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-   -   Von Miller fined $15,750 for roughing Matt Schaub (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94975)

TejasTom 09-29-2012 08:30 AM

Von Miller fined $15,750 for roughing Matt Schaub
 
Von Miller fined $15,750 for roughing Matt Schaub
Quote:

The punishment wasn’t nearly Joe Mays-severe, but still Broncos outside linebacker Von Miller got dinged pretty good by the league office.

Miller was fined $15,750 for a roughing the passer penalty he incurred during the Broncos’ 31-25 loss to the Houston Texans.

“No comment,” Miller said, adding he would appeal.

Specifically, the league said Miller “unnecessarily drove the quarterback to the ground.” The quarterback was Matt Schaub, who lost part of his ear after his helmet flew off from a blast by Mays, the Broncos’ middle linebacker.

Mays was not only fined $50,000 for the hit, he received a one-game suspension and will not play Sunday against the Oakland Raiders.
Denver Post

dream_team 09-29-2012 09:01 AM

I didn't think Miller's hit was that bad.

Playoffs 09-29-2012 11:14 AM

Re: Von Miller fined $15,750 for roughing Matt Schaub
 
Well deserved, pile-driving QB is attempt to injure imo.

TexansBlood 09-29-2012 11:19 AM

Re: Von Miller fined $15,750 for roughing Matt Schaub
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dream_team (Post 2024204)
I didn't think Miller's hit was that bad.

He picked him up off his feet and drove him into the ground, that's how shoulder injuries(Lienart) happen.

dream_team 09-29-2012 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexansBlood (Post 2024249)
He picked him up off his feet and drove him into the ground, that's how shoulder injuries(Lienart) happen.

But it wasn't intentional IMO. Looked like Miller was trying to make a clean tackle. Just so happens Schaub just threw the ball, so was out of balance, so looked like he picked him up and drove him to the ground. I don't know how Miller could have played it any differently.

TexansBlood 09-29-2012 12:00 PM

Re: Von Miller fined $15,750 for roughing Matt Schaub
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dream_team (Post 2024259)
But it wasn't intentional IMO. Looked like Miller was trying to make a clean tackle. Just so happens Schaub just threw the ball, so was out of balance, so looked like he picked him up and drove him to the ground. I don't know how Miller could have played it any differently.

So it was Shaubs fault now? Intentional or not that's how a qb can get a separated shoulder or worse and if you drive a qb into the ground you will get fined plain and simple.

robroy72 09-29-2012 12:05 PM

Re: Von Miller fined $15,750 for roughing Matt Schaub
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dream_team (Post 2024259)
But it wasn't intentional IMO. Looked like Miller was trying to make a clean tackle. Just so happens Schaub just threw the ball, so was out of balance, so looked like he picked him up and drove him to the ground. I don't know how Miller could have played it any differently.

He picked him up just above the knee and made sure his helmet was driven into #8.

Hottoddie 09-29-2012 12:15 PM

Re: Von Miller fined $15,750 for roughing Matt Schaub
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TexansBlood (Post 2024249)
He picked him up off his feet and drove him into the ground, that's how shoulder injuries(Lienart) happen.

In my opinion, that's old school football. I love seeing a defender wrap up a player & drive his dick in the dirt. That's how you intimidate a player without having to take a cheap shot. The fact that it was a QB (our QB) should have nothing to do with it. The league has pampered the QB's for so long that they've become soft. However, I do agree with throwing a flag on the Mays hit. That was an obvious attempt to injure the player.

The players today like to throw their bodies at the offensive player & more often than they should, allow the opponent to keep their balance & take off for a long run. Imo, the only sure way to tackle is to run through the player & wrap your arms around him. Then you can intimidate him by driving him into the turf hard.

Dutchrudder 09-29-2012 12:15 PM

Re: Von Miller fined $15,750 for roughing Matt Schaub
 
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/r...MillerHit1.gif

HJam72 09-29-2012 12:24 PM

Re: Von Miller fined $15,750 for roughing Matt Schaub
 
The defender's goal should be to take the QB down as quickly as possible, while possibly hitting the ball with helmet or fist or stripping it. Lifting the QB (or whoever has the ball) before driving him to the ground is not only unnecessary, but also a move made for no other reason than to hurt your opponent. If players are allowed to do things simply to hurt their opponent, injuries are far more likely, especially when it's a D-lineman doing it to a QB.

I have stated already in another thread that I actually thought the Miller hit was worse, because it was so clearly intentional, or at least I thought. I get your point about Schaub possibly hopping a little to make a throw and then Von Miller hit him, making it not all his fault; but, I want to make the point that I am very much against defenders lifting the QB only to have more room to drive him to the ground, if that had been the case or not.

ChampionTexan 09-29-2012 12:41 PM

Re: Von Miller fined $15,750 for roughing Matt Schaub
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hottoddie (Post 2024270)
In my opinion, that's old school football. I love seeing a defender wrap up a player & drive his dick in the dirt. That's how you intimidate a player without having to take a cheap shot. The fact that it was a QB (our QB) should have nothing to do with it. The league has pampered the QB's for so long that they've become soft. However, I do agree with throwing a flag on the Mays hit. That was an obvious attempt to injure the player.

The players today like to throw their bodies at the offensive player & more often than they should, allow the opponent to keep their balance & take off for a long run. Imo, the only sure way to tackle is to run through the player & wrap your arms around him. Then you can intimidate him by driving him into the turf hard.

Well, whether you agree with the rule or not, what you've just described is pretty specifically illegal when it comes to doing it to a QB in the act of passing.

Quote:

A rushing defender is prohibited from committing such intimidating and punishing acts as “stuffing” a
passer into the ground or unnecessarily wrestling or driving him down after the passer has thrown the
ball, even if the rusher makes his initial contact with the passer within the one-step limitation provided
for in (1) above. When tackling a passer who is in a defenseless posture (e.g., during or just after
throwing a pass), a defensive player must not unnecessarily or violently throw him down and land on
top of him with all or most of the defender’s weight. Instead, the defensive player must strive to wrap
up or cradle the passer with the defensive player’s arms.
LINK (Page 83)

The penalty on Miller was unquestionably correct as far as I'm concerned. Again, maybe you disagree with the rule, but that's kind of irrelevant.

dream_team 09-29-2012 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexansBlood (Post 2024268)
So it was Shaubs fault now? Intentional or not that's how a qb can get a separated shoulder or worse and if you drive a qb into the ground you will get fined plain and simple.

Not saying its Scahub's fault. Just not intentional or dirty IMO. Miller running at full speed, Schaub in the middle of throwing, is going to produce that type of hit.

infantrycak 09-29-2012 03:17 PM

Re: Von Miller fined $15,750 for roughing Matt Schaub
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dream_team (Post 2024290)
Not saying its Scahub's fault. Just not intentional or dirty IMO. Miller running at full speed, Schaub in the middle of throwing, is going to produce that type of hit.

Running at full speed has nothing to do with picking someone up. In fact it is just the opposite and proves Miller's intent Miller slowed to pick up Schaub then hops to rotate his body and come down with his weight leading with his helmet straight into Schaub's chest. He grasped Schaub specifically to able to pick him up and that is not a normal maneuver nor is it somebody in the process of "oops I had a little too much momentum going." Totally intentional.

gtexan02 09-29-2012 03:37 PM

Re: Von Miller fined $15,750 for roughing Matt Schaub
 
I wonder if all this sticking up for Miller has to do with him having gone to A&M

NitroGSXR 09-29-2012 03:41 PM

Re: Von Miller fined $15,750 for roughing Matt Schaub
 
I guess I could see it both ways. Maybe he wasn't trying to intentionally injure Schaub per se but was making a "I'm a badass" sort of tackle. Von Miller is an amped player with a lot of motor. Regardless of intent, he still has to learn to control that motor so the fine was just. Actually, it could have been higher. This isn't Miller's first rodeo.

paycheck71 09-29-2012 04:10 PM

Re: Von Miller fined $15,750 for roughing Matt Schaub
 
I don't really care what his intent was. And he's not getting fined for what he intended to do. He got fined for driving the QB to the ground, which is what he did on that play.

Same goes for the Mays hit. Some people (including ND Kalu and Greg Koch on 790AM) say it was a good hard hit and they don't see anything wrong with it because he "didn't mean" to hit Schaub in the helmet. He damn near blew Schaub's head off with his helmet to helmet hit whether he meant it or not, that's why he got suspended.

GP 09-29-2012 04:39 PM

Re: Von Miller fined $15,750 for roughing Matt Schaub
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by paycheck71 (Post 2024351)
I don't really care what his intent was. And he's not getting fined for what he intended to do. He got fined for driving the QB to the ground, which is what he did on that play.

Same goes for the Mays hit. Some people (including ND Kalu and Greg Koch on 790AM) say it was a good hard hit and they don't see anything wrong with it because he "didn't mean" to hit Schaub in the helmet. He damn near blew Schaub's head off with his helmet to helmet hit whether he meant it or not, that's why he got suspended.

Well said.

When it's our own QB getting put on blast, I'm starting to see why the new rules protecting QBs makes sense for all involved.

The only person being punished here is the defender. Everyone else wins. The QB wins because he might get to play longer, which means the team probably wins because they have their best QB out there, which means the fans win because your best QB is leading your team on Sundays.

Anybody want to see an NFL where the few talented QBs get hurt due to what's now deemed to be "illegal hits"...so we can watch a league where guys like Colt McCoy and Sage Rosenfels are a team's only option at QB? I don't. So I'm down with the QB protection-oriented rules on how a QB can be hit and how they cannot. Makes a lot of damn sense when you stop and really think about it.

Sorry guys, if you want awesome highlights of nasty hits...go watch the old NFL Films archives or play Madden video game and create all the hits on QBs you want to see (because in real life, OUR Quarterback needs to stay upright and under center).

Miller wrapped his arms around Schaub's knees, then launched himself and planted his helmet into Matt's chest. Going as vertical as he could go, to inflict the most speed and concentrated impact he could generate. That's not trying to sack a QB. That's trying to hurt him. And nobody here wants their QB out for the season on something like that. This is our Super Bowl year dammit.

dream_team 09-29-2012 04:40 PM

Re: Von Miller fined $15,750 for roughing Matt Schaub
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by infantrycak (Post 2024337)
Running at full speed has nothing to do with picking someone up. In fact it is just the opposite and proves Miller's intent Miller slowed to pick up Schaub then hops to rotate his body and come down with his weight leading with his helmet straight into Schaub's chest. He grasped Schaub specifically to able to pick him up and that is not a normal maneuver nor is it somebody in the process of "oops I had a little too much momentum going." Totally intentional.

I just watched the replay 10 times, and I guess we'll just agree to disagree. I don't see it the way you do. Oh well, I'm not losing any sleep over this.

Vinny 09-29-2012 04:48 PM

Re: Von Miller fined $15,750 for roughing Matt Schaub
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dream_team (Post 2024358)
I just watched the replay 10 times, and I guess we'll just agree to disagree. I don't see it the way you do. Oh well, I'm not losing any sleep over this.

I see that as an illegal hit too. I didn't see that as an illegal hit a few years back before they changed the rules...but you just can't pick up a qb and drive him into the turf in today's game.

paycheck71 09-29-2012 05:00 PM

Re: Von Miller fined $15,750 for roughing Matt Schaub
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny (Post 2024362)
I see that as an illegal hit too. I didn't see that as an illegal hit a few years back before they changed the rules...but you just can't pick up a qb and drive him into the turf in today's game.

I think that's where a lot of disagreements on these hits come from. People voice their opinions based on what they THINK should be legal or what USED to be legal, and not based on what actually IS legal according to the rules as they currently are. It's OK to disagree with the rules, but one can't just pretend like they don't exist.


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