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-   -   Saturday is a Referendum of Matt Schaub and Gary Kubiak's Careers Here in Houston (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97508)

Jules Winnfield 01-04-2013 01:26 AM

Saturday is a Referendum of Matt Schaub and Gary Kubiak's Careers Here in Houston
 
This it.

This is what Matt Schaub has been waiting for. This is what Gary Kubiak has been waiting for. This is what the haters have been waiting for. This is what the loyal fans bless yalls hearts have been waiting for.

All the ugly criticisms of their careers have been brought up these past few weeks. From Schaub never played in a playoff game, cant win a big game, Kubiak's conservative nature, no confidence, this that all the negative crap about them... They have a chance to prove a lot of people wrong. They also have a chance to prove a lot of people right.

This is the biggest game in franchise history.

Not some meaningless out of division middle of the season over hyped game vs New England. I never quite understood that. Why would they call that the biggest in history? And they even augmented that situation by using letterman jackets and proceeded to get thumped like high schoolers.

I say both because they are tied to each other. They are the loyal President and embattled field general. No Kubiak in houston means no Schaub in Houston. This is their movie and they have to finish it. Management has made their bed and now they have sleep in it. They will ride and die with kubiak and schaub.

Nobody expects us to beat Tom Brady in New England.

That's ok.

What's not ok is another tank job against a Bengal team that we can beat. We have our flaws ( right offensive line, injuries, joe marciano, play calling, schaub) but we are still 12-4. We are division champions. We have talent. We have 8 pro bowlers.

I hope this game gives everyone involved from the front office, the media, the fans whether you are pro or against kubiak and schaub....

some sense of closure and finality. Whether we continue in this path or we start the process of making change.

C Madd 01-04-2013 01:40 AM

Re: Saturday is a Referendum of Matt Schaub and Gary Kubiak's Careers Here in Houston
 
I just hope Schaub is the one carrying a wallet that says Bad Mother ****er during the playoffs this year.

Showtime100 01-04-2013 01:48 AM

Re: Saturday is a Referendum of Matt Schaub and Gary Kubiak's Careers Here in Houston
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield (Post 2096106)

This is the biggest game in franchise history.

Aah rats. I thought we had a shot until you said that. :overreact:

(kidding, but...well......let's just say I was kidding :D)

I see the join date, welcome to the board! Be prepared for some vile posts shot in every direction on the GameDay thread come Saturday...lol :D

Norg 01-04-2013 02:13 AM

Re: Saturday is a Referendum of Matt Schaub and Gary Kubiak's Careers Here in Houston
 
cant wait to know all there is to know about this team

u think if schaub plays bad we start looking for a new QB this off season ..????

Premier 01-04-2013 05:31 AM

Re: Saturday is a Referendum of Matt Schaub and Gary Kubiak's Careers Here in Houston
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Norg (Post 2096117)
cant wait to know all there is to know about this team

u think if schaub plays bad we start looking for a new QB this off season ..????

if this were guaranteed, i would prefer this actually over beating the bengals then inevitably getting slaughtered in foxborough only to go through all this again next year..

Surreal McCoy 01-04-2013 06:47 AM

Re: Saturday is a Referendum of Matt Schaub and Gary Kubiak's Careers Here in Houston
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Premier (Post 2096131)
if this were guaranteed, i would prefer this actually over beating the bengals then inevitably getting slaughtered in foxborough only to go through all this again next year..

And yet another Texan fan hoping we lose. FFS

Runner 01-04-2013 07:22 AM

Re: Saturday is a Referendum of Matt Schaub and Gary Kubiak's Careers Here in Houston
 
I couldn't disagree more. All the statement games, biggest games in team history, referendums on Kubiak, etc, have been played before. The last time the Texans ended a regular season in such disappointing fashion Mcnair extended Kubiak because he was "on the right track", and he was doubly sure about it because the other owners told him so. It was assured that continuing to follow the right path would result in a juggernaut in two or three years.

Well, two or three years later not much has changed. The Kubiak led Texans still blow the big games (for home field advantage this time), but they were Incrementally closer again. In two or three more years it is assured Kubiak will have this thing figured out, and the Texans will be a juggernaut. Right? Right?

I don't think the Bengals game means a thing to Kubiak's future here.

Surreal McCoy 01-04-2013 07:27 AM

Re: Saturday is a Referendum of Matt Schaub and Gary Kubiak's Careers Here in Houston
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Runner (Post 2096149)
I couldn't disagree more. All the statement games, biggest games in team history, referendums on Kubiak, etc, have been played before. The last time the Texans ended a regular season in such disappointing fashion Mcnair extended Kubiak because he was "on the right track", and he was doubly sure about it because the other owners told him so. It was assured that continuing to follow the right path would result in a juggernaut in two or three years.

Well, two or three years later not much has changed. The Kubiak led Texans still blow the big games (for home field advantage this time), but they were Incrementally closer again. In two or three more years it is assured Kubiak will have this thing figured out, and the Texans will be a juggernaut. Right? Right?

I don't think the Bengals game means a thing to Kubiak's future here.

If ever an endorsement for maintaining course was made...

Maddict5 01-04-2013 07:36 AM

Re: Saturday is a Referendum of Matt Schaub and Gary Kubiak's Careers Here in Houston
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Runner (Post 2096149)
I couldn't disagree more. All the statement games, biggest games in team history, referendums on Kubiak, etc, have been played before. The last time the Texans ended a regular season in such disappointing fashion Mcnair extended Kubiak because he was "on the right track", and he was doubly sure about it because the other owners told him so. It was assured that continuing to follow the right path would result in a juggernaut in two or three years.

Well, two or three years later not much has changed. The Kubiak led Texans still blow the big games (for home field advantage this time), but they were Incrementally closer again. In two or three more years it is assured Kubiak will have this thing figured out, and the Texans will be a juggernaut. Right? Right?

I don't think the Bengals game means a thing to Kubiak's future here.

actually the last time the texans finished in such disappointing circumstances, they balled out in the playoffs v cincy and the ravens. the only reason they lost in baltimore was that they had a rookie 5th rd qb starting

btw since that dummy mcnair said 'the right track' comment, the texans have gone 22-10... but funny how the masses that flamed him at the time he said it never seem to bring that up

before i even clicked on this thread, i was curious how the anti-kubes/schaub brigade would twist it so its only a referendum if they lose....cos y'know if they win, they've already lost all those HUGE reg season games :rolleyes:

Surreal McCoy 01-04-2013 07:40 AM

Re: Saturday is a Referendum of Matt Schaub and Gary Kubiak's Careers Here in Houston
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddict5 (Post 2096156)
actually the last time the texans finished in such disappointing circumstances, they balled out in the playoffs v cincy and the ravens. the only reason they lost in baltimore was that they had a rookie 5th rd qb starting

btw since that dummy mcnair said 'the right track' comment, the texans have gone 22-10... but funny how the masses that flamed him at the time he said it never seem to bring that up

before i even clicked on this thread, i was curious how the anti-kubes/schaub brigade would twist it so its only a referendum if they lose....cos y'know if they win, they've already lost all those HUGE reg season games :rolleyes:

And they'll lose the next one, which is the one that really counts :thinking:

buddyboy 01-04-2013 07:51 AM

Re: Saturday is a Referendum of Matt Schaub and Gary Kubiak's Careers Here in Houston
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Runner (Post 2096149)
I couldn't disagree more. All the statement games, biggest games in team history, referendums on Kubiak, etc, have been played before. The last time the Texans ended a regular season in such disappointing fashion Mcnair extended Kubiak because he was "on the right track", and he was doubly sure about it because the other owners told him so. It was assured that continuing to follow the right path would result in a juggernaut in two or three years.

Well, two or three years later not much has changed. The Kubiak led Texans still blow the big games (for home field advantage this time), but they were Incrementally closer again. In two or three more years it is assured Kubiak will have this thing figured out, and the Texans will be a juggernaut. Right? Right?

I don't think the Bengals game means a thing to Kubiak's future here.

For all that's been made of how QBs, or even teams as a whole perform in the playoffs, the success of players like Rogers and Brady to the failures of players like Matt Ryan, this is the FIRST time Kubiak and Schaub have been to the playoffs.

To say all the referendums and statement games have been played is inaccurate; this is the game Houston hasn't seen yet. If they fall flat on their faces, we'll know for sure. Who cares if we ended the season flat? If they come out on fire in the playoffs and make a deep playoff run (or even go SB?), who here will really say that the regular season games are the referendum, NOT the playoff games?

Thorn 01-04-2013 07:58 AM

Re: Saturday is a Referendum of Matt Schaub and Gary Kubiak's Careers Here in Houston
 
Kubiak and Matt Schaub aren't going anywhere. They'll both be back next season. And then the Texans will try it all over again.

While I don't exactly like the situation, it's better to be a Texans fan than a fan of most teams in the NFL. We are built to make the playoffs for a while. Now we can piss and moan about the fact we might not get very far in the playoffs (which I will probably be doing with a lot of folks in here) but at least we are in the playoffs. That's a hell of a lot more than fans of some teams can say.

Runner 01-04-2013 08:15 AM

Re: Saturday is a Referendum of Matt Schaub and Gary Kubiak's Careers Here in Houston
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddict5 (Post 2096156)
actually the last time the texans finished in such disappointing circumstances, they balled out in the playoffs v cincy and the ravens. the only reason they lost in baltimore was that they had a rookie 5th rd qb starting

btw since that dummy mcnair said 'the right track' comment, the texans have gone 22-10... but funny how the masses that flamed him at the time he said it never seem to bring that up

before i even clicked on this thread, i was curious how the anti-kubes/schaub brigade would twist it so its only a referendum if they lose....cos y'know if they win, they've already lost all those HUGE reg season games :rolleyes:

Last year's regular season ending wasn't "disappointing" to me, given the serious injury issues with players such as Schaub and Dre.

As far as "twisting it so it's only a referendum if they lose", I believe I was clear that it wasn't a referendum at all, one way or the other:

"I don't think the Bengal's game means a thing to Kubiak's future here".

I would say my words were the ones twisted to meet an agenda, but since it sounds like you were looking for something from the "anti-Kubes/Schaub brigade" my post fit your needs. People also might note that I haven't blamed anything on Schaub this season, so I don't fit in that broad brush stroke either.

2012Champs 01-04-2013 08:22 AM

Re: Saturday is a Referendum of Matt Schaub and Gary Kubiak's Careers Here in Houston
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorn (Post 2096180)
Kubiak and Matt Schaub aren't going anywhere. They'll both be back next season. And then the Texans will try it all over again.


This is 100% spot on. Im not sure if people are letting their emotion overtake them but Matt and Gary will both be back no matter what happens the rest of the season.

thunderkyss 01-04-2013 08:35 AM

Re: Saturday is a Referendum of Matt Schaub and Gary Kubiak's Careers Here in Houston
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Runner (Post 2096149)
The last time the Texans ended a regular season in such disappointing fashion Mcnair extended Kubiak because he was "on the right track", and he was doubly sure about it because the other owners told him so. It was assured that continuing to follow the right path would result in a juggernaut in two or three years.

well, if Maddict5's numbers are right (22-10), I think the Juggernaut thing is about right, but I don't remember anyone assuring you of anything, much less two or three years.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Runner (Post 2096149)
Well, two or three years later not much has changed. The Kubiak led Texans still blow the big games (for home field advantage this time), but they were Incrementally closer again. In two or three more years it is assured Kubiak will have this thing figured out, and the Texans will be a juggernaut. Right? Right?

I don't think the Bengals game means a thing to Kubiak's future here.

Not much has changed? Being that we were on the right track, I guess that's technically correct.

We are the newest team in the league. Have you ever thought to compare where we are to where the other new teams are?

Cleveland.... who's better? Them or us?

Carolina..... Jacksonville? Who's better. Those teams may have had more success than we have so far, but where are they now?

Quote:

The Jags made the playoffs in four of their first five seasons and went to the AFC Championship Game twice. They’ve missed the playoffs in 9 of 11 seasons since. Meanwhile, the Panthers went to the NFC Championship Game in their second season. In 14 seasons since, they’ve made the playoffs just three times.

Runner 01-04-2013 09:25 AM

Re: Saturday is a Referendum of Matt Schaub and Gary Kubiak's Careers Here in Houston
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiddler (Post 2096200)
well, if Maddict5's numbers are right (22-10), I think the Juggernaut thing is about right, but I don't remember anyone assuring you of anything, much less two or three years.




Not much has changed? Being that we were on the right track, I guess that's technically correct.

We are the newest team in the league. Have you ever thought to compare where we are to where the other new teams are?

Cleveland.... who's better? Them or us?

Carolina..... Jacksonville? Who's better. Those teams may have had more success than we have so far, but where are they now?

Now we get into the realm of unwinnable what-if arguments. 22-10 sounds great. Some Kubiak supporters believe a coaching change would lead to a worse record than that; others think a coaching change would end the "incremental" part of the improvement, get the team over the hump, and lead to a better record. Since either is just a belief, the 22-10 number doesn't prove anything besides we've done well while consistently coming up short of some expectations.

As far as comparing the Texans to other teams, I frequently saw the slow and steady approach compared to the Steelers, the Patriots, and occasionally the Landry Cowboys. Seeing the results of the approach compared to the Browns and Jaguars doesn't convince me it is the best and only way to achieve success.

==============

About expectations. When the season started, I didn't think the Texans were Super Bowl contenders this year for three reasons. First, I thought they lost too much talent last year due to the cap induced cuts and a mitigation plan of "next man up" and counting on a superb draft didn't seem to be enough. We lost too much talent and depth from last year's squad.

Next, I did not think Dre would come back strong this year because of the injuries. He was a very pleasant surprise to me, and his production certainly helped the Texans raise their regular season record a bit higher than I thought it would be. I did always believe the Texans would win their division.

Finally, I don't think Kubiak is the coach to lead the team to the next level. Not much needs to be said on this oft debated subject. I think his approach has become stale, and the players aren't responding anymore. I believe the team is starting to regress, but that regression was hidden a little because of the schedule the Texans had this year.

I took a lot of flak over this reasoning in the beginning of the season, especially the first point.

================

I am disappointed in the Texans because they are satisfied with taking half steps every year, because I see even that progression stopping and falling back. I'd like to see the organization attempt to take a couple of big steps and reach the ultimate goal rather than trust that they will always get a little better each season with no risk of falling back.

Not everyone shares this viewpoint, and I understand that. However, the fact that I don't have a Panglossian view that the Texans are the best they could possibly be doesn't make me a knee-jerk, mouth breathing, bad fan, hater either.*


*I just threw in the "mouth breathing" part for color. I don't think I've actually been called that here. :)

b0ng 01-04-2013 09:39 AM

Re: Saturday is a Referendum of Matt Schaub and Gary Kubiak's Careers Here in Houston
 
I don't understand how some people can actively root for the team to lose it's third ever playoff game so that hopefully x, y or z will happen. That would be like Vikings fans hoping they lose out of the playoffs because they wouldn't want to win a SB with Ponder at the QB. It's dumb.

thunderkyss 01-04-2013 10:04 AM

Re: Saturday is a Referendum of Matt Schaub and Gary Kubiak's Careers Here in Houston
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Runner (Post 2096220)
As far as comparing the Texans to other teams, I frequently saw the slow and steady approach compared to the Steelers, the Patriots, and occasionally the Landry Cowboys. Seeing the results of the approach compared to the Browns and Jaguars doesn't convince me it is the best and only way to achieve success.

The way I look at it... If you were to start a new car company today, how long would it be before your sales matched GM, Ford, & Chrysler in the U.S. ? Keep in mind, that the Japanese have been making cars almost as long as the big three. They've been selling cars in the US since the 70s, & only recently have they equaled or surpassed their sales.

That's the same way I see this. You're not going to start a franchise today & win a Super Bowl in 10 years. It's never been done before, expecting the Texans to do it is just not realistic.

As far as being the best or only way to do it, I mentioned in another thread that there were 10 head coaching changes in 2006. Bills, Lions, Packers, Texans, Chiefs, Vikings, Saints, Jets, Raiders, Rams.

Of those teams, only the Packers, Texans, & Saints have those coaches hired in 2006. Whether you want to believe it or not, we're closer to the Packers & Saints than the Bills, Lions, Chiefs, Vikings, Jets, Raiders, & Rams. Only the Jets have had more success than we have over that time & imo, only the Vikings are close to what we've got.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Runner (Post 2096220)
==============

About expectations. When the season started, I didn't think the Texans were Super Bowl contenders this year

I took a lot of flak over this reasoning in the beginning of the season, especially the first point.

Strange, I think your reasoning was sound. The only reason people would have had to think we were contenders is because of what we did in 2011 without Schaub.

However, here we are... looking like contenders for most of the season, but I think most were probably just as surprised as you even if they didn't say as much.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Runner (Post 2096220)
================

I am disappointed in the Texans because they are satisfied with taking half steps every year...

because I see even that progression stopping and falling back. I'd like to see the organization attempt to take a couple of big steps and reach the ultimate goal rather than trust that they will always get a little better each season with no risk of falling back.

What do you base this on? You're not satisfied, but you're still here. You didn't quit on us & get another team. Just because Kubiak isn't fired doesn't mean they are satisfied. It only means they don't believe the reasons for the "incremental" steps are the same as what you believe them to be.

Upset because we didn't make a run at Peyton?

Nobody does everything 100% right every time, all the time. I'm sure some things didn't go the way the Texans planned. They expected the cap to go up. It didn't & they had to lose Winston. Not acceptable, but not worth firing Rick Smith over. That's baby with bath water talk. Any argument to get rid of Rick Smith or Gary Kubiak is baby & bath water talk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runner (Post 2096220)
Not everyone shares this viewpoint, and I understand that. However, the fact that I don't have a Panglossian view that the Texans are the best they could possibly be doesn't make me a knee-jerk, mouth breathing, bad fan, hater either.*


*I just threw in the "mouth breathing" part for color. I don't think I've actually been called that here. :)

I don't like Gary Kubiak. I don't think the offense has pulled it's weight at all this season. We've been "talking" about the offense since week 1 vs Miami. I think we should have won both the Minnesota & Indy games. I think our performance against GreenBay & New England is unacceptable.

But like you, I'm not an ******* about it & say stupid scht that makes less sense than the way our team is playing.

Playoffs 01-04-2013 10:19 AM

Re: Saturday is a Referendum of Matt Schaub and Gary Kubiak's Careers Here in Houston
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield (Post 2096106)
a Referendum

So it's like an election, then? As long as it not th'....

nope, don't say it,

not the "thing"

do not,

no,

stop...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jules Winnfield (Post 2096106)
...the biggest game in franchise history.

Dun, Da, Dunnn.....
Arrrrrggghhh!!!!!!!!!!!!
.........................:firehair: :firehair: :firehair:

.......................................:firehair: :firehair: :firehair:

kiwitexansfan 01-04-2013 11:40 AM

Re: Saturday is a Referendum of Matt Schaub and Gary Kubiak's Careers Here in Houston
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Premier (Post 2096131)
if this were guaranteed, i would prefer this actually over beating the bengals then inevitably getting slaughtered in foxborough only to go through all this again next year..

Sick of 12 win seasons and pro bowl QBs already?


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