Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com

Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/index.php)
-   Mock Draft Talk (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=64)
-   -   Thoughts: Trade Down and/or Acquisition of '13 1st Rounder? (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90711)

Ole Miss Texan 03-23-2012 04:31 PM

Thoughts: Trade Down and/or Acquisition of '13 1st Rounder?
 
I wanted to have a discussion here on thoughts for this upcoming draft, primarily about Trading. Clearly it depends on what players are available for us OR for a team coveting a certain player. I'd say this discussion is much more towards the idea and maybe some possible partners.

1) Trade down from our 1st for a 2nd rounder + later round pick. Sure depends how far as to what compensation we should receive... but are there teams you see possibly trading up to late 1st? Teams with multiple 2nd/3rd round selections that could be good trading partners?

2) Trading out to receive a 2013 1st Round pick. This one is much more outside the box because we've never done this in our history. But I absolutely love the NE Patriots draft days. They always seem to trade down and gain future 1st or 2nd round picks. Maybe this year is not the time, but I want us to get in that philosophy.

Possible Partners? The Oakland Raiders. Gone are the Crazy Al days (maybe)... but before compensatory picks are awarded, all they have is a 5th rounder and a 6th rounder. The should receive some decent comp picks though for losing Nnamdi et al. But the fact remains that would be END of the third / beginning of the 4th kind of pick.

Hypothetically how would you feel if we traded our 2nd round pick to the Raiders for their 4th rounder in 2012 and their 1st rounder in 2013? I'm not sure if this value would be fair (for us or them)... but mainly want to gauge the message board's opinions on this type of thinking.
Cheers!

beerlover 03-23-2012 04:44 PM

Re: Thoughts: Trade Down and/or Acquisition of '13 1st Rounder?
 
I feel the Texans will trade up not down. They have obvious holes that can be addressed via the draft, ILB, OLB, OT, OG, WR, FB, kicker/punter. Those are seven holes & a few could still be addressed via free agency now they have some cap room. In essence they only need to hit on three or four positional studs in the draft.

trade up for Kuechly

select OLB in 2nd Shea McClellin or Ronnell Lewis

WR in third, plenty to choose from.

OG/OT in the 4th

I do like both of your ideas too! :)

badboy 03-23-2012 04:53 PM

Re: Thoughts: Trade Down and/or Acquisition of '13 1st Rounder?
 
I would not be opposed to trading up for a player but not sure who that would be and what would have to be given up. I see more chance of a trade down but expect Texan to stay pat as of now. I would not trade down hoping for a first next year unless we get a high selection now as part of deal & depending on team. For example I prob would not trade our #26 to NE for a second this drft and a first next as I want impact players now.

A trade I have mentioned is #26 to Cleveland for second and third this year.

Doppelganger 03-23-2012 05:08 PM

Re: Thoughts: Trade Down and/or Acquisition of '13 1st Rounder?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan (Post 1924955)
I wanted to have a discussion here on thoughts for this upcoming draft, primarily about Trading. Clearly it depends on what players are available for us OR for a team coveting a certain player. I'd say this discussion is much more towards the idea and maybe some possible partners.

1) Trade down from our 1st for a 2nd rounder + later round pick. Sure depends how far as to what compensation we should receive... but are there teams you see possibly trading up to late 1st? Teams with multiple 2nd/3rd round selections that could be good trading partners?

2) Trading out to receive a 2013 1st Round pick. This one is much more outside the box because we've never done this in our history. But I absolutely love the NE Patriots draft days. They always seem to trade down and gain future 1st or 2nd round picks. Maybe this year is not the time, but I want us to get in that philosophy.

Possible Partners? The Oakland Raiders. Gone are the Crazy Al days (maybe)... but before compensatory picks are awarded, all they have is a 5th rounder and a 6th rounder. The should receive some decent comp picks though for losing Nnamdi et al. But the fact remains that would be END of the third / beginning of the 4th kind of pick.

Hypothetically how would you feel if we traded our 2nd round pick to the Raiders for their 4th rounder in 2012 and their 1st rounder in 2013? I'm not sure if this value would be fair (for us or them)... but mainly want to gauge the message board's opinions on this type of thinking.
Cheers!

Compensatory picks cannot be traded.

When constructing trade scenarios, first imagine what teams would want to trade up and who may they target.

Here are some potential 2nd round trade downs:
1. Minnesota. They need a CB. Maybe they jump up for Stephon Gilmore?
2. Carolina. They also need a CB. Maybe they jump up for Gilmore.
3. Miami desperately needs a rush linebacker or WR. Options here.
4. St. Louis need O line to protect Bradofrd. Maybe jump up for Adams, Glenn, Zeitler. etc.
5. KC needs interior OL. Maybe Konz, Glenn, Zeitler, Osemele, etc.

With any of these moves, here are some potential trades:
1. Minnesota gets 26, Texans get 2nd round+ 4th round+ a 3rd next year.
2. Carolina gets 26, Texans get 2nd round + 4th rounder + 3rd next year
3. Miami gets 26, Texans get 2nd rounder +3rd rounder
4. St. Louis gets 26, Texans get 2nd rounder(33) +4th and 5th next year
5. KC gets 26, Texans get 2nd round, 3rd round, and 5th this this year or 4th next year.

Doppelganger 03-23-2012 05:12 PM

Re: Thoughts: Trade Down and/or Acquisition of '13 1st Rounder?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beerlover (Post 1924960)
I feel the Texans will trade up not down. They have obvious holes that can be addressed via the draft, ILB, OLB, OT, OG, WR, FB, kicker/punter. Those are seven holes & a few could still be addressed via free agency now they have some cap room. In essence they only need to hit on three or four positional studs in the draft.

trade up for Kuechly

select OLB in 2nd Shea McClellin or Ronnell Lewis

WR in third, plenty to choose from.

OG/OT in the 4th

I do like both of your ideas too! :)

No thanks on Kuechly. He would be wasted here in Wade's 3-4. Wade plays more nickle and Kuechly would find himself on the bench a lot.

YES to Lewis or McClellin.

Agreed on 3rd.

OG/OT works for me in the 3rd/4th.

Doppelganger 03-23-2012 05:16 PM

Re: Thoughts: Trade Down and/or Acquisition of '13 1st Rounder?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badboy (Post 1924967)
I would not be opposed to trading up for a player but not sure who that would be and what would have to be given up. I see more chance of a trade down but expect Texan to stay pat as of now. I would not trade down hoping for a first next year unless we get a high selection now as part of deal & depending on team. For example I prob would not trade our #26 to NE for a second this drft and a first next as I want impact players now.

A trade I have mentioned is #26 to Cleveland for second and third this year.

Texans have traded down in the first round twice.
In 2005 they swapped spots with the Saints and picked everyone's favorite DT: Travis Johnson! Talk about a stinker of a first round selelction.

In 2008 the Texans traded down with the Ravens and took Duane Brown. I'd say that one worked pretty well.

I don't think they have ever traded up in the first. Could this be the year? Maybe not. They are in a salary crunch and I am not sure they want to add the $ guarantee contract a higher first rounder would cost. I think they stay put.

badboy 03-23-2012 05:23 PM

Re: Thoughts: Trade Down and/or Acquisition of '13 1st Rounder?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Doppelganger (Post 1924982)
Compensatory picks cannot be traded.

When constructing trade scenarios, first imagine what teams would want to trade up and who may they target.

Here are some potential 2nd round trade downs:
1. Minnesota. They need a CB. Maybe they jump up for Stephon Gilmore?
2. Carolina. They also need a CB. Maybe they jump up for Gilmore.
3. Miami desperately needs a rush linebacker or WR. Options here.
4. St. Louis need O line to protect Bradofrd. Maybe jump up for Adams, Glenn, Zeitler. etc.
5. KC needs interior OL. Maybe Konz, Glenn, Zeitler, Osemele, etc.

With any of these moves, here are some potential trades:
1. Minnesota gets 26, Texans get 2nd round+ 4th round+ a 3rd next year.
2. Carolina gets 26, Texans get 2nd round + 4th rounder + 3rd next year
3. Miami gets 26, Texans get 2nd rounder +3rd rounder
4. St. Louis gets 26, Texans get 2nd rounder(33) +4th and 5th next year
5. KC gets 26, Texans get 2nd round, 3rd round, and 5th this this year or 4th next year.

I'd not do 1&2. Prob would do 3; definitely would do #4 and #5 but want the 5th not 2013 4th.

beerlover 03-24-2012 08:28 AM

Re: Thoughts: Trade Down and/or Acquisition of '13 1st Rounder?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Doppelganger (Post 1924987)
No thanks on Kuechly. He would be wasted here in Wade's 3-4. Wade plays more nickle and Kuechly would find himself on the bench a lot.

Kuechly is absolutely the best cover LB I've ever seen why on earth would Wade ever take him out of the lineup, just because in the past he has never had the luxury of a player of his ability? He is smart, reads defenses, has leadership skills, even as a rookie to check down assingments & adjust on fly. He can run with any TE or RB, even most receivers underneath, waste hardly :smiliepalm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXSfQWM0f3Y

rmartin65 03-24-2012 08:33 AM

Re: Thoughts: Trade Down and/or Acquisition of '13 1st Rounder?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beerlover (Post 1925223)
Kuechly is absolutely the best cover LB I've ever seen why on earth would Wade ever take him out of the lineup, just because in the past he has never had the luxury of a player of his ability? He is smart, reads defenses, has leadership skills, even as a rookie to check down assingments & adjust on fly. He can run with any TE or RB, even most receivers underneath, waste hardly :smiliepalm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXSfQWM0f3Y

Exactly! Just because DeMeco could not cover, does not mean all ILB's cant cover. The nickel has two LBs on the field. I am certain that Kuechly will be one of our 2 best LBs in coverage.

Playoffs 03-24-2012 08:57 AM

Re: Thoughts: Trade Down and/or Acquisition of '13 1st Rounder?
 
I'm okay with trading down, not a fan of trading up. Trade up and you're minus one good player/prospect.

I don't think we're deep enough to trade out, yet. Perhaps next year if we plug enough holes.

Brandon420tx 03-24-2012 09:08 AM

Re: Thoughts: Trade Down and/or Acquisition of '13 1st Rounder?
 
We really don't need to trade up for anyone in this draft, (although there are 2-3 tasty choices that have a slim chance at falling to the late teen picks)

I've really felt the strength of this draft for the texans lies in the mid 2nd to late 4th round prospects, and we needed as many picks in that range as possible, so obviously I'm a big fan of trading out of the first round this season

beerlover 03-24-2012 09:09 AM

Re: Thoughts: Trade Down and/or Acquisition of '13 1st Rounder?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Playoffs (Post 1925233)
I'm okay with trading down, not a fan of trading up. Trade up and you're minus one good player/prospect.

I don't think we're deep enough to trade out, yet. Perhaps next year if we plug enough holes.

Texans are now in position to be a bit more "picky" (confident with Wade Phillips) bout who best fits scheme & when you have one guy who stands out clearly from the pack its time to make that move.

Lucky 03-24-2012 09:41 AM

Re: Thoughts: Trade Down and/or Acquisition of '13 1st Rounder?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Doppelganger (Post 1924982)
Compensatory picks cannot be traded.

As Doppelganger states, compensatory picks cannot be dealt. But, the Texans should have as many as 4 compensatory picks in 2013, 11 picks in all. That's a lot of picks and I would doubt all of these playes make the Texans roster.

Which is why I would favor using some of their regular 2013 picks to move up in the draft. Not necessarily in the first, but just to secure a player they really covet at some point in the draft. The Texans have 8 picks in this draft, and I would hate to see them spend any on a trade up.

I can count as many as 14 roster spots that will need to be filled in 2012. I would even consider trading some of next years picks (like a 2013 4th for a 2012 5th) just to get additional picks this year.

Doppelganger 03-24-2012 04:10 PM

Re: Thoughts: Trade Down and/or Acquisition of '13 1st Rounder?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beerlover (Post 1925223)
Kuechly is absolutely the best cover LB I've ever seen why on earth would Wade ever take him out of the lineup, just because in the past he has never had the luxury of a player of his ability? He is smart, reads defenses, has leadership skills, even as a rookie to check down assingments & adjust on fly. He can run with any TE or RB, even most receivers underneath, waste hardly :smiliepalm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXSfQWM0f3Y

Gotta disagree. Kuechly is a phenomenal prospect and a very good cover LB. But, at the end of the day he is still a LB. When teams put out multiple receivers in a passing situation, say 3rd and 6, would you want a DB covering a receiver or a LB? Generally you want the DB over the LB.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmartin65 (Post 1925225)
Exactly! Just because DeMeco could not cover, does not mean all ILB's cant cover. The nickel has two LBs on the field. I am certain that Kuechly will be one of our 2 best LBs in coverage.

Very true. But, in a 3-4 nickle, you have the 3 down lineman, 1 rush LB, 1 ILB, 2 safeties, and 3 CBs. So, how would that look?

---- Smith---Cody---Watt
Barwin/Reed----Cush
Jackson----McCain----Joseph
Quinn---Manning

In order for Kuechly to play, you would need to pull off Barwin/Reed or McCain. Would you be willing to pull off a pass rusher or extra DB for a cover LB? Kinda hard to go that route in my mind.

Doppelganger 03-24-2012 04:14 PM

Re: Thoughts: Trade Down and/or Acquisition of '13 1st Rounder?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky (Post 1925247)
As Doppelganger states, compensatory picks cannot be dealt. But, the Texans should have as many as 4 compensatory picks in 2013, 11 picks in all. That's a lot of picks and I would doubt all of these playes make the Texans roster.

Which is why I would favor using some of their regular 2013 picks to move up in the draft. Not necessarily in the first, but just to secure a player they really covet at some point in the draft. The Texans have 8 picks in this draft, and I would hate to see them spend any on a trade up.

I can count as many as 14 roster spots that will need to be filled in 2012. I would even consider trading some of next years picks (like a 2013 4th for a 2012 5th) just to get additional picks this year.

At the moment, we should be getting comp picks for Mario, Briesel, and possibly Dreesen (None for Winston since he was cut and none for Meco becuase he was traded.). But, it also depends on who the Texans sign as well. At the moment the Texans are -3 on FAs. If they sign a couple of vets, it is possible they may only get a single comp pick.

My philosophy is you never know what your comp picks could be or who may be there. If you see someone who can help your team, and the price is reasonable, I say go get him.

Lucky 03-24-2012 04:20 PM

Re: Thoughts: Trade Down and/or Acquisition of '13 1st Rounder?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Doppelganger (Post 1925388)
At the moment, we should be getting comp picks for Mario, Briesel, and possibly Dreesen (None for Winston since he was cut and none for Meco becuase he was traded.). But, it also depends on who the Texans sign as well. At the moment the Texans are -3 on FAs

-4 (Mario, Briesel, Jason Allen, Dreessen).

beerlover 03-24-2012 04:45 PM

Re: Thoughts: Trade Down and/or Acquisition of '13 1st Rounder?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Doppelganger (Post 1925386)
Gotta disagree. Kuechly is a phenomenal prospect and a very good cover LB. But, at the end of the day he is still a LB. When teams put out multiple receivers in a passing situation, say 3rd and 6, would you want a DB covering a receiver or a LB? Generally you want the DB over the LB.

You say "Kuechly is a phenomenal prospect" yet label him only as "a very good cover LB", seriously? isn't coverage part of the whole appealing phenomenal package? It's in error to seperate two because Wade Phillips best combination, in the past (w/DeMeco) was to drop in nickle cover on third downs. The two should not be confused or mistaken, in fact I would dare to guess Kuechly becomes leader of this defense in short order because he is so cerebral & fits in with his teammates so well. Wade Phillips success, to me has been his ablity through expereince putting his best playmakers on the field in position to succeed, to take a premier baller like Luke Kuechly out of the game for any reason other than injury is ridiculous :smiliepalm:

Rey 03-24-2012 08:15 PM

Re: Thoughts: Trade Down and/or Acquisition of '13 1st Rounder?
 
I do not want Kuechly...

I think he will be gone when we pick and I definitely wouldn't trade up for him...Drafting a MLB in the first round (and especially trading up for one) does not seem like a good idea.

76Texan 03-24-2012 09:27 PM

Re: Thoughts: Trade Down and/or Acquisition of '13 1st Rounder?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Doppelganger (Post 1925386)
Gotta disagree. Kuechly is a phenomenal prospect and a very good cover LB. But, at the end of the day he is still a LB. When teams put out multiple receivers in a passing situation, say 3rd and 6, would you want a DB covering a receiver or a LB? Generally you want the DB over the LB.



Very true. But, in a 3-4 nickle, you have the 3 down lineman, 1 rush LB, 1 ILB, 2 safeties, and 3 CBs. So, how would that look?

---- Smith---Cody---Watt
Barwin/Reed----Cush
Jackson----McCain----Joseph
Quinn---Manning

In order for Kuechly to play, you would need to pull off Barwin/Reed or McCain. Would you be willing to pull off a pass rusher or extra DB for a cover LB? Kinda hard to go that route in my mind.

It's not easy to win playing with only 10 men.
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

Wolf6151 03-25-2012 03:17 AM

Re: Thoughts: Trade Down and/or Acquisition of '13 1st Rounder?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan (Post 1924955)
I wanted to have a discussion here on thoughts for this upcoming draft, primarily about Trading. Clearly it depends on what players are available for us OR for a team coveting a certain player. I'd say this discussion is much more towards the idea and maybe some possible partners.

1) Trade down from our 1st for a 2nd rounder + later round pick. Sure depends how far as to what compensation we should receive... but are there teams you see possibly trading up to late 1st? Teams with multiple 2nd/3rd round selections that could be good trading partners?

2) Trading out to receive a 2013 1st Round pick. This one is much more outside the box because we've never done this in our history. But I absolutely love the NE Patriots draft days. They always seem to trade down and gain future 1st or 2nd round picks. Maybe this year is not the time, but I want us to get in that philosophy.

Possible Partners? The Oakland Raiders. Gone are the Crazy Al days (maybe)... but before compensatory picks are awarded, all they have is a 5th rounder and a 6th rounder. The should receive some decent comp picks though for losing Nnamdi et al. But the fact remains that would be END of the third / beginning of the 4th kind of pick.

Hypothetically how would you feel if we traded our 2nd round pick to the Raiders for their 4th rounder in 2012 and their 1st rounder in 2013? I'm not sure if this value would be fair (for us or them)... but mainly want to gauge the message board's opinions on this type of thinking.
Cheers!


1. Trading down really depends on who's available to us at #26, if all the good players we covet are gone then hell yea trade down for a 2nd and 3rd from a bad team. The only player that I can see a bad team willing to trade back into the 1st for is Ryan Tannehill-QB, Kirkpatrick, or Gilmore maybe someone like Miami but that's just a guess.

2. I'd have been willing to trade out of the 1st for a later round pick this year and a much better 1st next year if the Texans hadn't gone and created so many team holes. 2 months ago everyone was looking forward to taking a WR in the 1st and then going BPA the rest of the way but now that we got hosed in FA we've got new team holes to fill.

As for trading up, I'm against it. It would be too expensive and we need all the 2nd and 3rd round picks we can get this year.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:56 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger