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-   -   Mussops mock (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90903)

mussop 04-01-2012 01:03 PM

Mussops mock
 
1st Coby Fleener TE Stanford Sr 6-6 247

With all the 2 TE sets we run and the pending cap problems/huge contract OD has going into next year, getting a top flight TE should be important. Fleener is the best TE in this draft period and is as close as you get to can't miss.

2nd Mitchell Schwartz OT California Sr 6-5 318

We have no real depth at OT and Schwartz is a perfect fit for our system. He can also play OG.


3rd Mike Martin DT Michigan Sr 6-1 306

Adding another active player to our front seven rotation is going to pay huge dividends down the dtretch.

4th a Greg Childs WR Arkansas Sr 6-3 219

Do I need to explain this pick?

4th b Derek Wolfe DE Cincinnati Sr 6-5 295

AGAIN = Adding another active player to our front seven rotation is going to pay huge dividends down the stretch.


5th Audie Cole ILB NC State rSr 6-4 246

Competition for Sharpton. Have to have more quality depth here.

6th Evan Rodriguez FB Temple Sr 6-1 239

Backs up Casey and don't have to change anything when he is in.

7th J.R. Sweezy DT NC State rSr 6-5 298

AGAIN = Adding another active player to our front seven rotation is going to pay huge dividends down the stretch.

otisbean 04-01-2012 01:12 PM

Re: Mussops mock
 
I like it. Fleener will be a terrific pro. My only issue is we need an OLB. If we lost Barwin or Reed we'd be hurting.

Rey 04-01-2012 03:06 PM

Re: Mussops mock
 
IMHO, Nading was just as good a player as Reed was last year. Meaning, Reed as a Rookie was comparable to Nading as a vet. Meaning, if Nading was in instead of Reed I think we'd have gotten similar production out of the position.

I think Reed will likely be better than Nading moving forward because Reed is the more talented player.

But my point is that I don't think we are hurting there as much as people tend to think.

Also, Braman is a project player, but the only way he will ever stop being that is to actually play. I'd like to see what he can do getting a few snaps here and there.

All that said, I wouldn't complain at all with a OLB in the draft to add to the rotation. I just don't think it's a must get position where you may pass up more talented players at other positions to grab a perceived need.

WolverineFan 04-01-2012 04:24 PM

Re: Mussops mock
 
Fantastic mock my man. I would absolutely love this draft.

The only thing I see wrong with it is Wolfe going at the end of the 4th round. It will be a crime if he lasts that long, dude is a beast.

EVOLVIST 04-01-2012 06:06 PM

Re: Mussops mock
 
Hmmmm... Mussop, I respect the hell out of the way you know your game, so take whatever I have to say with a grain of salt (and try not to think I'm crapping on your draft) :tiphat:

Coby Fleener - I just don't see the Texans drafting a TE with the first pick. They like TEs they can groom. With OD spending at least one more year as a Texan, and having groomed Graham to be a starter this year, that equals 2 quality TEs. Or, if Graham looks like crap, then Casey's up to bat. That means there's no problem with getting a TE in the lower rounds at least for depth this year. Next year might be different.

OT - Just not sure the Texans take OL this high either when obviously the Texans are sending the signal that they have the depth the like. Maybe.

Martin, Childs, Wolfe, Cole & Sweezy. I love all these picks by round. If any late round WR could be a difference maker right away it would be Childs.

FB - I think it's wasted pick this high on Rodriguez

So, I guess all in all I would be cool with it if the Texans drafted like this since that's 5/8. :bravo:

Nawzer 04-01-2012 06:11 PM

Re: Mussops mock
 
I like this mock. I think Fleener is a better TE than any of the receivers that will available for us to draft. We need a red zone guy and with Dressen gone, we'll need someone to fill his gap. It's unlikely, but a bold pick imo.

Insideop 04-01-2012 07:43 PM

Re: Mussops mock
 
I like players 1 through 5 and would be happy if the Draft fell this way. Having said that, I don't think the Texans would go with Fleener in the 1st. Since Dreessen left I think they will draft another TE but probably later in the Draft. If they have him rated higher than any of the WR's, OLB's, ILB's, DE's, and DT's on the board when they pick in the 1st, then I guess it's possible. I just don't think they will go that way in the 1st.

Don't think they will get 2 DT's or pick a FB either. They can get a UDFA FB later. I would think they pick another QB late for development. We don't have enough QB's right now to go to camp. Also, if they don't sign Rackers, they may draft a Kicker for the 1st time. Bullock anyone?

Goldensilence 04-01-2012 08:41 PM

Re: Mussops mock
 
I'd take this draft. Fleener was much quicker then expected at his pro day. Truth is most of our Te's are more conventional, but Fleener is the type of
TE that would create mismatches.

If he's there at 26 and no one else better is on the board I hope the FO will give him a look.

rmartin65 04-01-2012 08:42 PM

Re: Mussops mock
 
I absolutely love your first 4 picks. After that, it gets a little dicey. But those first 4 picks are awesome.

TimeKiller 04-02-2012 07:31 AM

Re: Mussops mock
 
A long time ago I put together a mock with Dwayne Allen as the 1st pick for the same reasons getting used here, Texans utilize 2TE sets, Dreesen is gone, better than the WR available, etc.

Good to see people have come around since then because I got ripped for it. Dislike picks 2/3 but other than that solid effort.

WolverineFan 04-02-2012 08:21 AM

Re: Mussops mock
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TimeKiller (Post 1929928)
A long time ago I put together a mock with Dwayne Allen as the 1st pick for the same reasons getting used here, Texans utilize 2TE sets, Dreesen is gone, better than the WR available, etc.

Good to see people have come around since then because I got ripped for it. Dislike picks 2/3 but other than that solid effort.

I think it's because nobody really likes Allen as a prospect. Guy has gone from a fringe 1st rounder to a 2nd-3rd round guy in a matter of 2 months. Fleener is a far superior prospect.

Also, Dreessen was still an UFA at the time and I'm sure everyone was holding out hope that he'd re-sign.

beerlover 04-02-2012 08:29 AM

Re: Mussops mock
 
Seriously doubt Kubiak would take a TE in first.
Schwartz is another tempting prospect but taking him here also presses his value higher out of need than it should.
Can't argue with Martin since he is here in my mock as well. Perfect rotational/depth NT who has starter mentality.
Childs hands are inconsistent, injury aside.
Wolfe won't last this late.
Nor will Audi Cole, gone late 3rd/early 4th.
Texans will probably pick up TE very late, or off waiver wire when teams trim rosters.
Sweezy good late round developmental pick.

Blake 04-02-2012 08:43 AM

Re: Mussops mock
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mussop (Post 1929723)
1st Coby Fleener TE Stanford Sr 6-6 247

With all the 2 TE sets we run and the pending cap problems/huge contract OD has going into next year, getting a top flight TE should be important. Fleener is the best TE in this draft period and is as close as you get to can't miss.

Not a fan of the 1st round TE route. I feel we already have very talented pass catching TE's on the roster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mussop (Post 1929723)
2nd Mitchell Schwartz OT California Sr 6-5 318

We have no real depth at OT and Schwartz is a perfect fit for our system. He can also play OG.

I can get on board with this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mussop (Post 1929723)
3rd Mike Martin DT Michigan Sr 6-1 306

Adding another active player to our front seven rotation is going to pay huge dividends down the dtretch.

I like Martin, just not in the 3rd.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mussop (Post 1929723)
4th a Greg Childs WR Arkansas Sr 6-3 219

Do I need to explain this pick?

I like this pick. Could be a steal in the draft.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mussop (Post 1929723)
4th b Derek Wolfe DE Cincinnati Sr 6-5 295

AGAIN = Adding another active player to our front seven rotation is going to pay huge dividends down the stretch.

I can get on board with this selection too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mussop (Post 1929723)
5th Audie Cole ILB NC State rSr 6-4 246

Competition for Sharpton. Have to have more quality depth here.

Would be a nice masher in the middle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mussop (Post 1929723)
6th Evan Rodriguez FB Temple Sr 6-1 239

Backs up Casey and don't have to change anything when he is in.

Not sure Kubiak would spend a draft pick on a FB. Can get one vai UDFA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mussop (Post 1929723)
7th J.R. Sweezy DT NC State rSr 6-5 298

AGAIN = Adding another active player to our front seven rotation is going to pay huge dividends down the stretch.

Depth is good.

powda 04-02-2012 12:44 PM

Re: Mussops mock
 
I'd be on a rampage if we drafted a TE in the first round. Hate that pick. Also I dont believe the texans will draft a true full back. They dont seem to value the position enough to spend picks or $$ on it.

TimeKiller 04-02-2012 05:57 PM

Re: Mussops mock
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WolverineFan (Post 1929936)
I think it's because nobody really likes Allen as a prospect. Guy has gone from a fringe 1st rounder to a 2nd-3rd round guy in a matter of 2 months. Fleener is a far superior prospect.

Also, Dreessen was still an UFA at the time and I'm sure everyone was holding out hope that he'd re-sign.

I guess I was leading the pack on that one too. I thought he should've been out regardless of who offered him what, I know he's a Kubiak guy but he was replaced before he left. Unless it was for vet minimum he wasn't coming back.

I also did the mock when Allen was considered the #1 TE before Fleener ran really fast on a track and made everybody giddy! This is a pretty weak TE draft overall don't you think?

WolverineFan 04-02-2012 06:01 PM

Re: Mussops mock
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TimeKiller (Post 1930303)
I guess I was leading the pack on that one too. I thought he should've been out regardless of who offered him what, I know he's a Kubiak guy but he was replaced before he left. Unless it was for vet minimum he wasn't coming back.

I also did the mock when Allen was considered the #1 TE before Fleener ran really fast on a track and made everybody giddy! This is a pretty weak TE draft overall don't you think?

I was saying Fleener was the best TE during the college season. He just didn't start getting mad hype/attention until after his combine. That tends to happen with TE's.

But yes TE is very weak this year. There are a few solid prospects, but only 1 guy you could consider a top talent.

TimeKiller 04-02-2012 06:20 PM

Re: Mussops mock
 
And don't even act like Tajh Boyd is on Andrew Luck's level...lol...

I still think Allen is worth a 2nd. There are a lot of interesting prospects at TE...just not many good ones! Green is like a mega WR but that is kind of scheme specific and I don't think the Texans want to spread it out to that extent. Fleener is kind of that way too, he wasn't making a name blocking anybody. Orson Charles could be the ultimate H-back prospect but a 2nd might be a bit much for me. Emil Igwenagu is a later round guy I've picked up on, seems like a decent option who could develop like Casey did, I think another guy like that would serve better than a slobber knocker FB would.

mussop 04-02-2012 07:42 PM

Re: Mussops mock
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey (Post 1929763)
IMHO, Nading was just as good a player as Reed was last year. Meaning, Reed as a Rookie was comparable to Nading as a vet. Meaning, if Nading was in instead of Reed I think we'd have gotten similar production out of the position.

I think Reed will likely be better than Nading moving forward because Reed is the more talented player.

But my point is that I don't think we are hurting there as much as people tend to think.

Also, Braman is a project player, but the only way he will ever stop being that is to actually play. I'd like to see what he can do getting a few snaps here and there.

All that said, I wouldn't complain at all with a OLB in the draft to add to the rotation. I just don't think it's a must get position where you may pass up more talented players at other positions to grab a perceived need.

This! Add to that the panicky WR responses that are rampant around here is why I did this mock. Just wanted to hit it from another angle than gotta have a WR and an OLB with the first two picks approach that you see here so much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolverineFan (Post 1929785)
Fantastic mock my man. I would absolutely love this draft.

The only thing I see wrong with it is Wolfe going at the end of the 4th round. It will be a crime if he lasts that long, dude is a beast.

Man I'm having a hard time with figuring out just where Wolfe is going to end up. I love him and would take him over Still who mentioned in the first round all the time. I just can't get a handle on him for some reason.


Quote:

Originally Posted by EVOLVIST (Post 1929803)
Hmmmm... Mussop, I respect the hell out of the way you know your game, so take whatever I have to say with a grain of salt (and try not to think I'm crapping on your draft) :tiphat:

Thank you very much.

Coby Fleener - I just don't see the Texans drafting a TE with the first pick. They like TEs they can groom. With OD spending at least one more year as a Texan, and having groomed Graham to be a starter this year, that equals 2 quality TEs. Or, if Graham looks like crap, then Casey's up to bat. That means there's no problem with getting a TE in the lower rounds at least for depth this year. Next year might be different.

I don't see Graham as anything but depth. If he had any ability I think he wold of made more than one catch in the last couple of years. Hope I'm wrong on that one for sure! As I stated in my mock, I believe there is a high possibility that OD could be let go next year. Fleener would be great insurance if that were to happen.

OT - Just not sure the Texans take OL this high either when obviously the Texans are sending the signal that they have the depth the like. Maybe.

Are they sending that signal or did they just get raided? I think the latter. We will find out soon.

Martin, Childs, Wolfe, Cole & Sweezy. I love all these picks by round. If any late round WR could be a difference maker right away it would be Childs.

After his pro day its unlikely he falls this far but if he did I would jump on him. I considered picking him in the third but Martin looks like he is going to be a solid rotation guy that fits well into our scheme and blue print type player and Childs is coming off injury so.... I also really like Ryan Broyles of Oklahoma if he's there late for slot and return duties.

FB - I think it's wasted pick this high on Rodriguez

I really like this guy. He is a Casey clone as far as ability and game type. I don't think we need a sledge hammer type. If we really want one of those Owen Schmidt (sp?) could be had really cheap via FA. Playing fullback is taxing on players and with Rodriguez backing up Casey it would ensure that we wouldn't have to deviate from our game plan when Casey was getting a break. Thats pretty good value for a late 6th round pick IMO.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Nawzer (Post 1929807)
I like this mock. I think Fleener is a better TE than any of the receivers that will available for us to draft. We need a red zone guy and with Dressen gone, we'll need someone to fill his gap. It's unlikely, but a bold pick imo.

We have to have another reliable red zone threat or we are going to be in big trouble. The last thing we need is to start kicking field goals over and over in the red zone again. Remember that? Maybe we can find that later in the draft I don't know but IMO Fleener looks like he comes in and contributes right away in that role.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insideop (Post 1929823)
I like players 1 through 5 and would be happy if the Draft fell this way. Having said that, I don't think the Texans would go with Fleener in the 1st. Since Dreessen left I think they will draft another TE but probably later in the Draft. If they have him rated higher than any of the WR's, OLB's, ILB's, DE's, and DT's on the board when they pick in the 1st, then I guess it's possible. I just don't think they will go that way in the 1st.

Probably not! But I don't think it's a bad idea and I would be happy if we were to draft Fleener there.


Don't think they will get 2 DT's or pick a FB either. They can get a UDFA FB later. I would think they pick another QB late for development. We don't have enough QB's right now to go to camp. Also, if they don't sign Rackers, they may draft a Kicker for the 1st time. Bullock anyone?

I think we have to add depth on the DLine. We play to aggressively and our front seven will be wore out late in the year if we don't find some quality depth there. We very well could sign a FB in FA or as an UDFA. I just like Rodriquez because he brings versatility to the FB position like Casey.


Quote:

Originally Posted by beerlover (Post 1929938)
Seriously doubt Kubiak would take a TE in first.

Answered this above.

Schwartz is another tempting prospect but taking him here also presses his value higher out of need than it should.

Remember where we are drafting. He likely won't be there late third. He fits our mold and at the very least adds quality depth to a very depleted position. It's possible he could become a starter inside at some point this year. Reminds me alot of Breisel. His run blocking is very under rated.

Can't argue with Martin since he is here in my mock as well. Perfect rotational/depth NT who has starter mentality.
Childs hands are inconsistent, injury aside.

Looks fully recovered from injury. Has size and speed and playmaking ability. Would be a steal in the 4th round.

Wolfe won't last this late.

You're probably right. Still I hope somehow we end up with him.

Nor will Audi Cole, gone late 3rd/early 4th.

I don't see him going that high. I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time. That said I really like him.
Texans will probably pick up TE very late, or off waiver wire when teams trim rosters.

Most likely scenario.

Sweezy good late round developmental pick.

Yeh I really like him and Matt Conrath as late round guys for our D.


Quote:

Originally Posted by powda (Post 1930059)
I'd be on a rampage if we drafted a TE in the first round. Hate that pick.

That would be short sighted for reasons i stated above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by powda (Post 1930059)
Also I dont believe the texans will draft a true full back. They dont seem to value the position enough to spend picks or $$ on it.

We went out and signed Vickers last year in FA. They must value it a little. And Rodriguez isn't a "true fullback" in the traditional mold. He is a Casey type that is only an adequate blocker but bring the element of being a really good receiver out of the backfield and is really really good after the catch. When I say adequate blocker I mean he isn't going to bowl over to many people but knows how to use his body to seal off and puts good effort into it.

powda 04-03-2012 08:46 AM

Re: Mussops mock
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mussop (Post 1930366)
That would be short sighted for reasons i stated above.

Why do I feel like someone's trying to sale me snake oil? If you want to shake it up to get a response to your mock thats cool. If you genuinely believe we need a tight end in the first your short sighted. I dont doubt for a second we will draft a TE ,but to suggest its a priority need with all the other holes on this roster is short sighted. We have plenty of people whom can attack the defense horizontially on short crossing routes etc. What we dont have is anyone other then AJ who threatens deep (be it by speed or after the catch ability.)

I stand by my statement. If we draft a TE in the first i'll go ballistic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mussop (Post 1930366)
We went out and signed Vickers last year in FA. They must value it a little.

We sign players at all positions. They liked Vickers so much he's in Dallas now. Kubiak has never drafted a full back (don't chime in with Casey who was a hybrid do all in college).

beerlover 04-03-2012 08:56 AM

Re: Mussops mock
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by powda (Post 1930599)
Why do I feel like someone's trying to sale me snake oil? If you want to shake it up to get a response to your mock thats cool. If you genuinely believe we need a tight end in the first your short sighted. I dont doubt for a second we will draft a TE ,but to suggest its a priority need with all the other holes on this roster is short sighted. We have plenty of people whom can attack the defense horizontially on short crossing routes etc. What we dont have is anyone other then AJ who threatens deep (be it by speed or after the catch ability.)

I stand by my statement. If we draft a TE in the first i'll go ballistic.



We sign players at all positions. They liked Vickers so much he's in Dallas now. Kubiak has never drafted a full back (don't chime in with Casey who was a hybrid do all in college).

Kubiak views the TE position as one that can be developed easier than most with deep pool to draw from, similar case with FB. not going to pay them big bucks, Daniels deal was very generous (Rick Smith standards) exception to the rule.


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