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-   -   This is a pretty lousy rule which.... (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97561)

ziggy29 01-05-2013 06:49 PM

This is a pretty lousy rule which....
 
...COULD have cost the Texans the game. It didn't turn out to make a difference, but it could have.

Texans lead the Bengals 19-13 with 2:40 to play. Texans have the ball 3rd and 2 and the Bengals are out of time outs.

Houston completes a pass over the middle for the first down. That should allow enough time to pass until the two minute warning where the Texans probably wouldn't even have to run a play. With a 1st down, 2:00 to play and no Bengals time outs, you can basically run the clock out.

But the Bengals were flagged for a helmet to helmet hit with about 2:30 to play. Yes, it gave Houston 15 yards but it also stopped the clock which wouldn't resume until the ball was snapped. So instead of hitting the two minute warning with a 1st down, the Texans reached it on 2nd down.

So the penalty basically traded 15 yards for an extra timeout. Because of the penalty, the Texans couldn't run the clock out without getting another first down (which they did). But if they didn't, the Bengals would get the ball back -- and the helmet-to-helmet penalty will have benefited the offending team since it gives them a chance they wouldn't have had without the penalty.

That seems pretty rotten to me. I don't see why, in that situation, that the clock shouldn't start running when the ball is respotted and the play clock then starts to tick. Defensive penalties should not be allowed to stop the clock on a play where the clock would otherwise continue to run, especially in the last 5 minutes when the defensive team is out of timeouts.

qqert 01-05-2013 06:51 PM

Re: This is a pretty lousy rule which....
 
can you explain it.. like to a 5th grader.

76Texan 01-05-2013 06:52 PM

Re: This is a pretty lousy rule which....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggy29 (Post 2098095)
...COULD have cost the Texans the game. It didn't turn out to make a difference, but it could have.

Texans lead the Bengals 19-13 with 2:40 to play. Texans have the ball 3rd and 2 and the Bengals are out of time outs.

Houston completes a pass over the middle for the first down. That should allow enough time to pass until the two minute warning where the Texans probably wouldn't even have to run a play. With a 1st down, 2:00 to play and no Bengals time outs, you can basically run the clock out.

But the Bengals were flagged for a helmet to helmet hit with about 2:30 to play. Yes, it gave Houston 15 yards but it also stopped the clock which wouldn't resume until the ball was snapped. So instead of hitting the two minute warning with a 1st down, the Texans reached it on 2nd down.

So the penalty basically traded 15 yards for an extra timeout. Because of the penalty, the Texans couldn't run the clock out without getting another first down (which they did). But if they didn't, the Bengals would get the ball back -- and the helmet-to-helmet penalty will have benefited the offending team since it gives them a chance they wouldn't have had without the penalty.

That seems pretty rotten to me. I don't see why, in that situation, that the clock shouldn't start running when the ball is respotted and the play clock then starts to tick. Defensive penalties should not be allowed to stop the clock on a play where the clock would otherwise continue to run, especially in the last 5 minutes when the defensive team is out of timeouts.

Agree.

ziggy29 01-05-2013 06:54 PM

Re: This is a pretty lousy rule which....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by qqert (Post 2098104)
can you explain it.. like to a 5th grader.

Try this: The Bengals committing a helmet-to-helmet penalty stopped the clock and forced the Texans to convert another first down which would not have been necessary if the penalty was not committed. So the penalty helped the offending team more than it hurt them. I don't think sending a message to go for a player's head after giving up a crucial first down is the right one.

mariowillshine15 01-05-2013 06:58 PM

Re: This is a pretty lousy rule which....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ziggy29 (Post 2098121)
Try this: The Bengals committing a helmet-to-helmet penalty stopped the clock and forced the Texans to convert another first down which would not have been necessary if the penalty was not committed. So the penalty helped the offending team more than it hurt them. I don't think sending a message to go for a player's head after giving up a crucial first down is the right one.

Yeah. It also seemed they had a player hurt after a big first down. 2 or 3 times i believe. The players always came back into the game.

qqert 01-05-2013 07:00 PM

Re: This is a pretty lousy rule which....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mariowillshine15 (Post 2098136)
Yeah. It also seemed they had a player hurt after a big first down. 2 or 3 times i believe. The players always came back into the game.

why were cincy stalling? it didnt look like they were tired it was early in game too!

mariowillshine15 01-05-2013 07:03 PM

Re: This is a pretty lousy rule which....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by qqert (Post 2098147)
why were cincy stalling? it didnt look like they were tired it was early in game too!

To break our momentum. Like in college when a player on D fakes an injury to slow down a fast paced offense.

qqert 01-05-2013 07:04 PM

Re: This is a pretty lousy rule which....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mariowillshine15 (Post 2098168)
To break our momentum. Like in college when a player on D fakes an injury to slow down a fast paced offense.

we need to do that to brady.

ziggy29 01-05-2013 07:05 PM

Re: This is a pretty lousy rule which....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by qqert (Post 2098147)
why were cincy stalling? it didnt look like they were tired it was early in game too!

Time "honored" way to disrupt the rhythm of a hurry-up offense and give your defense a pause to catch its breath.

dc_txtech 01-05-2013 07:08 PM

Re: This is a pretty lousy rule which....
 
I would assume that Kubiak could have declined the penalty and kept the clock running.

ziggy29 01-05-2013 07:13 PM

Re: This is a pretty lousy rule which....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_txtech (Post 2098192)
I would assume that Kubiak could have declined the penalty and kept the clock running.

Maybe -- but it still wouldn't have made a difference in this case. NFL rules allow 40 seconds on the play clock when the clock continues to run from the end of the previous play -- but 25 seconds after the clock is stopped and then restarted.

If the penalty didn't happen, there would have been 40 seconds ticked off while the clock ran -- enough to get to the two minute warning without running a play. If what you say is correct (I'd have to double check the rules) it still would have only allowed the Texans to run off 25 seconds after the clock stoppage -- not enough to get to the two minute warning since there was more than 2:25 left in the quarter -- and they still had to run a play. Either way you have to run one play before the 2:00 warning so you might as well take the 15 yards. But it's still a case where the defense is helped by committing a personal foul.

Texn4life 01-05-2013 07:18 PM

Re: This is a pretty lousy rule which....
 
Yeah, it's a rule they definitely need to look at. Essentially because of the penalty they would have gotten the ball back with about 30 seconds if they had stopped us, but would have had pretty much no time left without the penalty.


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