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-   -   Outside O-Line Perspective (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9459)

dtran04 05-28-2005 05:25 PM

Outside O-Line Perspective
 
I thought it was interesting to see what these guys think of all the O-Lines in the league. We have to tendency to either overrate or underrate our very own players. I think that our O-line needs some work but I don't think its the end of the world if nothing changes either.

http://www.footballguys.com/05smith_ol.htm

They have us ranked 16, which seems about right.

TexansTrueFan 05-28-2005 05:55 PM

it seems about right to me, i dont think the o-line will be any worse this year , it should be better.

Vinny 05-28-2005 08:47 PM

I try telling everyone that our line play is not as bad as most of us fans portray...but no one wants to listen to that.

Vinny 05-28-2005 08:53 PM

We are an excellent drive blocking team. I talk to many people and I get the same thing (along with my own good eye for linemen thankyouverymuch) Everyone seems to think that the only skill a linemen needs is to be new (if he replaces someone he HAS to be better :brickwall ), and to be a pass blocker.

Lucky 05-28-2005 09:16 PM

Since no one is running the wishbone, it's pretty important to pass block in the NFL. The NFL average for sacks allowed is slightly above 2 sacks per game. The Texans allowed just over 3 sacks per game. That's not an average performance. If the Texans had gotten an average performance in pass blocking, I doubt we'd hear much complaining about the O-line. And they give an "A" for depth? Even if the Texans sign another O-lineman, they're still a ways from having excellent depth on the O-line.

I think this is the 2nd time these fantasy rankings have popped up here. Hey, I'd love for the Texans to have the #16 O-line in the NFL. You can win with a line like that. They could become that good this year. But they weren't that good last year. I don't think it's the "end of the world" if the Texans wind up standing pat on the O-line. But they must pass block much better in order to be considered an average offensive line. I'd call these rankings premature, at best.

Vinny 05-28-2005 09:20 PM

I never said pass blocking was not important. I think a ton of our problems is in our protection schemes. I don't see guys getting physically beat that often when I watch the games I have on tape.

wags 05-28-2005 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny
I think a ton of our problems is in our protection schemes.

Does it normally take three years to develop a good scheme?

TopTexanFan16 05-28-2005 09:25 PM

yah i kinda agree that our line isnt as bad as i think it is haha.....but in that link of all the things they commented on they said our O-line is becoming a force......i dont care how u put it our O-line is not becoming a force. sry but thats MHO.

Vinny 05-28-2005 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wags
Does it normally take three years to develop a good scheme?

I know for a fact that Pendry was upset about leaving his Guards in too many isolations. We didn't use any slide protections and we never used Dom for anything but chip blocking (he rarely did that).

beerlover 05-28-2005 09:29 PM

"This group will never excel in pass protection but should be able to open gaping holes for the running game to exploit."

this sounds resonable to me. & exactly why the Texans first pick in 06 should be the best lineman available. if McKinney is the leader then the Texans need to begin grooming his successor, is it possible that Drew Hodgdon will be the one?

secondly Vinny alot of us agree with you that the line has its strengths its the weaknesses that hurt, especially Carr :crying:

Lucky 05-28-2005 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny
I never said pass blocking was not important. I think a ton of our problems is in our protection schemes. I don't see guys getting physically beat that often when I watch the games I have on tape.

There may very well have been problems in the protection schemes. But I have seen the linemen get beat on several occasions. I've seen Wand tossed around like a rag doll. I've seen McKinney blown up too many times to count. And Wiegert was consistantly beaten off the snap by pass rushers.

Wand could (and even should) get stronger. It's very possible that McKinney & Wiegert had to play a less than 100% too many times last season (blowing up the grade A depth notion). They could improve on their performances, if healthy. I don't know how much of the '04 failures were due by design or by execution (as Dom tried to convince us on a weekly basis). Bottom line is they didn't play well and must get better. Better across the board, be it the players & the coaches.

wags 05-28-2005 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny
I know for a fact that Pendry was upset about leaving his Guards in too many isolations. We didn't use any slide protections and we never used Dom for anything but chip blocking (he rarely did that).

Good Lord!! So we can't leave Wand one on one and we can't leave our guards one on one. Do we have anyone that can handle one man alone?

Vinny 05-28-2005 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky
There may very well have been problems in the protection schemes. But I have seen the linemen get beat on several occasions. I've seen Wand tossed around like a rag doll. I've seen McKinney blown up too many times to count. And Wiegert was consistantly beaten off the snap by pass rushers.

Wand could (and even should) get stronger. It's very possible that McKinney & Wiegert had to play a less than 100% too many times last season (blowing up the grade A depth notion). They could improve on their performances, if healthy. I don't know how much of the '04 failures were due by design or by execution (as Dom tried to convince us on a weekly basis). Bottom line is they didn't play well and must get better. Better across the board, be it the players & the coaches.

I see linemen get beat on all 32 teams....and yes, on several occasions. I'm not a big fan of McKinney, so I'll leave that one alone. Weigert is fine if he is healthy, but since he isn't always healthy that is an issue. I agree that Wand will get better, but from what I see here on our boards most people think Wand is as good as he is ever going to get for some reason. He will defy all coaching and strength training and never get any better.

Vinny 05-28-2005 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wags
Good Lord!! So we can't leave Wand one on one and we can't leave our guards one on one. Do we have anyone that can handle one man alone?

Most teams use slide protections and isolate their linemen less than we do. You probably just don't know it.

wags 05-28-2005 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny
Most teams use slide protections and isolate their linemen less than we do. You probably just don't know it.

So why didn't we do that before?

Vinny 05-28-2005 09:38 PM

I'm just a fan like you are. I don't know how we come to our decisions when we game plan. I'm just passing on my opinion and a tidbit of insight.

TexansTrueFan 05-29-2005 01:28 AM

The worst possible thing we could do right now IMO is go to moving guys on our O-Line around and putting different people in. I feel we will be better off letting all the same guys who played together last year play together this year, they have had a little time to gel NOW. So they know eachother tendencys and the other guys abilities. Moving guys would just not be good for our team or Carr.

jacquescas 05-29-2005 01:33 AM

so if they have us at 16 now what will we improve to if we sign Shelton?

TexansTrueFan 05-29-2005 01:45 AM

what will improve to ??? Honestly i think we'll be worse if we take someone out and put him in,,,,we'd rank 23rd.........

nunusguy 05-29-2005 09:11 AM

Two key decisions that undermined OL development:
(1) If you saw the Texans opener in '03 against Miami, you might agree with
me that Pitts played the best game ever by Texan LT, when you consider
he was going against Miami ProBowler Jason Taylor. Had Pitts not been moved
to guard last year, how good would he be starting his 4th year this fall as our LT ?
(2) Make it a higher priority this year to draft a top notch guard/center
instead of doing the PB trade, AG has another year or two but this OL situation needs to get fixed like yesterday.
I like this lineup: RT Wade
RG Weigert
C D.Bass
LT Pitts
LG Wand, McKinney, Weary, Washington, & M. Brown can fight it out


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