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-   -   Are we overusing Foster? (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94643)

Ryan 09-17-2012 03:00 PM

Are we overusing Foster?
 
Foster is on pace right now for well over 400 carries. He's under contract for 5 seasons, we need to protect our investment. If he gets those kind of carries for the rest of the year, we may not get anywhere close to 5 good years out of him. Plus, I think Tate demands more carries because i think he's running better right now. I know Foster will get it going and i think the best way to do that is to give him less carries. I think a 20/15 split for Foster/Tate needs to happen if we want to get the most out of this running game.

I do suspect his carries will go down naturally as we will be facing better competition over the next 5-6 weeks but I think it could be a concern moving forward.

Corrosion 09-17-2012 03:16 PM

Re: Are we overusing Foster?
 
Nope .... He's your horse , ride him hard and groom him well before you put him up.


He also seems to get better as the number of carries / touches goes up.


I dont think Ive ever seen him take a real hard shot from a defender , he discussed that very point last year explainging how he avoids those big hits. I'll see if I can find the article.

He probably endures more forceful impacts picking up blitzes than he does getting tackled.

Rey 09-17-2012 03:35 PM

Re: Are we overusing Foster?
 
I don't think Foster is overused but I would like to see Tate get a few more carries.

Double Barrel 09-17-2012 03:36 PM

Re: Are we overusing Foster?
 
You play every game for this season. Let next season and beyond take care of itself.

I do like having a two-headed running attack, though. Tate can be pretty dangerous out there, especially in traffic. He was running yesterday like his life depended on it.

Trail.Blazr 09-17-2012 03:37 PM

Re: Are we overusing Foster?
 
While he's getting a higher number of carries per game, I don't think we're over using him. He's getting breathers, while subbing in Tate frequently enough. What's driving the number of carries is a combination of having a good lead and winning Time of Possession. Houston is killing their opponents in TOP so far this season. That stat I blame on our Defense :-)

ObsiWan 09-17-2012 03:44 PM

Re: Are we overusing Foster?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Trail.Blazr (Post 2015450)
While he's getting a higher number of carries per game, I don't think we're over using him. He's getting breathers, while subbing in Tate frequently enough. What's driving the number of carries is a combination of having a good lead and winning Time of Possession. Houston is killing their opponents in TOP so far this season. That stat I blame on our Defense :-)

Hey... J.J.Watt sez he's good with the offense monopolizing the ball.

Quote:

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. (AP) -- Defensive end J.J. Watt settled into a nice little routine Sunday in Jacksonville.

Three plays and a leisurely stroll to the sideline.

He did it early and often, but it never became mundane.

''They have really, really nice benches,'' Watt said. ''They have shade and they have cooling, so it was awesome that our offense held the ball for so long 'cause we were relaxing over there.''

Dutchrudder 09-17-2012 03:54 PM

Re: Are we overusing Foster?
 
I say yes, but that's only because I think Tate deserves more carries. This should be a two-headed attack, but Arian gets more like 70% of the carries. So far it's Arian 54, Tate 17 and Forsett 6. That's not the way to keep Arian fresh and ready to make big plays. Plus, the more Foster is out there, the higher the risk of injury to our 40 million dollar runningback. I would much rather see Tate get about 40-50% of the carries.

Luv_ya_blue 09-17-2012 03:54 PM

Re: Are we overusing Foster?
 
Yes.
I would like to see more balance w/Tate.
Especially in a season where he needs to make big plays before free agency. JMO, but he ran yesterday like he was playing for a big contract. Use Tate more often...

:jogger:

ChampionTexan 09-17-2012 04:23 PM

Re: Are we overusing Foster?
 
Two very related things factor into this and make me say no.

First, we're leading the NFL in time of possession by almost 2 minutes per game (essentially we're at 39 minutes/gm and second place is 37 minutes). This means we're going to run lots more plays than almost anybody else.

Which leads to the second point that we've run 151 plays from scrimmage second only to Philly who's run 163. However, the difference is that of the teams in the top five in plays run (New Orleans, New England, and KC round out the list), we're the only one who runs the ball in excess of 50% of the time. In fact if you include sacks as passing plays, none of the other 4 teams ran the ball more than 44% of the time, while we've run it 55%. Part of this may be that we've been comfortably ahead in both of our games by halftime, while the only comfortable lead any of the other 4 teams has seen was New England against the Titans in game one. More offensive plays from scrimmage for a team that runs as high a percentage of the time as any in the NFL translates to lots of carries for Mr. Foster.

To the original question - I said no, because while we should generally be successful in winning time of possesion battles, and therefore we'll run more plays, it won't always be to the degree the first two games have seen. At some point, we'll be playing closer games, and maybe even playing from behind, at which time the 55% run number will no doubt drop as will Arian's carries. I don't want to see him get over 400 carries this year, but I also don't think I will.

Corrosion 09-17-2012 04:59 PM

Re: Are we overusing Foster?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey (Post 2015446)
I don't think Foster is overused but I would like to see Tate get a few more carries.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder (Post 2015480)
I say yes, but that's only because I think Tate deserves more carries.

I dont believe there are more than 5 other backs besides Foster that would start in front ot Tate in the NFL .... Dude is a beast.


MJD
Peterson
Frank Gore
Skittles
Ray Rice


Thats all I got .... Might be a couple others but Tate belongs in the conversation with the top RB's in the league.

Dutchrudder 09-17-2012 05:12 PM

Re: Are we overusing Foster?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ckhouston (Post 2015528)
We paid him the money because he is our best option. Not saying I wouldnt like to see Tate get a few more, but Foster is the man ... give him the rock.

He's on pace for 432 carries and targeted for 80 passes on the year. That's too much for any runningback, regardless of how much they are paid. 70% of the carries is a lot when you have a guy like Tate right behind him, and 5 years left on Arian's deal. I'm all for getting our use out of him during his contract, but let's get the the carries down to about 50-60%, and not put him out there when the team is up by 17 points in the 4th quarter. Same goes for Andre too. Just let Forsett and Tate pound the ball, either one of those guys are just as good at running out the clock.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corrosion (Post 2015537)
I dont believe there are more than 5 other backs besides Foster that would start in front ot Tate in the NFL .... Dude is a beast.


MJD
Peterson
Frank Gore
Skittles
Ray Rice


Thats all I got .... Might be a couple others but Tate belongs in the conversation with the top RB's in the league.

What? You don't think Reggie Bush is just as talented???

Rey 09-17-2012 05:15 PM

Re: Are we overusing Foster?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder (Post 2015539)
He's on pace for 432 carries and targeted for 80 passes on the year. That's too much for any runningback, regardless of how much they are paid. 70% of the carries is a lot when you have a guy like Tate right behind him, and 5 years left on Arian's deal. I'm all for getting our use out of him during his contract, but let's get the the carries down to about 50-60%, and not put him out there when the team is up by 17 points in the 4th quarter. Same goes for Andre too. Just let Forsett and Tate pound the ball, either one of those guys are just as good at running out the clock.

Agreed...

100000 times agreed.

PapaL 09-17-2012 05:17 PM

Re: Are we overusing Foster?
 
Schaub is in 100% of the plays and takes 100% of the snaps, should we take him out and give Yates some snaps? He is injury prone and just recently signed a fat new contract.

Sounds ludicrous right?

Dutchrudder 09-17-2012 05:22 PM

Re: Are we overusing Foster?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PapaL (Post 2015543)
Schaub is in 100% of the plays and takes 100% of the snaps, should we take him out and give Yates some snaps? He is injury prone and just recently signed a fat new contract.

Sounds ludicrous right?

If the strategy was to run Schaub into linebackers and tackles in an effort to use up the clock, then yes I would prefer his backup do it instead.

Schaub's a smart guy, and he has control of the ball as the QB. He takes the snap, hands off or drops back and determines where to throw. If there's nothing open he can throw it away and avoid hits, Arian can't avoid a tackle in the case of running out the clock. You're just wasting Arian by having him take garbage carries in a game that is all but over. There's a good reason why they call the end of 3 score games "garbage time," it's for backup players to get some reps and take the hits, not multi-million dollar players who have already proven themselves.

The Pencil Neck 09-17-2012 05:25 PM

Re: Are we overusing Foster?
 
I voted "Yes" because in the past 10-15 years, when backs get too many touches, they have a tendency to break down and not be very good after that -- CJ2ypc, Larry Johnson, Shaun Alexander, Ahman Green, etc.

So I'd prefer that Arian get around 300 carries and Ben get about 100-200 carries to evenly distribute the load and to prolong both of their careers.

Although... it's interesting that Arian's "idol" is Eric Dickerson. Dickerson was a HOSS. He had over 370 carries 4 times in his career and just kept on delivering. Granted, he only had about 6 good seasons before he was used up but still.

Corrosion 09-17-2012 05:34 PM

Re: Are we overusing Foster?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder (Post 2015539)
He's on pace for 432 carries and targeted for 80 passes on the year.


What? You don't think Reggie Bush is just as talented???

Damn , thats a hell of a lot of carries .... I really didnt realize he had that many thus far , but I think the last game somewhat skews the stats some. Not often you are going to rush the ball 40+ times.

Tho I know Gary wouldnt mind 17 repeat performances .....



Reggie Bush .... You know , I didnt want him coming out , I wanted VY , thank GOD that didnt happen.

He's become a pretty good back .... But I believe Tate is a better running back , even if Bush is more versatile.


Tate ... punishes defenders and is shifty enough ... how bout that spin move yesterday that got a couple extra yards , kept him in bounds and the clock running - Heads up play there.

Norg 09-17-2012 05:45 PM

Re: Are we overusing Foster?
 
no but i do think we are overusing Schaub he really didnt need to play half of the 4th qtr esp if all we did was run da ball

Scooter 09-17-2012 06:10 PM

Re: Are we overusing Foster?
 
it looks that way because of how the first two games played out. we were also using the lead to work on problem areas in our run game so more carries were part of the plan. on pace for 400 carries goes out the window when he gets 12 carries in a closer pass happy game or one where he fumbles early and tate gets the rock all day. that being said, i'm in agreement with others that tate should get more work to ensure that both are fresh at the end.

Rey 09-17-2012 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PapaL (Post 2015543)
Schaub is in 100% of the plays and takes 100% of the snaps, should we take him out and give Yates some snaps? He is injury prone and just recently signed a fat new contract.

Sounds ludicrous right?


Something sure does sound ludicrous.

PapaL 09-17-2012 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder (Post 2015549)
If the strategy was to run Schaub into linebackers and tackles in an effort to use up the clock, then yes I would prefer his backup do it instead.

Schaub's a smart guy, and he has control of the ball as the QB. He takes the snap, hands off or drops back and determines where to throw. If there's nothing open he can throw it away and avoid hits, Arian can't avoid a tackle in the case of running out the clock. You're just wasting Arian by having him take garbage carries in a game that is all but over. There's a good reason why they call the end of 3 score games "garbage time," it's for backup players to get some reps and take the hits, not multi-million dollar players who have already proven themselves.

How many times does a QB get their foot stepped on by their C or G? Schaub with that plate in his recently healed foot is just as likely as Arian (who is running behind pads, his OL, and can take knee) to get hurt. Same garbage time. One with a history.

Let's be honest here, how many people actually think Foster ends up w 400 carries? I sure don't.


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