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-   -   Maybe last years draft wasn't all Phillips. (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91636)

DocBar 04-26-2012 06:13 AM

Maybe last years draft wasn't all Phillips.
 
LINK
Just some food for thought here.
Quote:

4. Houston Texans (2009)

Starters Found: Brian Cushing (LB), Connor Barwin (LB) and Glover Quin (S)

Contributions From: Antoine Caldwell (G), James Casey (TE), Brice McCain (CB) and Troy Nolan (S)

Best Pick: Brian Cushing

Summary: Just the three starters, but given the way the Texans change things up on offense and how often they’re in their dime defense, they’ve managed to turn essentially everyone of their picks (bar Anthony Hill) into a significant contributor. That’s a huge achievement that no other team has got close to in recent years. Cushing is the star and Barwin proved extremely productive in his third year, but spare some time to applaud the picks of Caldwell (played well enough in 1,145 snaps that the Texans could allow Mike Brisiel to walk), McCain (excelled in the slot), and Casey (a dynamic, versatile playmaker). These guys all contributed to the Texans’ success.

Lucky 04-26-2012 06:29 AM

Re: Maybe last years draft wasn't all Phillips.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DocBar (Post 1942206)
LINK
Just some food for thought here.

Not sure what this has to do with last year. It's documented that Phillips gave Smith a list of players he wanted. And Smith drafted 5 of them.

Credit Smith for actually drafting the players. He did move up to take Harris. But it was Phillips' list he was drafting from.

Wolf6151 04-26-2012 06:34 AM

Re: Maybe last years draft wasn't all Phillips.
 
Last years draft was 2011 not 2009.

Playoffs 04-26-2012 08:05 AM

Re: Maybe last years draft wasn't all Phillips.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DocBar (Post 1942206)
...

Don't be starting a thread that hints at Rick Smith being good in the war room ... not here ..... TT won't have any part of that. :foottap:

buddyboy 04-26-2012 08:14 AM

Re: Maybe last years draft wasn't all Phillips.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky (Post 1942208)
Not sure what this has to do with last year. It's documented that Phillips gave Smith a list of players he wanted. And Smith drafted 5 of them.

Credit Smith for actually drafting the players. He did move up to take Harris. But it was Phillips' list he was drafting from.

Not that I don't believe you, but where is the documented evidence of this? Just curious because things tend to become fact around here after enough people say it...

I agree with the OP. The FO has gotten better at drafting, before Phillips came in and the trend has continued after he came in.

welsh texan 04-26-2012 08:14 AM

Re: Maybe last years draft wasn't all Phillips.
 
I getcha DB, making the point that it isn't the first time we've drafted well on D.

2009 has turned out to be a good draft, especially when you consider that some people see it as the worst overall draft class of all time (not the Texans' draft class, the draft class as a whole).

Wade definitely made a big contribution last year, but you can't discount that the bulk of the work was done by the scouting team etc with Wade likely picking based on information provided to him.

I also don't know why people are lauding last years draft as some kind of 2006 repeat right now, only 3 of them made any real contribution so far, with potential for more going forward, but we just don't know yet.

You simply have to wait 3 years before beginning to grade a draft, rewind 12 months and I'll give you the general consensus on the 2009 draft -

Cushing - PED pumping rookie season, garbage once he came off the juice
Connor Barwin - reasonable contribution in rookie season, injured sophomore, undecided but with potential
Glover Quin - Poor CB who held the team back
Caldwell - Decent starter about to be beaten out in camp by Briesel
Casey - Can't get ahead of Dreessen on the depth chart, low contribution
McCain - held us back in the worst secondary in football
Troy Nolan - people actually probably rated him higher 12 months ago than they do now.

And yet people already want to grade last years draft as some kind of epic win, I'm quietly confident, but lets wait and see eh?

SW H-TOWN 04-26-2012 08:17 AM

Re: Maybe last years draft wasn't all Phillips.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DocBar (Post 1942206)
LINK
Just some food for thought here.

Year and title are off but damn good draft nonetheless. Let's go Texans!!! Man I'm pumped.

HOU-TEX 04-26-2012 08:37 AM

Re: Maybe last years draft wasn't all Phillips.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by buddyboy (Post 1942252)
Not that I don't believe you, but where is the documented evidence of this? Just curious because things tend to become fact around here after enough people say it...

I agree with the OP. The FO has gotten better at drafting, before Phillips came in and the trend has continued after he came in.

That's very well may be true. Smith all but admitted in his PC and on the 610 interview that he was basically learning on the job. Especially working with other teams.

Quote:

(on why he has made more draft-day trade deals in recent years) “I think certainly the experience helps. I’m much more familiar, obviously, with the process of making draft day trades. There is a lot of excitement about trading, maybe that has a little bit to do with it. I would probably lean more to just the coincidence and the way that the particular draft have set themselves up. We have certainly opened and always been open to moving up and back, and that’s one of the things we’re doing now. Then the last few days prior to the draft is what you do. You spend time trying to get a feel for what’s happening around you; talking to the various GMs around the league and talking about their openness to moving and making sure that we have a good feel for who’s open to moving and making sure that when those opportunities might present themselves and being prepared about what it might take to get the deals done.”
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/ar...4-638dc7b01b9d

TimeKiller 04-26-2012 09:51 AM

Re: Maybe last years draft wasn't all Phillips.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HOU-TEX (Post 1942270)
That's very well may be true. Smith all but admitted in his PC and on the 610 interview that he was basically learning on the job. Especially working with other teams.



http://www.houstontexans.com/news/ar...4-638dc7b01b9d

Correct me if I'm wrong here but are you implying you would rather have a GM who never learns anything about his job?

wolf123 04-26-2012 10:07 AM

Re: Maybe last years draft wasn't all Phillips.
 
2009 Draft has turned into a great draft class!

HOU-TEX 04-26-2012 10:13 AM

Re: Maybe last years draft wasn't all Phillips.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TimeKiller (Post 1942330)
Correct me if I'm wrong here but are you implying you would rather have a GM who never learns anything about his job?

No, I'm not. I'm saying he didn't really know how to run a draft when he got here. On the job training, more or less. Similar to that of our owner, who also admitted he was learning as he went

Marcus 04-26-2012 10:21 AM

Re: Maybe last years draft wasn't all Phillips.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by welsh texan (Post 1942253)
I getcha DB, making the point that it isn't the first time we've drafted well on D.

2009 has turned out to be a good draft, especially when you consider that some people see it as the worst overall draft class of all time (not the Texans' draft class, the draft class as a whole).

Wade definitely made a big contribution last year, but you can't discount that the bulk of the work was done by the scouting team etc with Wade likely picking based on information provided to him.

I also don't know why people are lauding last years draft as some kind of 2006 repeat right now, only 3 of them made any real contribution so far, with potential for more going forward, but we just don't know yet.

You simply have to wait 3 years before beginning to grade a draft, rewind 12 months and I'll give you the general consensus on the 2009 draft -

Cushing - PED pumping rookie season, garbage once he came off the juice
Connor Barwin - reasonable contribution in rookie season, injured sophomore, undecided but with potential
Glover Quin - Poor CB who held the team back
Caldwell - Decent starter about to be beaten out in camp by Briesel
Casey - Can't get ahead of Dreessen on the depth chart, low contribution
McCain - held us back in the worst secondary in football
Troy Nolan - people actually probably rated him higher 12 months ago than they do now.

And yet people already want to grade last years draft as some kind of epic win, I'm quietly confident, but lets wait and see eh?

Well, if Cushing played like garbage last year, I certainly hope he continues to play like garbage. I mean WTF?

Edit: Oh that's right - rewind the last 12 months, doh!

BigBull17 04-26-2012 10:50 AM

Re: Maybe last years draft wasn't all Phillips.
 
Its everybody. Wade didn't lock Kubiak and Smith in a closet till the draft was over. The Texans are very much into having multiple coaches from both sides of the ball scout players. Wade had more of a plan of attack, and led the players infinitly better than Bush, but he is not 100% responsible for that draft. Thats not the first good draft we have had. Had a few prior to him arriving.

The Pencil Neck 04-26-2012 11:49 AM

Re: Maybe last years draft wasn't all Phillips.
 
This is what I was saying after last year's draft.

Smith is pretty good at working the draft.

I think a big part of Smith's "problem" in drafts was the coaches he was working with. I think Smith is the kind of GM who sits down with the coordinators and the positional coaches, presents them with lists of guys and what the scouts think, and then creates his board off of what the coaches tell him they want.

I think he got some great feedback from Phillips and the new defensive staff and I think that resulted in a great draft. In previous years, I think he'd gotten some crappy suggestions (especially wrt defensive backs) and that led to him drafting some guys he maybe shouldn't have drafted.

The Pencil Neck 04-26-2012 11:50 AM

Re: Maybe last years draft wasn't all Phillips.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolf6151 (Post 1942210)
Last years draft was 2011 not 2009.

Yeah, see... his point was that 2011 was a great draft. But 2009 was a great draft too and it was before Phillips. So maybe Phillips isn't the only reason we had a good draft in 2011.

BigBull17 04-26-2012 11:52 AM

Re: Maybe last years draft wasn't all Phillips.
 
Agreed. Bush didn't know his elbow from his *******.

Rey 04-26-2012 11:55 AM

Re: Maybe last years draft wasn't all Phillips.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck (Post 1942414)
This is what I was saying after last year's draft.

Smith is pretty good at working the draft.

I think a big part of Smith's "problem" in drafts was the coaches he was working with. I think Smith is the kind of GM who sits down with the coordinators and the positional coaches, presents them with lists of guys and what the scouts think, and then creates his board off of what the coaches tell him they want.

I think he got some great feedback from Phillips and the new defensive staff and I think that resulted in a great draft. In previous years, I think he'd gotten some crappy suggestions (especially wrt defensive backs) and that led to him drafting some guys he maybe shouldn't have drafted.

I agree.

I also think that he will continue to get better the longer he does it. I think he has learned from things he's done in the past and I think this will be a good draft this year because of it.

steelbtexan 04-26-2012 11:55 AM

Re: Maybe last years draft wasn't all Phillips.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck (Post 1942414)
This is what I was saying after last year's draft.

Smith is pretty good at working the draft.

I think a big part of Smith's "problem" in drafts was the coaches he was working with. I think Smith is the kind of GM who sits down with the coordinators and the positional coaches, presents them with lists of guys and what the scouts think, and then creates his board off of what the coaches tell him they want.

I think he got some great feedback from Phillips and the new defensive staff and I think that resulted in a great draft. In previous years, I think he'd gotten some crappy suggestions (especially wrt defensive backs) and that led to him drafting some guys he maybe shouldn't have drafted.

You would think Rick may watch a little film so that he could be educated on those lists. He** he might even compile a list of his own? (Doubtful)

welsh texan 04-26-2012 11:57 AM

Re: Maybe last years draft wasn't all Phillips.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by steelbtexan (Post 1942426)
You would think Rick may watch a little film so that he could be educated on those lists. He** he might even compile a list of his own? (Doubtful)

This post is all kinds of fail.

b0ng 04-26-2012 12:06 PM

Re: Maybe last years draft wasn't all Phillips.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by steelbtexan (Post 1942426)
You would think Rick may watch a little film so that he could be educated on those lists. He** he might even compile a list of his own? (Doubtful)

Since you've got the finger very close to the pulse of the Texans FO office, what are Rick Smith's preparations exactly?


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