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-   -   What Constitutes a QB Fumble??? (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97570)

DocBar 01-05-2013 08:29 PM

What Constitutes a QB Fumble???
 
Two weeks in a row, the Texans have been hosed by the ref's on, to me at least, OBVIOUS sack/fumbles. Both times, the call was an incomplete pass. How does a defender knocking a QB's arm forward (when it was still going backwards before contact in the replays) because he hit him make it an incomplete pass?

The call in Indy was game changing. We would've had the ball in their territory in a very close game. The call today didn't hurt us, but what if Cincy had scored a TD on that drive?

Have these been terrible calls or do I not fully understand the rules? I had to watch todays game on a computer with no sound, so I didn't get the "official ruling".

gtexan02 01-05-2013 08:30 PM

Re: What Constitutes a QB Fumble???
 
Inthought today's was the right call but I thought last weeks was atrocious.

JCTexan 01-05-2013 08:32 PM

Re: What Constitutes a QB Fumble???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gtexan02 (Post 2098366)
Inthought today's was the right call but I thought last weeks was atrocious.

I agree. This week's call looked to be the right one. Last week's call was just terrible.

NCTexan 01-05-2013 08:35 PM

Re: What Constitutes a QB Fumble???
 
Playing off this, if they had ruled it a fumble what would of happened since it was blown dead?

DocBar 01-05-2013 08:36 PM

Re: What Constitutes a QB Fumble???
 
I thought todays call was horrible. Dalton"s arm was clearly still going backwards when he was hit by Barwin.

NitroGSXR 01-05-2013 08:38 PM

Re: What Constitutes a QB Fumble???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DocBar (Post 2098381)
I thought todays call was horrible. Dalton"s arm was clearly still going backwards when he was hit by Barwin.

He still had control of the ball though. I thought Dalton saved one there with his hand strength.

DocBar 01-05-2013 08:38 PM

Re: What Constitutes a QB Fumble???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NitroGSXR (Post 2098384)
He still had control of the ball though. I thought Dalton saved one there with his hand strength.

He had control until Barwin hit his arm! That means fumble.

Big Lou 01-05-2013 08:41 PM

Re: What Constitutes a QB Fumble???
 
A fumble is when any team other than the Texans knock the ball out of the quarterbacks hands.

keyser 01-05-2013 08:41 PM

Re: What Constitutes a QB Fumble???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DocBar (Post 2098363)
Two weeks in a row, the Texans have been hosed by the ref's on, to me at least, OBVIOUS sack/fumbles. Both times, the call was an incomplete pass. How does a defender knocking a QB's arm forward (when it was still going backwards before contact in the replays) because he hit him make it an incomplete pass?

Doc, I don't know the precise rule, but the general thing I understand is that if the arm is moving forward, for whatever reason, before the ball is let loose, then it is considered a pass. They seem to me to apply this rule even when something "should" be a fumble - i.e. giving a lot of benefit of the doubt to the QB. In today's game, the arm started moving forward before the ball came loose, so it was ruled a pass - I was not at all surprised about the ruling, even if it "should" have been a fumble. I don't remember the details of last week's one well enough, though.

I never saw a replay of the whole thing, but did the ball actually move forward in today's game? It wasn't a lateral was it? I kind of doubt it, but I was hoping for a full replay and they never showed it after the challenge, just lots of replays of the ball coming out initially. I actually thought NBC's broadcast today was subpar, with lots of missed chances for replays, odd angles, etc., which was very unexpected considering this was a playoff game.

eriadoc 01-05-2013 08:44 PM

Re: What Constitutes a QB Fumble???
 
Well, as I see it, if the QB has the strength to hold on to the ball and the ball goes forward, it's an incomplete pass. If the QB holds on and re-cocks his arm, it's an incomplete pass no matter where the ball goes.

The rules committee really need to look at that tuck rule.

DocBar 01-05-2013 08:45 PM

Re: What Constitutes a QB Fumble???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by keyser (Post 2098398)
Doc, I don't know the precise rule, but the general thing I understand is that if the arm is moving forward, for whatever reason, before the ball is let loose, then it is considered a pass. They seem to me to apply this rule even when something "should" be a fumble - i.e. giving a lot of benefit of the doubt to the QB. In today's game, the arm started moving forward before the ball came loose, so it was ruled a pass - I was not at all surprised about the ruling, even if it "should" have been a fumble. I don't remember the details of last week's one well enough, though.

I never saw a replay of the whole thing, but did the ball actually move forward in today's game? It wasn't a lateral was it? I kind of doubt it, but I was hoping for a full replay and they never showed it after the challenge, just lots of replays of the ball coming out initially. I actually thought NBC's broadcast today was subpar, with lots of missed chances for replays, odd angles, etc., which was very unexpected considering this was a playoff game.

Dalton's arm was moving backwards when he was hit by Barwin. Barwin caused Dalton's arm to go forward.

Big Lou 01-05-2013 08:47 PM

Re: What Constitutes a QB Fumble???
 
I think the problem was the camera angles. I don't think their were any views where the ref could see the ball coming out before the forward motion. The best angle had a Texans head in the way.

JCTexan 01-05-2013 08:51 PM

Re: What Constitutes a QB Fumble???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NCTexan (Post 2098375)
Playing off this, if they had ruled it a fumble what would of happened since it was blown dead?

I believe it would have been Houston's ball. Bradie James clearly recovered the ball.

NCTexan 01-05-2013 08:52 PM

Re: What Constitutes a QB Fumble???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JCTexan (Post 2098429)
I believe it would have been Houston's ball. Bradie James clearly recovered the ball.

Thanks! Wasn't sure since it was blown before it was recovered.

NitroGSXR 01-05-2013 08:56 PM

Re: What Constitutes a QB Fumble???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DocBar (Post 2098386)
He had control until Barwin hit his arm! That means fumble.

He had enough control to propel it forward. The ball flew a fair number of yards.

DocBar 01-05-2013 09:11 PM

Re: What Constitutes a QB Fumble???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NitroGSXR (Post 2098447)
He had enough control to propel it forward. The ball flew a fair number of yards.

BARWIN propelled that ball forward from his hit. Rewatch the replay, if you can find it.

NitroGSXR 01-05-2013 09:13 PM

Re: What Constitutes a QB Fumble???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DocBar (Post 2098498)
BARWIN propelled that ball forward from his hit. Rewatch the replay, if you can find it.

I stand by my comments.

powda 01-05-2013 09:15 PM

Re: What Constitutes a QB Fumble???
 
Win or lose I thought it was a good challenge for once. I dont care if the arm went forward ... I care about the ball and want to see a few more replays.

powda 01-05-2013 09:27 PM

Re: What Constitutes a QB Fumble???
 
At what point did the qb lose the ball? If his arm wasn't going forward its a fumble. If the ball wasn't going forward without being touched by another player that's pretty telling...

ajohnson80 01-05-2013 09:29 PM

Re: What Constitutes a QB Fumble???
 
Luck fumbled. Dalton did not.


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