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-   -   The Comeback Sequence Needed more Mustard for those Biscuits (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97964)

Vinny 01-17-2013 12:21 PM

The Comeback Sequence Needed more Mustard for those Biscuits
 
I was re-watching the game and I wanted to focus on what exactly it was that irritated me about how we managed our attempt to win the game with a quarter left on the clock. We start the "comeback" by going for a 4th and 1 and throwing deep while deep in our own territory. This team is the king of the slant routes, the crossing pattern, the 7 yard special....but do we do what we do best? Nah, keep Foster in to block and let's throw a low % pass down field...to the rookie. On defense we roll out the same clown car with Ruud playing cornerback. After that, it's salvage the stats time and plod to our final scoring effort with 95% of the 4th quarter left. Throwing the ball deep while in 4th and 1 and chipping it down field with short passes when you have to be aggressive? If this is Kubiak's way of keeping them honest, he needs more mustard on his biscuits.

Here's how it went down:

4th & 1 on own 33. Foster stays in to block and Schaub misses on a deep route to Posey. Andre Johnson 10-15 yards further upfield in the same area. Turnover in Patriot red zone.

Pats swing Vereen out to the x wide out. Ruud runs out to cover him in space. Touchdown Patriots. 3rd TD for Vereen. Danny Woodhead started, Ridley is the feature back and Vereen is the 3rd back. One play after the turnover in our own territory we are down 13-38 with a full quarter to play.

13:05 on the clock. Houston 13, New England 38. Manning kick return to the Patriot 37 yard line. Pretty much the exact same place on the field we gave the Patriots on the initial 4th&1 in this sequence of events. After making safe throws taking what the defense gave them the Texans manage to finally score with 5:11 remaining in the game.

Patriot ball with 4:14 left in the game with a critical 3rd down situation after two runs straight up the gut for 8 yards. Kareem Jackson holds Wes Welker. Automatic 1st down, game over.

Double Barrel 01-17-2013 12:46 PM

Re: The Comeback Sequence Needed more Mustard for those Biscuits
 
http://www3.obamiconme.pastemagazine...d-biscuits.gif

Vaughan Cunningham: You always seem to be deep in thought. Tell me, what are you thinking right now?

Karl: I was thinkin', I'm gonna take me some of these taters home with me.

In both Patriots games, it seems like the Texans mentally shut down in the 4th quarters. That's probably not the case to those on the team, but to the rest of us, it truly looked like they had accepted defeat in both games before the clock hit 0:00.

That loser body language and lack of spirit is something that they have to find a way to overcome. Great teams never quit, even when it looks like all is lost. They fight and claw with all their will until the game is officially over. I do not see that kind of fight in this team at this point in time. Hopefully that changes soon.

ThaShark316 01-17-2013 01:04 PM

Re: The Comeback Sequence Needed more Mustard for those Biscuits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Double Barrel (Post 2111226)
http://www3.obamiconme.pastemagazine...d-biscuits.gif

Vaughan Cunningham: You always seem to be deep in thought. Tell me, what are you thinking right now?

Karl: I was thinkin', I'm gonna take me some of these taters home with me.

In both Patriots games, it seems like the Texans mentally shut down in the 4th quarters. That's probably not the case to those on the team, but to the rest of us, it truly looked like they had accepted defeat in both games before the clock hit 0:00.

That loser body language and lack of spirit is something that they have to find a way to overcome. Great teams never quit, even when it looks like all is lost. They fight and claw with all their will until the game is officially over. I do not see that kind of fight in this team at this point in time. Hopefully that changes soon.

I gotta kind of disagree because If they checked out, that score never reaches 38-28.

thunderkyss 01-17-2013 01:33 PM

Re: The Comeback Sequence Needed more Mustard for those Biscuits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny (Post 2111211)
I was re-watching the game and I wanted to focus on what exactly it was that irritated me about how we managed our attempt to win the game with a quarter left on the clock.

I work with a group of guys in an industrial environment. It gets pretty fast paced around here & it's important that we work diligently, but keep our heads as a little mistake could turn into big trouble. I never tell anyone to "slow down" but I'm always telling them to take your time, be sure, etc.. etc..

Most mistakes are made when people get in a hurry, or they're frustrated or upset & not thinking about what they are doing.

I have to imagine some of that goes into what Kubiak tells Matt, seeing how we lost so many games in 2009 & 2010 because of "silly" mistakes & during that time, when it rained, it poured.

But damn........ I've never seen it go to such extreme.


There are two ways not to make mistakes. One, is to just not do anything risky. The other, is to practice those high risk situations, until they're second nature. When Kubiak got here, Carr was stuck in the don't take risks mode & I thought Kubiak was in the "we've got to get better" mode. Sage didn't give a f & I really liked that about him. He might throw an INT, but if it was a good decision, just didn't go his way, he was going to throw that ball again in that situation next time.

Schaub was the same way. & I liked that. Short memory, try to win, get better everyday, keep taking shots.

But something has definitely changed, & I don't know why. Looking back, it was a long time coming. Though I said Schaub took chances back in the day, he stopped throwing the long ball a long time ago. I thought it was because his arm was too weak to get it ahead of Andre, but it does appear that he underthrows his receivers on purpose. So...

Long story short, yeah you're right. No sense of urgency at all.

Runner 01-17-2013 01:59 PM

Re: The Comeback Sequence Needed more Mustard for those Biscuits
 
“Be quick, but don’t hurry” - John Wooden

His point is to do the right things, but learn how to do them quickly. Doing the right thing doesn't have to be plodding and over-cautious.

To me the slow offense is the flip side of not being ready on defense for the Patriot's hurry up offense. The seeming lack of urgency is just incompetence in that facet of the game. It funnels down from the head coach's approach. "Hurry up" is a necessary part of the game that the Texans just don't address very well. It doesn't fit well with Kubiak's football mentality.

thunderkyss 01-17-2013 02:15 PM

Re: The Comeback Sequence Needed more Mustard for those Biscuits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Runner (Post 2111281)
It doesn't fit well with Kubiak's football mentality.

I don't know if I want to go that far.

I remember when he got here, we'd run a two minute drill & somehow the other team would score twice.

However, I think we've had enough success with it over the last two or three years, that we'd run it more often. The only reason we don't.... I believe, is because he doesn't trust someone(s) on this team. I can't imagine it's the QB.

If it were the QB, he never would have extended him, unless McNair is giving Schaub that golden handshake same as Carr. Maybe this was Matt's last hurrah, I doubt it. But I've never seen a WCO quarterback that was so limited.

Double Barrel 01-17-2013 02:22 PM

Re: The Comeback Sequence Needed more Mustard for those Biscuits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaShark316 (Post 2111237)
I gotta kind of disagree because If they checked out, that score never reaches 38-28.

I don't think they quit playing, but rather they quit thinking that they could make a comeback against the New England Patriots.

76Texan 01-17-2013 02:31 PM

Re: The Comeback Sequence Needed more Mustard for those Biscuits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiddler (Post 2111299)
I don't know if I want to go that far.

I remember when he got here, we'd run a two minute drill & somehow the other team would score twice.

However, I think we've had enough success with it over the last two or three years, that we'd run it more often. The only reason we don't.... I believe, is because he doesn't trust someone(s) on this team. I can't imagine it's the QB.

If it were the QB, he never would have extended him, unless McNair is giving Schaub that golden handshake same as Carr. Maybe this was Matt's last hurrah, I doubt it. But I've never seen a WCO quarterback that was so limited.

Kubiak is probably not very comfortable with Schaub running much of the no huddle or hurry-up offense so we didn't see it much; but the Broncos weren't shy with Elway.

That reminds me of a piece about how Kubiak said Keenum shined during TC in that aspect; he used the term "automatic" to describe Keenum.

There's an article out there on the net, let me see if I can figure how to link it with my IPhone.


http://http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/06/rave-reviews-for-texans-rookie-qb-case-keenum/

Runner 01-17-2013 04:15 PM

Re: The Comeback Sequence Needed more Mustard for those Biscuits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 76Texan (Post 2111310)
That reminds me of a piece about how Kubiak said Keenum shined during TC in that aspect; he used the term "automatic" to describe Keenum.

Automatic? Then put him in!

Texan Asylum 01-17-2013 04:52 PM

Re: The Comeback Sequence Needed more Mustard for those Biscuits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Double Barrel (Post 2111226)
http://www3.obamiconme.pastemagazine...d-biscuits.gif

Vaughan Cunningham: You always seem to be deep in thought. Tell me, what are you thinking right now?

Karl: I was thinkin', I'm gonna take me some of these taters home with me.


LOL!


VAUGHAN:

Oh. How about before that?

KARL:

Before that I was thinkin' it'd be good if I could get another three or four cans of that potted meat if you got any extry.

thunderkyss 01-17-2013 05:33 PM

Re: The Comeback Sequence Needed more Mustard for those Biscuits
 
I've decided to rewatch the game, & I'm looking at the opening drive. 1st, I know it's way too predictable that we will run the ball on first down inside the red zone, sure enough, that's what we do here. However, we've got Arian Foster, so I really don't mind. The Patriots don't do anything special to counter.
We're lined up with a single back, 2 TEs, 2 WRs. Both TEs are on the right, Graham off the line next to Newton, OD on the line outside the hash marks, KDub just next to him, off the line. Andre is the lone receiver to the left, on the line. There is a CB playing press coverage on him, A DE on Browns outside shoulder, Wilfork playing right over Smith, The UT is between Ben Jones & Newton, with a LB playing outside of Graham. We're outnumbered to the left, 5 on 4.

At the snap, Andre tries to block 28... doesn't do a good job. Brown tries to take the DE to the right, doesn't do a good job. He get's his hands on the guy, gets a little movement, but drifts backwards, sealing off the end. Arian has to go inside. Smith & Myers double Wilfork. Myers doesn't do a good job of moving Wilfork sideways.... I know he's undersized, but Wilfork takes on Smith & Myers has a good shot at him from the side, should be advantage Myers, but it isn't. Myers comes off that block & blocks the LB. Ben Jones & Newton double 71. Newton's size advantage doesn't do much towards getting 71 to move laterally, He leaves Ben Jones & makes a block at the second level. Ben Jones struggles with 71, they run into Smith & Wilfork, Foster tried to cut behind Ben Jones, but since Ben & Smith aren't getting any lateral movement, it's a pretty acrobatic jump back inside. Looks kinda funny. Ninkovich pretty much jukes around Graham & is pretty much free. As Foster dives back inside of Jones for 3 yards, Wilfork, Deaderick, Ninkovitch, & Spikes (who was poorly blocked by Newton) jump on him.
This has nothing to do with being predictable or running at Wilfork. It's supposed to be a stretch to the left, but their guys simply beat our guys. & it's not like one or two of them, across the board, our guys got beat.

We throw it on second down.
If Belichick is a genius for getting us to put a LB on a RB, then Kubiak is the same kind of genius. Foster motions out of the backfield, lines up wide left. Mayo is covering him, shaded to the inside, he wants Foster against the sideline.... no safety help. At the snap, Foster doesn't break off the line as if to beat Mayo to the corner of the endzone. He barely runs a route imo. It's as if the only reason he is out there, is to get Mayo out of the middle. & that may be the case, as that is a big reason why Casey is wide open running the seam (out of the backfield), Schaub finds him, gets the ball right where it needed to be.... but he dropped it.

Pass blocking is okay, not great. Brown has a TE on his left, so it takes a while for Chandler Jones to get around him before Brown can get his hands on him. Looks like he initially misjudges Jones' speed, but recovers well. Newton drops back, almost straight, with no arc. By the time he's at the end of his drop, he's only a few feet from Schaub. The strong side LB comes on a blitz & explodes into Nate on contact, driving Nate backwards into Schaub. Schaub just threw the ball, but can't follow through with his lower body as his leg kicks Newton. Ben Jones, Myers, & Smith do an excellent job blocking Wilfork, 71, & Ninkovich... plenty of room to step up, if needed..... it wasn't.

Owens route was ran pretty well, he's open just like Casey, right in front of Matt, but there is a safety sitting on his route. That safety is also over KDub, can't really see what Andre is doing.
Third & 7, we throw it again.
Andre makes it to the back of the endzone clean. He's running free, there's a window for Schaub to hit him, but Schaub throws it late. Pass protection again looks good. But Newton is punched backwards into Schaub's vicinity again..... his arc isn't as wide as it could be. Duane Brown moves very well for such a big man. 94 is relentlessly working on Smith, but Smith doesn't budge. Ben Jones blocks Wilfork, who doesn't really try to penetrate. Shaub's got plenty of time. He does have a couple of defenders he'g got to get the ball over, but a very makable throw.

What I don't like, Owen Daniels, Walter, & Andre are in a bunch formation to the right. Walter off the line, OD on the line, then Andre off the line. Owen breaks left, Walter crosses under him, Andre runs straight. Their safety Gregory is in press coverage on OD, as Owen cuts, the safety doesn't get a hand on him, & follows him inside. Gerard Mayo is manning the middle, eyes on Schaub, but he sees Owen running his quick slant. Mayo steps up, to get in his way & cuts Daniels route off. Great play by Mayo, nothing OD could do. But what I hate about it, is that even though Mayo had his responsibilities, he knows that he cant' allow Owen to run unimpeded through the middle.

Our LBs wouldn't have made that play, instead they would have tried avoid getting hit by Hernandez or Gronk & get in Quin's way as he tries to cover him. Their LBs understand zone coverage & routes & helping their safeties.... ours dont.

The throw to Andre is probably late, because Matt was looking for this route to develop & Mayo botched it for us. Great play by Mayo. Matt still could have made a better throw to Andre. As high as he threw it, if he'd have led him only Andre would have had a play on it.
However, if you're on our defense, STs got the offense to the 12 yard line, & we settled for a field goal, what would you be thinking?

Double Barrel 01-17-2013 05:44 PM

Re: The Comeback Sequence Needed more Mustard for those Biscuits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderkyss (Post 2111465)
However, if you're on our defense, STs got the offense to the 12 yard line, & we settled for a field goal, what would you be thinking?

Probably the same thing the rest of us were thinking: It's going to be a long game.

EllisUnit 01-17-2013 06:37 PM

Re: The Comeback Sequence Needed more Mustard for those Biscuits
 
Lets put it this way, a cowboys fan i work with came up to me the other day and said

"Man if u guys didnt have such a ***** conservative coach the texans would be playing in the Superbowl this season. But your team always seems to give up" "with so much talent this team can win a SB, but not with Kubiak as coach"

NOW what does that tell you, this guy hates the texans but even he sees the problem and the potential.

panamamyers 01-17-2013 08:26 PM

Re: The Comeback Sequence Needed more Mustard for those Biscuits
 
The worst decision by far was going for the onside kick with so much time left in the game and so many timeouts left.
Should have kicked it deep then and played defense like you had been doing. That was the ball game.

ThaShark316 01-17-2013 10:57 PM

Re: The Comeback Sequence Needed more Mustard for those Biscuits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by panamamyers (Post 2111532)
The worst decision by far was going for the onside kick with so much time left in the game and so many timeouts left.
Should have kicked it deep then and played defense like you had been doing. That was the ball game.

Couldn't disagree more.

Besides, K-Jax got robbed on that 3rd down holding call. We play off of Lloyd on another 3rd down...easy pitch and catch. Changes to get off the field were there.

That onside kick was executed to PERFECTION. 38-35 (or 31) game within 2-3 minutes of that...THEN you play D.

texanhead08 01-18-2013 12:14 AM

Re: The Comeback Sequence Needed more Mustard for those Biscuits
 
Clock management has been a problem since Kubiak got here.

thunderkyss 01-18-2013 07:19 AM

Re: The Comeback Sequence Needed more Mustard for those Biscuits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 76Texan (Post 2111310)
Kubiak is probably not very comfortable with Schaub running much of the no huddle or hurry-up offense so we didn't see it much; but the Broncos weren't shy with Elway.

That can't be it. No way we pay a guy $60M if they don't trust him to run a 2 minute offense. The problem has to be elsewhere. There's someone, something else he doesn't trust.

Rey 01-18-2013 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiddler (Post 2111674)
That can't be it. No way we pay a guy $60M if they don't trust him to run a 2 minute offense. The problem has to be elsewhere. There's someone, something else he doesn't trust.

We paid Carr a bunch of money then cut him.

It's not like this franchise hadn't made mistakes and then later realized their error before.

buddyboy 01-18-2013 08:12 AM

Re: The Comeback Sequence Needed more Mustard for those Biscuits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EllisUnit (Post 2111490)
Lets put it this way, a cowboys fan i work with came up to me the other day and said

"Man if u guys didnt have such a ***** conservative coach the texans would be playing in the Superbowl this season. But your team always seems to give up" "with so much talent this team can win a SB, but not with Kubiak as coach"

NOW what does that tell you, this guy hates the texans but even he sees the problem and the potential.

Why listen to a Cowboys fan on what's wrong with this team? Do you think his opinion has any more weight than anyone here? I guarantee you 90% of these posters know more than him, why should we care what a cowboys fan thinks?

Mr teX 01-18-2013 08:23 AM

Re: The Comeback Sequence Needed more Mustard for those Biscuits
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiddler (Post 2111674)
That can't be it. No way we pay a guy $60M if they don't trust him to run a 2 minute offense. The problem has to be elsewhere. There's someone, something else he doesn't trust.

running the no-huddle and hurry up was not an issue in years past. I surmise its probably the WR's and O-line....right side of the o-line specifically.


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