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-   -   Lance Zierlein - Mock Draft Version 3 (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70284)

beerlover 03-12-2010 06:09 PM

Lance Zierlein - Mock Draft Version 3
 
http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2010_nfl_draft/

Quote:

20. Houston Texans - Ryan Matthews, RB, Fresno State: If there is one thing I know about Gary Kubiak it is that he will not let the running game suffer like it did last year no matter how proficient the passing game is. The Texans play-action game requires teams to respect the run, but if they don't do any better than they did last year, teams are going to stop biting on the play-fake and start sitting on the pass. Matthews is a one-cut back with good quickness and exceptional balance and he gives the Texans the type of back they can use all over the field and even on third downs if they like.
best mock I've seen to date :)

Errant Hothy 03-12-2010 06:14 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein - Mock Draft Version 3
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beerlover (Post 1382193)

Passing on Haden to take Matthews...no thanks.

rmartin65 03-12-2010 06:21 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein - Mock Draft Version 3
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy (Post 1382196)
Passing on Haden to take Matthews...no thanks.

I concur. If by some miracle Haden drops to us, the Texans better run to that podium. He is legit as shit.

beerlover 03-12-2010 06:23 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein - Mock Draft Version 3
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy (Post 1382196)
Passing on Haden to take Matthews...no thanks.

Haden is smaller than the Texans like. I think this is more a reason for passing than his forty time, game film shows his football speed is fine.

Matthews is the best RB in draft who fits what Texans want :specnatz:

IDEXAN 03-12-2010 06:54 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein - Mock Draft Version 3
 
FWIW - LZs top 5 are all Big 12 players.
I still won't believe Kubiak uses his #1 on a back until I see it. He's too confidant and has too much hubris re his own ability to think he can't find a better value in later rounds, especially for running backs. Don't ever forget the great Terril Davis was a 6th rounder.

The Cush 03-12-2010 06:58 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein - Mock Draft Version 3
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy (Post 1382196)
Passing on Haden to take Matthews...no thanks.


Haden's not even the first corner back taken on this mock? He has Kyle Wilson going 2 picks higher

Ole Miss Texan 03-12-2010 07:01 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein - Mock Draft Version 3
 
Joe Haden Joe Haden Joe Haden!!!!

Would you pass on Darrelle Revis because of his size? Now if they don't think Haden could be successful in this system, them I'm fine with not drafting him. I just value a potential shutdown CB higher than a RB in this system. But his size is fine. Same as Revis, Bigger than Dunta, same as Reeves, same height as Quin but 11 lbs lighter (based on nfl.com / cbs draft info), roughly the same size as Champ Bailey. I mean he's what, 5'11 and 194 lbs?

Take Haden and then reach for Ben Tate in the 2nd and we be good. Matthews may be THE running back (Chris Johnson for illustrative purposes) of this years draft.... but I take Jonathan Stewart in the 2nd as a consolation prize when I draft Darrelle Revis in the 1st!!

awtysst 03-12-2010 08:04 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein - Mock Draft Version 3
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beerlover (Post 1382193)

Really? I did not think it was all that good.
1. I don't see Suh falling all the way to 5. I see Suh in Detroit. Schwartz is a D coach and he just got Van Den Bosch. I could see him grabbing Suh to strengthen his line. At worst, I see TB grabbing him.

2. With Joe Haden and Kyle Wilson on the board the Texans take Matthews?! Really? Why? Haden is easily the best CB in the draft. He played great defense in the tough SEC division. Plus he comp-leltey shut down Alabama's stud wr Julio Jones. Keep in mind that Julio Jones is 6'4 214 lbs and Haden is 5'11 193lbs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beerlover (Post 1382198)
Haden is smaller than the Texans like. I think this is more a reason for passing than his forty time, game film shows his football speed is fine.

I really disagree with this statement. Lets take a look at the Texans DBs:

Quinn: 6'0, 203lbs
McCain: 5'9, 179lbs
Reeves: 5'11, 188lbs
Parson: 5'10, 192lbs
Bennet:6'1, 200lbs
Moulden:6'1, 202lbs

Haden: 5'11, 193lbs

Haden is bigger than McCain and Parsons. He is the same height and is a few lbs heavier than Reeves. He is 1 inch shorter and 10lbs lighter than Quinn. He is 2 inches shorter and 7 and 9 lbs lighter than Bennett and Moulden respectively.

Haden really is not significantly shorter than the Texans CBs. He is basically the same size. 1 or 2 inches is not a huge difference, especially when he has shown he can cover a 6'4 receiver. As you said Haden's game film shows his football speed is fine and he has the speed tackling ability etc to shine in the NFL.

LonerATO 03-12-2010 08:13 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein - Mock Draft Version 3
 
After listening to Move the Sticks podcast and hearing DJ talk about Haden I would pass on him and take Mathews. DJ talked about how Haden was used as a boundary CB and usually the Florida D put their other CB on the best WR. I went back and watched and watched some film on Haden and I agree. I think his 40 showed that he will have trouble keeping up with WR's.

beerlover 03-12-2010 08:14 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein - Mock Draft Version 3
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan (Post 1382208)
Joe Haden Joe Haden Joe Haden!!!!

Would you pass on Darrelle Revis because of his size? Now if they don't think Haden could be successful in this system, them I'm fine with not drafting him. I just value a potential shutdown CB higher than a RB in this system. But his size is fine. Same as Revis, Bigger than Dunta, same as Reeves, same height as Quin but 11 lbs lighter (based on nfl.com / cbs draft info), roughly the same size as Champ Bailey. I mean he's what, 5'11 and 194 lbs?

Take Haden and then reach for Ben Tate in the 2nd and we be good. Matthews may be THE running back (Chris Johnson for illustrative purposes) of this years draft.... but I take Jonathan Stewart in the 2nd as a consolation prize when I draft Darrelle Revis in the 1st!!

My point was people are over reacting to his mid 4.5 times @ the combine & in fact the reason why some teams (like Texans) might downgrade him is size 5'10" 190 (you don't think this factored in Texans decision in re-signing Dunta, 5'10"?). Revis is 5'11" & a very solid 200 (thick) SAME SIZE AS Glover Quinn, remind you selected in 4th round, which suggests regardless of position, you can scout a player to fill any position later including CB it's just the odds favor those rated higher, but thats what makes scouting so appealing to me. Take a physical freak like Akwasi Owusu-Ansah in 2nd (higher than any projection I've seen so far) put that frame thru an NFL workout @ over 6'0 200+ lbs runs mid 4.3's then go back @ watch his tape. I'd like that combo of Matthews/Awaski over Haden/Tate. But that's why we come here to exchange viewpoints, I respect your opinion & you mine, beleive me I can think of worse things than Joe Haden, it's all good :specnatz:

beerlover 03-12-2010 08:30 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein - Mock Draft Version 3
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by awtysst (Post 1382242)
Really? I did not think it was all that good.
1. I don't see Suh falling all the way to 5. I see Suh in Detroit. Schwartz is a D coach and he just got Van Den Bosch. I could see him grabbing Suh to strengthen his line. At worst, I see TB grabbing him.

2. With Joe Haden and Kyle Wilson on the board the Texans take Matthews?! Really? Why? Haden is easily the best CB in the draft. He played great defense in the tough SEC division. Plus he comp-leltey shut down Alabama's stud wr Julio Jones. Keep in mind that Julio Jones is 6'4 214 lbs and Haden is 5'11 193lbs.



I really disagree with this statement. Lets take a look at the Texans DBs:

Quinn: 6'0, 203lbs
McCain: 5'9, 179lbs
Reeves: 5'11, 188lbs
Parson: 5'10, 192lbs
Bennet:6'1, 200lbs
Moulden:6'1, 202lbs

Haden: 5'11, 193lbs

Haden is bigger than McCain and Parsons. He is the same height and is a few lbs heavier than Reeves. He is 1 inch shorter and 10lbs lighter than Quinn. He is 2 inches shorter and 7 and 9 lbs lighter than Bennett and Moulden respectively.

Haden really is not significantly shorter than the Texans CBs. He is basically the same size. 1 or 2 inches is not a huge difference, especially when he has shown he can cover a 6'4 receiver. As you said Haden's game film shows his football speed is fine and he has the speed tackling ability etc to shine in the NFL.

I give high marks for orginality. I'm about mocked out already & its still early March so when something comes along filled with obvious work/sources I applaud it :clap:

who has Suh going 5th? nobody but it makes perfect sense, he would be a premier 3-4 DE I can see it. If he goes to Detroit he will struggle to have the same success as so many premium prospects have because they don't project players into the best fit. They need to protect last years #1 pick QB Stafford with the highest rated OT.

Haden is under 5'11" but no matter Quinn has done nicely as a 4th rd. pick & I love Brices upside & deep cover ability no way Haden could catch his jock in a sprint, so we'll have to disagree. When I watch Haden on tape what jumps out to me is how well he uses his hands & reach. footwork is sound too, but I just see him being over matched against bigger NFL WR's or stretched deep forcing him more into a cover 2 instead of press corner which again is what the Texans like to do.

beerlover 03-12-2010 08:49 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein - Mock Draft Version 3
 
Quote:

10. Jacksonville Jaguars - Earl Thomas, CB/FS, Texas: When trying to assess what a team might do in the draft, it isn't enough to just look at their draft history or their depth chart. The Jaguars have to take on the Texans and Colts passing attacks and that means upgrading the secondary. Whether Thomas plays CB or FS, the Jaguars would be adding a good football player to their secondary.
another example of a great pick, not that I want a divsional rival to make the correct evaluation........but something to think about if your the Texans? establishing a potent running game would be a great counter-attack :)

ArlingtonTexan 03-12-2010 09:02 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein - Mock Draft Version 3
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beerlover (Post 1382260)
another example of a great pick, not that I want a divsional rival to make the correct evaluation........but something to think about if your the Texans? establishing a potent running game would be a great counter-attack :)

The biggest issue with this one that Jacksonville picked a FS type only a couple years back. Not a position where teams usually double up that quickly even if the player, reggie Nelson, looks to be a bust.

beerlover 03-12-2010 09:12 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein - Mock Draft Version 3
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan (Post 1382266)
The biggest issue with this one that Jacksonville picked a FS type only a couple years back. Not a position where teams usually double up that quickly even if the player, reggie Nelson, looks to be a bust.

Titans.

2006 - LenDale White #45 overall
2007 - Chris Henry #50 overall
2008 - Chris Johnson #24 overall

if first you don't suceed, try, try, try again.

ArlingtonTexan 03-12-2010 09:23 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein - Mock Draft Version 3
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beerlover (Post 1382269)
Titans.

2006 - LenDale White #45 overall
2007 - Chris Henry #50 overall
2008 - Chris Johnson #24 overall

if first you don't suceed, try, try, try again.

Talking about 2nd rounders versus two mid to high firsts

and a position FS, that is rarely taken in the first. Unless Nelson or Thomas is moving to corner, don't see it.

beerlover 03-12-2010 09:28 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein - Mock Draft Version 3
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan (Post 1382275)
Talking about 2nd rounders versus two mid to high firsts

and a position FS, that is rarely taken in the first. Unless Nelson or Thomas is moving to corner, don't see it.

was just thinking about their track record of taking WR in first if thats more applicable or how about DE?

serious for a minute this is player specific, meaning Earl Thomas is a terrific safety prospect.

ArlingtonTexan 03-12-2010 09:40 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein - Mock Draft Version 3
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beerlover (Post 1382276)
was just thinking about their track record of taking WR in first if thats more applicable or how about DE?

serious for a minute this is player specific, meaning Earl Thomas is a terrific safety prospect.

Actually, Jacksonville stack drafts more than most teams see OT, DE and Wr over the last few years, but I am not sure that has proven to be a good strategy for them as those are all weak or need positions.

Not impossible, but out of ordinary for a position where only 1 of them is normally on the field.

beerlover 03-12-2010 09:50 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein - Mock Draft Version 3
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan (Post 1382280)
Actually, Jacksonville stack drafts more than most teams see OT, DE and Wr over the last few years, but I am not sure that has proven to be a good strategy for them as those are all weak or need positions.

Not impossible, but out of ordinary for a position where only 1 of them is normally on the field.

maybe the two go hand in hand? the Texans push to generate a pass rush met by Jaq's addressing OL & vise versa Texan needing to improve pass-pro taking Brown & revamping OL while they go DE. All the while fat cats Indy can have their cake & eat it too. the one time the Texans beat them was with a solid ground attack, Ron Dayne, whom they had no answer & couldn't stop the clock or get an unforced turnover, thank you Rosencopter. anyway I digress, what was I saying.......oh yeah we need to beat those turds, tick for tack :slapfight:

TheRealJoker 03-12-2010 10:48 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein - Mock Draft Version 3
 
If Haden is there he's BPA, but I am starting to warm up to the idea of Ryan Matthews... especially if we manage to resign Pitts to help shore up the interior OL.

Lucky 03-12-2010 10:52 PM

Re: Lance Zierlein - Mock Draft Version 3
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by awtysst (Post 1382242)
2. With Joe Haden and Kyle Wilson on the board the Texans take Matthews?! Really? Why? Haden is easily the best CB in the draft. He played great defense in the tough SEC division.

I agree that Haden's size shouldn't make an impact on his draft status. And that Haden has had an outstanding collegiate career. But, there may be some underlying reasons (aside from his combine 40 time) that could cause Haden to slip to the bottom half of the 1st round.

1) Haden played a lot of underneath coverage at Florida. The Gators were able to put a lot of pressure on the opposing QBs, thus leaving a shorter field to cover. If you were to describe Haden's play thus far, it would be similar to a cover 2 type CB. And I don't know how much cover 2 the Texans plan to play.

2) The SEC, while a tough division, has had mediocre passing offenses recently. Haden rarely had to face the type of passing attack a Big 12 corner saw on a weekly basis. OK, he shut down Julio Jones. How good is Julio Jones and the Tide passing game, anyway?

I wouldn't be upset at the Texans selecting a productive CB like Haden. But, I won't get too upset if they wait a round or two, either. There should be enough CBs in this draft to grab one later.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beerlover (Post 1382245)
Take a physical freak like Akwasi Owusu-Ansah in 2nd (higher than any projection I've seen so far) put that frame thru an NFL workout @ over 6'0 200+ lbs runs mid 4.3's then go back @ watch his tape.

OK, just how much Indiana (Pa.) tape is available to watch?


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