hope that Brooks and Newton elevate their play to a Brisiel and Winston level. Draft Tavon Austin in the first to fill the Amendola role. Draft Da'Rick Rodgers in the second to fill the Dwayne Bowe role. Get Jordan Reed in the third and hope he's some semblance of Aaron Hernandez.

Not really expecting a good answer here, just trying to wrap my head around just how much better the rest of the team is going to need to be to counteract the deficiency at qb.

Mr teX 01-18-2013 11:02 AM

Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade
 
First of all, all these things would need to happen if this were any qb outside of the top 5.

On offense:

definitely a speedy #2 WR..somebody other than AJ that is legitimate threat in the passing game. That's why the Pats and GB played so much man against us, they have no fear of anyone outside of AJ beating them in the passing game and its too much of any qb to ask them to repeatedly thread the needle cause your WR's can't separate....let alone 1 with Schaub's limitations.

a legit starting RT..Newton was a 7th rounder for a reason..can't go into the season with that dude starting next year.


On defense:

another young fast ILB that above anything else must be good in coverage...sean lee, luke kechly type...this would allow us to stay in base coverage a bit more rather than bringing a cb in or safety down.

a space eating NT. Wade has said and proven repeatedly that his defenses can be successful without this type of player, but i think our defense with the core we have now has potential to go next level good if he's got that fat pig in the middle.

Aside from all this, kubiak has to open it up more on offense.

Wade has to run zone a bit more.

Tailgate 01-18-2013 11:09 AM

Q
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 76Texan (Post 2111786)
Blocking, blocking, and blocking.
Not just for the passing game, but also for the running game so we can move the chain.

Imagine the Texans facing a guy like J. J. Watt twice a year, instead of a second tier D-lineman from our rivals.

Wade Smith hasn't been healthy in a long time, and it doesn't look like that is going to change.

While both Jones and Brandon Brooks showed promises, they are still way too inconsistent.

And Newton barely makes the grade when he was healthy.

Casey isn't cutting it as a blocking FB and O.D. has never been much at blocking either.

Either we get a bona-fide heavyweight at FB or we need another great blocking TE, preferrably both.

That's at least 3 positions to upgrade.
Good linemen can only be found in the top two rounds.
You can find one a little later but he'll likely be a project or a platoon player to start out (spelling Newton or one of the Guards in a rotation.)

A blocking FB and a blocking TE can be found in the 4th or later.

(I haven't looked at the FBs yet, but there are a couple of TEs in the draft that look good in blocking - I still hate it that we didn't take Brandon Myers who is now with the Raiders.)

Then find a speedster at WR in the third round. He can be raw like Jacoby was but as long as be can stretch the field, he'll help.
T.J. Graham, T.Y Hilton, Leonard Hankerson, Clyde Gates, they all are guys that were drafted in the third or lower the last two years.)

Revamp the defense with a FA and the rest of your draft class.

It's not easy but it can be done; at least you can upgrade the team some.

I think for the 2013 season ONLY. We need a legit starting RT, and a legit starting ILB to play next to Cush. We need to sign a #2 WR. We need a true blocking FB, and we need a stud all around TE to bring into the fold. Upgrade these areas and I think we have a better chance next year. Seems realistic.

For long term, we will need to look at QB, WR, Safety, CB, NT, and DE very soon.

LikeMike 01-18-2013 11:58 AM

Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade
 
In a perfect storm we could have won it this year - the talent is there. The injury to Cushing was a big blow, and our guys just seemed to crumble a bit under pressure.

But what we need to do is fix our O-Line. That helps our running game immensely, and also Schaub - who can do more with play action and who would have more time to throw.

Other than that - a little tinkering here and there. But overall we`re good. This team has all it needs to win - they just have to realize how to do it.

welsh texan 01-18-2013 12:12 PM

Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade
 
This board really needs to decide how much potential they see along the new Oline players.

Myers, Briesel & brown all took a few years before becoming quality starters in the system, it seems like brooks and jones have the potential whilst Newton has a few question marks over his head, despite having had longer in the system.

Well see soon enough, but you can't expect, in this system, to throw top level draft picks at the position and expect immediate improvement.

GP 01-18-2013 01:10 PM

Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade
 
OL, OL, and OL.

If Schaub is the QB, you have to protect him 90% of the time with better pass blocking and let the refs protect him that 10% of time when he gets thrown to the ground like a rag doll.

Except the only way to do that, now, is for us to draft one in the 1st through 3rd rounds. Which means you end up being thin at the other areas we need, such as ILB and WR. We don't have the cap space to go after a veteran pass blocker.

We need to hit home runs with our draft.

TejasTom 01-18-2013 01:37 PM

Someone, anyone, WR, RB, coach, that knows where the 1st down maker is on 3rd down because most of our team seems to have forgotten.

Posted using Tapatalk from my phone. May contain errors.

Mr teX 01-18-2013 01:58 PM

Re: Assuming Schaub starts, how much do we need to upgrade
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by welsh texan (Post 2111904)
This board really needs to decide how much potential they see along the new Oline players.

Myers, Briesel & brown all took a few years before becoming quality starters in the system, it seems like brooks and jones have the potential whilst Newton has a few question marks over his head, despite having had longer in the system.

Well see soon enough, but you can't expect, in this system, to throw top level draft picks at the position and expect immediate improvement.

Im with you on the o-line to a point.

I think Jones is going to be fine at RG and had he not been in Kubiak's doghouse coming into camp he probably wins the job outright going into the season instead of shuttling in and out with Harris... He showed pretty well against the pats though.

Newton on the other hand didn't really look good at any point this season and i don't see him improving much going into next year.

The other thing is Wade Smith didn't look too hot for a good portion of the season either...I know he was hurt but still, u gotta wonder if it was all injury or was he showing signs of decline.


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