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-   -   Who knew Garrett Graham was that Important to our Offense ? (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96915)

IDEXAN 12-13-2012 07:40 AM

Who knew Garrett Graham was that Important to our Offense ?
 
(on missing TE Garrett Graham on the field) “Obviously (TE) Garrett (Graham) has done a great job and we missed him the other night. Hoping to have him back. Like we said, anytime you have a guy that’s done well in your system, the more hands out you can have, he does great things in our packages. He’s a physical player, he does well on the line of scrimmage, but he can also beat man (coverage). He’s scored. He’s done things. He’s been a vital cog. If we get him back, the better off we’re going to be.”
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/ar...6-e087ba8ba43a
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With Graham out I thought we'd just plug Casey into Graham's position as the #2 TE and go with the new guy at FB, but here's Kubiak talking like Graham is a really integral part of our offense ?
And now I'm beginning to appreciate just how important Joel Dreessen was last year to the Texans - he's having an outstanding season with the Broncos as their #1 TE.

deucetx 12-13-2012 07:59 AM

Re: Who knew Garrett Graham was that Important to our Offense ?
 
I think some folks are so hung up on Dressen that they sell Graham short. His season has been rather good. For instance on PFF numbers compared to Dressen currently:

Graham:

Overall among TE #11
Run blocking #9
Pass blocking #10

Joel Dressen

Overall among TE #8
Run blocking #14
Pass blocking #1

Their receiving numbers are nearly identitical and neither is the first TE passing option for their team:

Graham:

25 receptions 243 yards 78.1 catch% 3 TD's 2 Drops

Dressen:

34 receptions 283 yards 72.3 catch % 5 TD's 3 Drops

So pretty similar other than receptions but of course the Broncs sling it out like there is no tomorrow. Have to admit I was surprised how effective Graham has been. Love O.D. but to be honest the guy can't block to save his life....or anyone running behind him lol.

thunderkyss 12-13-2012 08:19 AM

Re: Who knew Garrett Graham was that Important to our Offense ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IDEXAN (Post 2078099)
With Graham out I thought we'd just plug Casey into Graham's position as the #2 TE and go with the new guy at FB, but here's Kubiak talking like Graham is a really integral part of our offense ?
And now I'm beginning to appreciate just how important Joel Dreessen was last year to the Texans - he's having an outstanding season with the Broncos as their #1 TE.

I think Kubiak had a good plan, bringing in an extra tackle. But that does limit our offense, the defense "knows" he isn't going to release into the pattern.

But I think Gardner simply failed. He couldn't handle the outside rush. Imagine that, a freak'n tackle can't handle the outside rush. & he was not affective in the run game... again, imagine that.

qqert 12-13-2012 08:19 AM

Re: Who knew Garrett Graham was that Important to our Offense ?
 
kubes likes to run two tight end schemes/plays, and i guess that limited his play calling when graham was out.

still, it doesnt explain how poorly the offensive plays were planned.

running game was stuffed. and even then he still kept calling same plays.
throw it out wide to arian for a change, instead of running it up the middle!

thunderkyss 12-13-2012 08:23 AM

Re: Who knew Garrett Graham was that Important to our Offense ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by qqert (Post 2078124)
kubes likes to run two tight end schemes/plays, and i guess that limited his play calling when graham was out.

still, it doesnt explain how poorly the offensive plays were planned.

running game was stuffed. and even then he still kept calling same plays.
throw it out wide to arian for a change, instead of running it up the middle!

I don't think we ran it up the middle as often as many are making it out to be. The offensive line was getting blown up, up the middle & our RB never had a chance to get outside.

I really doubt we had any runs "planned" to go between the guards.

DexmanC 12-13-2012 08:24 AM

Re: Who knew Garrett Graham was that Important to our Offense ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by qqert (Post 2078124)
kubes likes to run two tight end schemes/plays, and i guess that limited his play calling when graham was out.

still, it doesnt explain how poorly the offensive plays were planned.

running game was stuffed. and even then he still kept calling same plays.
throw it out wide to arian for a change, instead of running it up the middle!

Reminds me of when Kubiak would stubbornly spend 3 downs trying to
run at Albert Haynesworth with Steve Slaton. Gotta love Kubes.

Tailgate 12-13-2012 08:26 AM

Re: Who knew Garrett Graham was that Important to our Offense ?
 
I was worried about his injury all last week. Did anyone else notice Dilfer picked the Texans to win and for 2 days right up till kickoff kept saying it was because we love to use 2 TE sets and that is a major weakness for NE? I was like dude, Graham is a no go bro.

thunderkyss 12-13-2012 08:39 AM

Re: Who knew Garrett Graham was that Important to our Offense ?
 
The Patriots have 5 TEs on their roster

Gronk
Hernandez
Hoomanawanui
Schiancoe
Fells

& a Full back on their roster.

We have 2 TEs & 2 FBs

But TEs are as important to our team as theirs.... I think they were number 2 in 2 TE sets.

They have 7 LBs & 4 DEs We've only got 6 LBs

I bring that up, because we both run hybrid 3-4s & their DEs are LBs Ninkovich & Scott played standing up for much of the game.

Why are our rosters not similar?

IDEXAN 12-13-2012 08:55 AM

Re: Who knew Garrett Graham was that Important to our Offense ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tailgate (Post 2078128)
I was worried about his injury all last week. Did anyone else notice Dilfer picked the Texans to win and for 2 days right up till kickoff kept saying it was because we love to use 2 TE sets and that is a major weakness for NE? I was like dude, Graham is a no go bro.

But maybe Dilfer thought as I did that in Graham's absense the Texans could just plug-in Casey ?
But on decisions re the TE situation in the just past off season, I think we'd have been better off keeping Dreessen and releasing OD. I know that's cold because I like OD to, but while an excellent pass-catching TE, OD just can't block like Dreessen does.

Tailgate 12-13-2012 09:00 AM

Re: Who knew Garrett Graham was that Important to our Offense ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IDEXAN (Post 2078138)
But maybe Dilfer thought as I did that in Graham's absense the Texans could just plug-in Casey ?
But on decisions re the TE situation in the just past off season, I think we'd have been better off keeping Dreessen and releasing OD. I know that's cold because I like OD to, but while an excellent pass-catching TE, OD just can't block like Dreessen does.

We let Dreessen go, Demeco go, and the right side of our O-line go, along with our FB 2 yrs ago. I know I know, I get it... I do. But its really no wonder what our major weaknesses are now.

IDEXAN 12-13-2012 09:11 AM

Re: Who knew Garrett Graham was that Important to our Offense ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tailgate (Post 2078141)
We let Dreessen go, Demeco go, and the right side of our O-line go, along with our FB 2 yrs ago. I know I know, I get it... I do. But its really no wonder what our major weaknesses are now.

But in the case of keeping Dreessen over OD, we could probably have had a net savings in cap-space.

76Texan 12-13-2012 09:27 AM

Re: Who knew Garrett Graham was that Important to our Offense ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IDEXAN (Post 2078150)
But in the case of keeping Dreessen over OD, we could probably have had a net savings in cap-space.

Nope!

Kubiak loves Dreessen, but we couldn't afford to match his new contract.
We might even have to offer him a better contract since he's going home to Colorado.

He received a $2.5M signing bonus and a base salary of $1M this year.

We just don't have that much in cap room and extra budget for another TE.

We gave OD a $3M signing bonus just last year when we re-upped him.
Why would we want to cut him and waste even more investment money up front?

If we cut OD., we still don't have anybody to replace him when Graham gets injured.

76Texan 12-13-2012 09:32 AM

Re: Who knew Garrett Graham was that Important to our Offense ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by deucetx (Post 2078107)
I think some folks are so hung up on Dressen that they sell Graham short. His season has been rather good. For instance on PFF numbers compared to Dressen currently:

Graham:

Overall among TE #11
Run blocking #9
Pass blocking #10

Joel Dressen

Overall among TE #8
Run blocking #14
Pass blocking #1

Their receiving numbers are nearly identitical and neither is the first TE passing option for their team:

Graham:

25 receptions 243 yards 78.1 catch% 3 TD's 2 Drops

Dressen:

34 receptions 283 yards 72.3 catch % 5 TD's 3 Drops

So pretty similar other than receptions but of course the Broncs sling it out like there is no tomorrow. Have to admit I was surprised how effective Graham has been. Love O.D. but to be honest the guy can't block to save his life....or anyone running behind him lol.

From what I observe, the most consistent blockers on our line are Myers and Graham; D. Brown is third.

O.D. is important in our scheme though.

He already has almost as many catches as last year (52 vs 54) and 622 yards (vs 677). He's already doubled his TD total to 6.

Everlong 12-13-2012 09:34 AM

Re: Who knew Garrett Graham was that Important to our Offense ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiddler (Post 2078132)
The Patriots have 5 TEs on their roster

Gronk
Hernandez
Hoomanawanui
Schiancoe
Fells

Schiancoe got released on Monday. They were really only running with 5 because of Gronk and AH missing time. But to your point you need that depth. Fells is nearly as good of a blocker as Gronk just not in the same zip code when it comes to receiving.

GP 12-13-2012 09:57 AM

Re: Who knew Garrett Graham was that Important to our Offense ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 76Texan (Post 2078160)
Nope!

Kubiak loves Dreessen, but we couldn't afford to match his new contract.
We might even have to offer him a better contract since he's going home to Colorado.

He received a $2.5M signing bonus and a base salary of $1M this year.

We just don't have that much in cap room and extra budget for another TE.

We gave OD a $3M signing bonus just last year when we re-upped him.
Why would we want to cut him and waste even more investment money up front?

If we cut OD., we still don't have anybody to replace him when Graham gets injured.

Solid post. There's just no way around the hard truths of NFL cap management.

I really didn't have faith in Graham, btw. Always figured he would be a pretender, a bit under qualified to handle the role here. I was very wrong. The guy is now an integral part of our offense.

This team's offense is just flat out better with two TEs (OD and GG) and Casey at that twiner spot. Period.

El Tejano 12-13-2012 10:05 AM

Re: Who knew Garrett Graham was that Important to our Offense ?
 
It's a horrible excuse.

76Texan 12-13-2012 10:22 AM

Re: Who knew Garrett Graham was that Important to our Offense ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by qqert (Post 2078124)
kubes likes to run two tight end schemes/plays, and i guess that limited his play calling when graham was out.

still, it doesnt explain how poorly the offensive plays were planned.

running game was stuffed. and even then he still kept calling same plays.
throw it out wide to arian for a change, instead of running it up the middle!

We had 39 passing plays and 26 running plays.
That's a very healthy pass/run ratio for a team like the Texans.

76Texan 12-13-2012 10:23 AM

Re: Who knew Garrett Graham was that Important to our Offense ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Everlong (Post 2078166)
Schiancoe got released on Monday. They were really only running with 5 because of Gronk and AH missing time. But to your point you need that depth. Fells is nearly as good of a blocker as Gronk just not in the same zip code when it comes to receiving.

Schianco was listed in the game book as dressed and active.

I think he was released Tuesday???

Rey 12-13-2012 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 76Texan (Post 2078212)
Schianco was listed in the game book as dressed and active.

I think he was released Tuesday???

If I'm not mistaken he was in with their second string o and dropped a pass...

76Texan 12-13-2012 12:12 PM

Re: Who knew Garrett Graham was that Important to our Offense ?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey (Post 2078293)
If I'm not mistaken he was in with their second string o and dropped a pass...

Come to think of it, there's an easy way to check.

Football Outsider snap counts showed him with 12 offensive snaps..

Their Offense only had 8 plays after we pulled the starters (including 3 kneel downs), so he had to be in there much earlier.

And the INT by Keo was a pass thrown to Shianco.
Harris wrapped him up as he caught the ball, and it bounced off his hands for Keo to grab it.


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