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-   -   Defense question....? (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95417)

Cjeremy635 10-15-2012 09:59 AM

Defense question....?
 
I didn't want to start a whole other thread, but it seemed like the majority of the threads were targeting a specific player.

My question is what was the issue with the playcalling on the D? Not so much in regards to the scheme (although that sucked), but mainly with getting it out to the players. There were plenty of times that I saw our DBs looking around, throwing up their hands pre snap, trying to get some sort of clue as to what coverage scheme was called.

Who is responsible for relaying that information?

Why wasn't it getting relayed in enough time?

Was it because of the no huddle that GB was running that didn't allow us to make pre snap adjustments?

I'm at a loss for what I witnessed and I'm trying to make some sense of the brain farts that occurred out there.

utahmark 10-15-2012 10:31 AM

Re: Defense question....?
 
Don't have an answer for you but I would like to know why we can't seem to slow down spread offenses. I know Brees and Rodgers are among the best but as good as we play against everyone else in the league it seems that we could at least slow those guys down. It seems Wade might have a weakness. It might turn out to haunt us if we see Brady in the playoffs.

Mr teX 10-15-2012 10:53 AM

Re: Defense question....?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cjeremy635 (Post 2037445)
I didn't want to start a whole other thread, but it seemed like the majority of the threads were targeting a specific player.

My question is what was the issue with the playcalling on the D? Not so much in regards to the scheme (although that sucked), but mainly with getting it out to the players. There were plenty of times that I saw our DBs looking around, throwing up their hands pre snap, trying to get some sort of clue as to what coverage scheme was called.

Who is responsible for relaying that information?

Why wasn't it getting relayed in enough time?

Was it because of the no huddle that GB was running that didn't allow us to make pre snap adjustments?

I'm at a loss for what I witnessed and I'm trying to make some sense of the brain farts that occurred out there.

You partially hit on it..the no huddle offense was the main culprit...it forces the defense to stay in a base formation & it limits what the defense can do blitz wise and it tires them out. This is why so many teams are using it these days.

& i hate to keep harping on it this morning, but the scouting teams have done us is the reasoning why our db's are throwing their hands up pre-snap and all that jazz...Guys don't know who they're covering based on the specialized formations and personnel offenses put out their. it's likely due to something that they didn't prepare for whatever reason...could just be something that GB didn't show too much of if at all during the season. Bunch Formations in particular always cause comunication issues b/c they often involve some sort of route combo that just barely isn't illegal.

This is one of the reasons i dislike the way the NFL is going (all offense). Sure the defense is allowed time to substitute in depending on the offense's personnel, but it is entirely reactive & the offense controls everything. by the time the defensive personnel is substituted in, the offensive personnel is already lined up & are only waiting for the refs to blow the whistle!

You combine this advantage with how sensitive the refs are calling pass interference & hits on the qb & defenseless players, the defense is at a complete disadvantage.

At the very least, they should limit times when teams can run the no-huddle like they do in the NBA with that "hack-a-shaq" rule. Either that or allow more time for the defensive personnel to get settled in or go back to the old days where defensive players could maul WR's coming across the middle & call less PI's.

sorry...:rant:

Perki-Perk 10-15-2012 11:12 AM

Re: Defense question....?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr teX (Post 2037514)
You partially hit on it..the no huddle offense was the main culprit...it forces the defense to stay in a base formation & it limits what the defense can do blitz wise and it tires them out. This is why so many teams are using it these days.

& i hate to keep harping on it this morning, but the scouting teams have done us is the reasoning why our db's are throwing their hands up pre-snap and all that jazz...Guys don't know who they're covering based on the specialized formations and personnel offenses put out their. it's likely due to something that they didn't prepare for whatever reason...could just be something that GB didn't show too much of if at all during the season. Bunch Formations in particular always cause comunication issues b/c they often involve some sort of route combo that just barely isn't illegal.

This is one of the reasons i dislike the way the NFL is going (all offense). Sure the defense is allowed time to substitute in depending on the offense's personnel, but it is entirely reactive & the offense controls everything. by the time the defensive personnel is substituted in, the offensive personnel is already lined up & are only waiting for the refs to blow the whistle!

You combine this advantage with how sensitive the refs are calling pass interference & hits on the qb & defenseless players, the defense is at a complete disadvantage.

At the very least, they should limit times when teams can run the no-huddle like they do in the NBA with that "hack-a-shaq" rule. Either that or allow more time for the defensive personnel to get settled in or go back to the old days where defensive players could maul WR's coming across the middle & call less PI's.

sorry...:rant:

No huddle only during the 2 minute warnings???

Mr teX 10-15-2012 11:22 AM

Re: Defense question....?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Perki-Perk (Post 2037542)
No huddle only during the 2 minute warnings???

No, maybe like the last 3 minutes of the quarter or something i don't know. Something just needs to be done to even the playing field is all i know.

It's very tough to play defense as it is with all the restrictions on how you can hit & tackle guys. Now you have to worry about getting the right presonnel on in enough time to play the offense the best way?

The Patriots are getting all the love for how they've incorporated the no-huddle into more of a primary offense, but You can really trace it all the way back to Kelley and the bills with that K-gun & then Peyton after that.

Double Barrel 10-15-2012 11:25 AM

Re: Defense question....?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr teX (Post 2037561)
No, maybe like the last 3 minutes of the quarter or something i don't know. Something just needs to be done to even the playing field is all i know.

It's very tough to play defense as it is with all the restrictions on how you can hit & tackle guys. Now you have to worry about getting the right presonnel on in enough time to play the offense the best way?

The Patriots are getting all the love for how they've incorporated the no-huddle into more of a primary offense, but You can really trace it all the way back to Kelley and the bills with that K-gun & then Peyton after that.

yep. Some media heads are acting like the no huddle offense is something new, but we saw that with the Bills team that went to four straight Super Bowls. It used to drive me crazy playing them, because no matter how good of a defense we had out there, the Bills could wear them down and take advantage of confusion and mismatches created by the hurry up.

dream_team 10-15-2012 11:28 AM

Re: Defense question....?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cjeremy635 (Post 2037445)
I didn't want to start a whole other thread, but it seemed like the majority of the threads were targeting a specific player.

My question is what was the issue with the playcalling on the D? Not so much in regards to the scheme (although that sucked), but mainly with getting it out to the players. There were plenty of times that I saw our DBs looking around, throwing up their hands pre snap, trying to get some sort of clue as to what coverage scheme was called.

Who is responsible for relaying that information?

Why wasn't it getting relayed in enough time?

Was it because of the no huddle that GB was running that didn't allow us to make pre snap adjustments?

I'm at a loss for what I witnessed and I'm trying to make some sense of the brain farts that occurred out there.

Thanks for starting this thread. Mainly because I think Wade needs to be getting more blame for this game in this forum. If you read around here, he seems to be getting a free pass. No one is talking about how Wade, in his career, has never beat Aaron Rodgers. Not many are talking about how the Packers exploited the dime package where GQ came down as a LB. Not many are talking about how we couldn't put pressure on the QB w/o sending in a blitz and putting our DBs in single coverage. Not many are talking about all of the breakdowns in coverage.

I understand Kubiak is the HC and deserves most of the blame, but Wade should be right there 2nd in line for his worst game as a Texan.

Mr teX 10-15-2012 11:40 AM

Re: Defense question....?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dream_team (Post 2037572)
Thanks for starting this thread. Mainly because I think Wade needs to be getting more blame for this game in this forum. If you read around here, he seems to be getting a free pass. No one is talking about how Wade, in his career, has never beat Aaron Rodgers. Not many are talking about how the Packers exploited the dime package where GQ came down as a LB. Not many are talking about how we couldn't put pressure on the QB w/o sending in a blitz and putting our DBs in single coverage. Not many are talking about all of the breakdowns in coverage.

I understand Kubiak is the HC and deserves most of the blame, but Wade should be right there 2nd in line for his worst game as a Texan.

Rodgers is 1 of those qb's who thrives on pressure-styled defenses like Wade's. During his SB run, he systematically dismantled ATL's defense b/c every time guys like Abraham got up field and came after him, he spinned out of it & got out of the pocket to find guys downfield. Every time they blitzed, he'd did the same thing or found his guys quickly on slants.....He did the same thing to Pitt in the SB.

The best way to handle him is to zone him up and force him on those 14 play drives..hope to get your hands on a few balls and limit his possessions.

Perki-Perk 10-15-2012 11:53 AM

Re: Defense question....?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr teX (Post 2037591)
Rodgers is 1 of those qb's who thrives on pressure-styled defenses like Wade's. During his SB run, he systematically dismantled ATL's defense b/c every time guys like Abraham got up field and came after him, he spinned out of it & got out of the pocket to find guys downfield. Every time they blitzed, he'd did the same thing or found his guys quickly on slants.....He did the same thing to Pitt in the SB.

The best way to handle him is to zone him up and force him on those 14 play drives..hope to get your hands on a few balls and limit his possessions.

My question would have to be also, why doesn't Kubiak take advantage of the defensive limitations of other teams? Why can't we do to their defense what they do to ours? Is our D over-rated, or is the offense? All I know is something last night stunk to high heavens.

Mr teX 10-15-2012 12:09 PM

Re: Defense question....?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Perki-Perk (Post 2037607)
My question would have to be also, why doesn't Kubiak take advantage of the defensive limitations of other teams? Why can't we do to their defense what they do to ours? Is our D over-rated, or is the offense? All I know is something last night stunk to high heavens.

little bit of both actually. We hadn't really faced anyone of note except Denver & by the 4th quarter they'd stymied our our offense a considerable amount and Manning had pretty much begun to have his way with our defense.

& last night we did take advantage of the defense like that with our last offensive TD; It was basically alll no huddle. It's just that Kubes, like alot of other coaches, don't like to depart too much from their philosophy...which for us is the run game. That can be good in alot of ways, bad in others. Last night we saw the bad.

Other than that, taking advantage of defenses like that with a no-huddle as a primary offense...well that's reserved for the top tier qbs. Rodgers fits the bill...Schaub, not so much. See buffalo to see what a no-huddle looks like with a garbage qb.

Aside from that, we've got protection issues.

BlackFizz 10-15-2012 12:10 PM

Re: Defense question....?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dream_team (Post 2037572)
Thanks for starting this thread. Mainly because I think Wade needs to be getting more blame for this game in this forum. If you read around here, he seems to be getting a free pass. No one is talking about how Wade, in his career, has never beat Aaron Rodgers. Not many are talking about how the Packers exploited the dime package where GQ came down as a LB. Not many are talking about how we couldn't put pressure on the QB w/o sending in a blitz and putting our DBs in single coverage. Not many are talking about all of the breakdowns in coverage.

I understand Kubiak is the HC and deserves most of the blame, but Wade should be right there 2nd in line for his worst game as a Texan.

Excellent point. Teams that spread Wade's defense out in Dallas and had a good protection scheme, starting moving the ball at will. If you don't have a consistent pass rush then you need shut down "players" at multiple positions in your back end.

This is why i got so deflated after we replaced Allen with Ball, and Demeco with Bradie James. It is why Keo should have never made this roster(in case of injuries). EVERYONE on the back end must be capable.

I have watched Wade for years and have been a fan of his high pressure, don't give em an inch mentality. But loyalties to incapable players, and a refusal to adjust are part of the bargain.

If you keep up with other teams recent history you will see that Wade is not alone. For years Tom Brady killed Dick Lebeau. Spread him out and killed him with one on one match ups. Finally Lebeau adjusted and had recent success by adjusting and playing more short to intermediate zones, and staying in more 2 deep coverages. Of course he still plays alot of man, but he had to adjust.

I'm confident that Wade will make the proper adjustment, but not overly confident. History tells me differently. But something has to give as we start playing more high powered offenses. Either Barwin/Reed/Smith are going to step it up, or we will see these very issues time and time again.

Thankfully we don't play these type of offenses each week. But when we do don't be shocked if this isn't the last time this thread rears it's ugly head.



BTW, is Braman ever going to get at shot at more playing time??

Playoffs 10-15-2012 12:15 PM

Re: Defense question....?
 
Packers made the Texans play nickle most of the time -- 3-4 to 4-2 -- and attacked the nickle or dime back with the pass and/or run. -- C.C.

Hervoyel 10-15-2012 12:42 PM

Re: Defense question....?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dream_team (Post 2037572)
Thanks for starting this thread. Mainly because I think Wade needs to be getting more blame for this game in this forum. If you read around here, he seems to be getting a free pass. No one is talking about how Wade, in his career, has never beat Aaron Rodgers. Not many are talking about how the Packers exploited the dime package where GQ came down as a LB. Not many are talking about how we couldn't put pressure on the QB w/o sending in a blitz and putting our DBs in single coverage. Not many are talking about all of the breakdowns in coverage.

I understand Kubiak is the HC and deserves most of the blame, but Wade should be right there 2nd in line for his worst game as a Texan.


It's a common mistake. Gary's been getting one for 7 years now so we all thought that Wade was gonna get one too.

Vinny 10-15-2012 01:58 PM

Re: Defense question....?
 
I think Wade was outcoached. I wouldn't have just played straight-up beat man coverage if you dare! Not vs Rogers. On the flip side, Glover Quinn in the box as run support was just an embarrassment. Wade may have assumed more pressure up front, but his best two players are interior linemen...that's not gonna excite too many defensive coaches.


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