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-   -   HWSNBN Historically Revisited (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96794)

CloakNNNdagger 12-09-2012 11:02 AM

HWSNBN Historically Revisited
 
Please refrain from throwing eggs, but with his name being brought up in another TT thread (where he was made to practice with ladders by Chris Palmer), I came across this piece in SI Vault. We know that he never put football in the NFL as a top priority, and that he must take responsibility in large part for his "demise." But, this article, I believe, demonstrates the totally "ignorant" approach from the top down regarding his path to Houston..........We like everything about making you our top pick and the first pick of the Draft........BUT..........We need to change everything about you if you are going to be a great NFL quarterback............

Quote:

September 02, 2002
Take It From The Top, Kid
THOUGH CRITICS QUESTION THE DROP IN HIS THROWING MOTION ROOKIE DAVID CARR HAS THE TEXANS DROOLING OVER HIS ACCURACY AND QUICK RELEASE
Josh Elliott

His name is now buried deeply in a period which most of us long time fans want to appropriately forget. However, this piece serves as a very important historical reminder as to how far we have come from the "good old days."

eriadoc 12-09-2012 02:23 PM

Re: HWSNBN Historically Revisited
 
The David Carr era needs to be divided into two parts, IMO. From the start until about mid-2004, he was a different QB than what he ended up as. That's not to say that was great, but there was potential. I think a combination of injuries (esp. that shoulder) and bad coaching killed whatever potential was there. The work ethic would have killed whatever else there was probably, but we've seen QBs get coached up from that situation before.

HJam72 12-09-2012 02:39 PM

Re: HWSNBN Historically Revisited
 
He'd've been a star if they'd o' just let him audible to passes.

:jk:

Sorry, I had a flash-back or something.

Honoring Earl 34 12-09-2012 03:20 PM

Re: HWSNBN Historically Revisited
 
Chester Pitts said that DC played because he was good not because he loved it . He also had the distraction of the cling ons from Fresno .

CretorFrigg 12-09-2012 03:43 PM

Re: HWSNBN Historically Revisited
 
Maybe I'm just ignorant, but why is an overhand approach preferred? If a defensive lineman wants to swat it down, they're going to be jumping up (a la Watt). Even if the QB was 6'5" and throwing overhand, it would still be swatted down.

Isn't it about finding the passing lanes? That's why short quarterbacks like Drew Brees and Russell Wilson still find success. They can find the passing lanes and still deliver a rocket to their WRs.

infantrycak 12-09-2012 03:43 PM

Re: HWSNBN Historically Revisited
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eriadoc (Post 2074191)
The David Carr era needs to be divided into two parts, IMO. From the start until about mid-2004, he was a different QB than what he ended up as. That's not to say that was great, but there was potential. I think a combination of injuries (esp. that shoulder) and bad coaching killed whatever potential was there. The work ethic would have killed whatever else there was probably, but we've seen QBs get coached up from that situation before.

Carr had some consistent problems throughout his career - poor work ethic, not real football smart, basically blind in between the hashmarks, etc. But there was a dramatic change dead middle of the 2004 season and some of it I think was a new coaching philosophy.

First 8 games - 2162 yds, 270.25 ypg, 8.65 ypa, 9 TD's, 4 INT's
Last 8 games - 1369 yds, 171.12 ypg, 6.34 ypa, 7 TD's, 9 INT's

Plus the long ball just disappeared from his repertoire.

The 9th game of 2004 was against Indy and Carr threw 3 bad INT's - after that it was like the offense shut down.

Honoring Earl 34 12-09-2012 05:19 PM

Re: HWSNBN Historically Revisited
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by infantrycak (Post 2074216)
Carr had some consistent problems throughout his career - poor work ethic, not real football smart, basically blind in between the hashmarks, etc. But there was a dramatic change dead middle of the 2004 season and some of it I think was a new coaching philosophy.

First 8 games - 2162 yds, 270.25 ypg, 8.65 ypa, 9 TD's, 4 INT's
Last 8 games - 1369 yds, 171.12 ypg, 6.34 ypa, 7 TD's, 9 INT's

Plus the long ball just disappeared from his repertoire.

The 9th game of 2004 was against Indy and Carr threw 3 bad INT's - after that it was like the offense shut down.

That was the year where they could have beat the Browns the last game to go 8-8 IIRC , he laid an egg and someone tossed a beer on his wife .

mussop 12-09-2012 07:58 PM

Re: HWSNBN Historically Revisited
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 (Post 2074210)
Chester Pitts said that DC played because he was good not because he loved it . He also had the distraction of the cling ons from Fresno .

I thought cling ons were from Qo'noS. Seriously, I couldn't believe we were drafting Him instead of Peppers and bringing in a veteran QB. Especially when Eli was going to be available in the next draft. Manning vs Manning 2x's a year just seemed like a no brainer to me.

ChampionTexan 12-09-2012 09:23 PM

Re: HWSNBN Historically Revisited
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mussop (Post 2074341)
I thought cling ons were from Qo'noS. Seriously, I couldn't believe we were drafting Him instead of Peppers and bringing in a veteran QB. Especially when Eli was going to be available in the next draft. Manning vs Manning 2x's a year just seemed like a no brainer to me.

Eli was two drafts out, 2003 was Carson Palmer (and Andre of course).

Speedy 12-09-2012 10:49 PM

Re: HWSNBN Historically Revisited
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChampionTexan (Post 2074408)
Eli was two drafts out, 2003 was Carson Palmer (and Andre of course).

And assuming the Texans would have still had the 3rd pick in '03, Palmer wouldn't have been available. They'd be looking at Leftwich, Boller and Grossman if they went QB in year 2.

In '04 however, Roethlisberger would have been sitting there at 10, again assuming that's the position they would still be picking from.

HJam72 12-10-2012 07:34 AM

Re: HWSNBN Historically Revisited
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 (Post 2074279)
That was the year where they could have beat the Browns the last game to go 8-8 IIRC , he laid an egg and someone tossed a beer on his wife .

Only one reason you would still remember that. :foottap: :)

Honoring Earl 34 12-10-2012 11:15 AM

Re: HWSNBN Historically Revisited
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HJam72 (Post 2074571)
Only one reason you would still remember that. :foottap: :)

I wouldn't have wasted a beer and I don't take it that serious . :smiliedance:

Double Barrel 12-10-2012 11:32 AM

Re: HWSNBN Historically Revisited
 
Starting a rookie QB for the first game of a franchise...dumb.

Not giving that rookie QB a QB coach for the first couple of years...dumb.

Not doing the homework to reveal that said rookie QB had horrible study habits...dumb.

Expecting a rookie QB to take a helluva' beating and not develop fright or flight tendencies...dumb.

I have no animosity toward David Carr. That stuff is so buried in the past that it really means nothing to me.

I am thankful for two Carr memories, though: the Cowboys (19-10) game, and that Christmas eve game in 2006 where we finally beat the Colts.

Beyond that....meh...no. 8 belongs to Matt Schaub now, and hopefully that number will hang in the rafters as a retired one because of the glory Schaub brings to this franchise over the next few years.

qqert 12-10-2012 12:00 PM

Re: HWSNBN Historically Revisited
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Double Barrel (Post 2074753)
8 belongs to Matt Schaub now..

alex smith is looking to leave the niners after this season, i think.
would bringing him in to compete for QB be a bad idea?
just like at the other positions where you have to compete for the spot.

thunderkyss 12-10-2012 12:30 PM

Re: HWSNBN Historically Revisited
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by qqert (Post 2074778)
alex smith is looking to leave the niners after this season, i think.
would bringing him in to compete for QB be a bad idea?
just like at the other positions where you have to compete for the spot.

Maybe not a bad idea, but pointless.

Schaub just signed a long term deal. He is the QB of the future until further notice.

I think we are happy with our back up QB situation, may even need to cull a little fat, but we'd be looking to bring in young boys. Kubiak likes to look at young boys every now & then.


I mean arms, young arms.

TexanSam 12-10-2012 12:34 PM

Re: HWSNBN Historically Revisited
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Double Barrel (Post 2074753)
Starting a rookie QB for the first game of a franchise...dumb.

Not giving that rookie QB a QB coach for the first couple of years...dumb.

We didn't have a QB coach after drafting Carr? Please tell me that's not true. If it is, Casserly and Capers were more inept than I thought.

CloakNNNdagger 12-10-2012 01:16 PM

Re: HWSNBN Historically Revisited
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TexanSam (Post 2074794)
We didn't have a QB coach after drafting Carr? Please tell me that's not true. If it is, Casserly and Capers were more inept than I thought.

Chris Palmer was the OC and also acted as the QB coach. AFTER Palmer was dismissed here in 2005, he went immediately onto specifically be QB coach of our favorite Cowboys for 1 year, then for the Giants for 2 more years.

Double Barrel 12-10-2012 03:26 PM

Re: HWSNBN Historically Revisited
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TexanSam (Post 2074794)
We didn't have a QB coach after drafting Carr? Please tell me that's not true. If it is, Casserly and Capers were more inept than I thought.

yep. Like CnD mentioned, Palmer was so egotistical that he did not think a rookie QB behind a Swiss cheese offensive line needed a dedicate position coach.

Quote:

The Texans used their first pick on a guy they believed would be a franchise quarterback, and then they did almost everything wrong. They failed to put a quality offensive line in front of him. They failed to put enough good receivers and running backs around him.

The Texans never even hired a real quarterbacks coach. Here was this strong-armed, raw-boned kid out of Fresno State, this kid with such a good heart, this kid who wanted to do everything right, and much of the incompetence that defined the Texans in those early years can be summed up by their care and handling of Carr.

Source

Lucky 12-12-2012 11:46 PM

Re: HWSNBN Historically Revisited
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by infantrycak (Post 2074216)
First 8 games - 2162 yds, 270.25 ypg, 8.65 ypa, 9 TD's, 4 INT's
Last 8 games - 1369 yds, 171.12 ypg, 6.34 ypa, 7 TD's, 9 INT's

Plus the long ball just disappeared from his repertoire.

The 9th game of 2004 was against Indy and Carr threw 3 bad INT's - after that it was like the offense shut down.

I think the league went to school on how the Colts were defensing Carr (basic cover-2 shell). Playing cover 2 forces the QB to throw to the middle of the field, and Carr was never able to do that consistently. Whether it was his sidearm motion, or that he just couldn't anticipate when a receiver would come open, or both, the cover 2 was Carr's kryptonite.

infantrycak 12-13-2012 09:06 AM

Re: HWSNBN Historically Revisited
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky (Post 2078056)
I think the league went to school on how the Colts were defensing Carr (basic cover-2 shell). Playing cover 2 forces the QB to throw to the middle of the field, and Carr was never able to do that consistently. Whether it was his sidearm motion, or that he just couldn't anticipate when a receiver would come open, or both, the cover 2 was Carr's kryptonite.

Carr was always miserable to the middle of the field. Teams already had 2 years of tape on him when 2004 started. I am not making excuses for Carr as I believe he was never going to make it but I think there was a coaching philosophy change as well.


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