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-   -   2010 Draft Philosophy - Immediate impact (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69443)

ToxicButt 02-08-2010 09:29 PM

2010 Draft Philosophy - Immediate impact
 
Maybe I'm imposing my personal impatience or that of Texans fans onto Kubiak and Smith. However, I have to believe that they feel 2010 is the year they need to break through. Schaub took a big step forward. AJ remains elite. We have an elite passing attack. The defense is improved and has a foundation of youth that will continue to improve. Much more so than 2008 and 2009, there's no excuse for not making the playoffs in 2010.

How does this impact their draft philosophy, particularly Rounds 1-3.

1. We need to draft players that will have immediate impact. We need another Cushing type addition, possibly 2.

2. I think Pollard and Dunta will be brought back. It is very rare to have a CB take over as a starter as a rookie. I don't know that anyone other than Hayden projects to that type of rookie. Continued improvement on defense is going to come from Dunta being 1 more year removed/recovered from the surgery and injury, from continuity, and from young players improving.

3. In think we wanted Coffee or Shonn Greene last year, and they were taken before our pick came up in the third round. I think at the time, Kubiak and Smith had strong misgivings about that. With our garbage run game, bare cupboard at RB, they can't let it happen again, and if anything, they'll overcompensate to make sure it doesnt.

4. Where does this leave the draft?

I think it's a lock they take Dwyer in the first round or Highest rated RB in second round. That would have the greatest impact on our team in 2010, no doubt about it.

From there, the next highest impact positoin is FS. I'd take highest rated, perhaps Thomas in Rd 1, or the BPA at FS in Round 2.

DT's are too big a gamble in the draft. To shore up the line, McNair just needs to spend the money.

Interior OL - I believe we can continue to stockpile talent and depth in the middle rounds. It's very possible to find startign caliber talent in the middle rounds.

Perhaps this is all elementary, but I think expectations and our experience from the 2009 draft will shape Kubiak's and Smith's behavior in the 2010 draft.

TheRealJoker 02-08-2010 09:59 PM

Re: 2010 Draft Philosophy - Immediate impact
 
Texans did a good job last year of drafting team captains and established college players. Only "project" was Barwin because it was his 2nd year on defense, but given the Antonio Smith signing it gave us the opportunity to add a true speed rusher which is another wrinkle this defense needed to add.

I hope its more of the same this season. I'd love to get another rookie with a Cushing-like impact!!!

Ole Miss Texan 02-08-2010 10:02 PM

Re: 2010 Draft Philosophy - Immediate impact
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ToxicButt (Post 1362713)
Maybe I'm imposing my personal impatience or that of Texans fans onto Kubiak and Smith. However, I have to believe that they feel 2010 is the year they need to break through. Schaub took a big step forward. AJ remains elite. We have an elite passing attack. The defense is improved and has a foundation of youth that will continue to improve. Much more so than 2008 and 2009, there's no excuse for not making the playoffs in 2010.

How does this impact their draft philosophy, particularly Rounds 1-3.

1. We need to draft players that will have immediate impact. We need another Cushing type addition, possibly 2.

2. I think Pollard and Dunta will be brought back. It is very rare to have a CB take over as a starter as a rookie. I don't know that anyone other than Hayden projects to that type of rookie. Continued improvement on defense is going to come from Dunta being 1 more year removed/recovered from the surgery and injury, from continuity, and from young players improving.

3. In think we wanted Coffee or Shonn Greene last year, and they were taken before our pick came up in the third round. I think at the time, Kubiak and Smith had strong misgivings about that. With our garbage run game, bare cupboard at RB, they can't let it happen again, and if anything, they'll overcompensate to make sure it doesnt.

4. Where does this leave the draft?

I think it's a lock they take Dwyer in the first round or Highest rated RB in second round. That would have the greatest impact on our team in 2010, no doubt about it.

From there, the next highest impact positoin is FS. I'd take highest rated, perhaps Thomas in Rd 1, or the BPA at FS in Round 2.

DT's are too big a gamble in the draft. To shore up the line, McNair just needs to spend the money.

Interior OL - I believe we can continue to stockpile talent and depth in the middle rounds. It's very possible to find startign caliber talent in the middle rounds.

Perhaps this is all elementary, but I think expectations and our experience from the 2009 draft will shape Kubiak's and Smith's behavior in the 2010 draft.

I agree with your line of thinking that we need immediate impact from our rookies. Some solid football players like Cushing.

I definitely want Pollard back and am on the fence concerning Dunta. I basically want him re-signed solely for the reason that it opens our draft and we aren't forced to take a cb early (unless we get a FA). I do think CB's like Kyle Wilson, Perrish Cox and maybe even Patrick Robinson or Brandon Ghee have the chance to make immediate impact.

I could see them taking a RB early this year, as where that's usually not the M.O. I doubt they take Dwyer at 20 though. I think they're still going to take BPA b/c that player, no matter what position, will probably make an immediate impact. If we take a RB early, he's going to have to be the whole package. Runner, Receiver and BLOCKER.

Also, you bring up finding starting calibre OL in the middle rounds? I think that's possible but I don't see why the same can't be said about RB, too. I feel like this is a really deep class and we're going to be able to find contributers throughout the draft. I always look forward to what sort of things Kubiak and Smith can pull off during the draft and this year is certainly no different. I think we could end up talking about the 2010 draft like we do about the 2006!

ToxicButt 02-08-2010 11:05 PM

Re: 2010 Draft Philosophy - Immediate impact
 
my god, i look at my moniker of Toxicbutt and I'm reminded that I joined this board when my kid was in diapers, hence the name.

Ole Miss - I think RB is much greater a need than interior OL. Slaton is a huge question mark, which means we have nothing proven and are light on talent. While there will be backs available in the middle rounds, I'd lean toward picking a RB in the first or second round because that guy is going to get 10-15 carries a game, unless he's a bust. That's more impact than anyone else could make as a rookie.

As for the OL, i think our running game suffered greatly because Slaton wasn't healthy. He certainly wasn't quick to the hole and didn't read well. Also, the loss of Pitts hurt quite a bit. It can be credibly argued that our run blocking should be at least average if you bring back pitts and add some talent in the middle rounds. What's missing is a dynamic RB like what Slaton provided.

I'd love for CJ spiller to fall to us at 19 or 20, as Zerlein thinks he will. He's a playmaker period and would be hard to pass on.

I guess the bottom line to me is that there will be good talent in all rounds, but RB is unique because it presents the greatest opportunity to make an immediate and significant impact for us. With that in mind, if players are graded closely in the early rounds, I'd pick the RB.

TexCanada 02-08-2010 11:29 PM

Re: 2010 Draft Philosophy - Immediate impact
 
I'm a pretty firm believer that good to great RBs can be found after the first round. I really don't think we should go RB in the first. If the opportunity was there in the second I'd be happy with it, but I'd prefer Gerhart in the 3rd. Of course that is simply my opinion.

I'm a defense first kind of a guy, and I would like to see either Earl Thomas or Kyle Wilson in the first round. After that I would probably go for Dan Williams, but its starting to look like he will be gone by our pick.

Our secondary, as it stands right now, is a huge issue. It is so thin back there right now that I honestly think that 1 injury could cost us our chance at playoffs. We need some warm bodies in there for training camp to compete for spots. I would be very happy to see us pick up a FS and 2 CBs at some point in this draft. If we resign D-Rob then that could fill one of those CB positions.

HOU-TEX 02-09-2010 09:44 AM

Re: 2010 Draft Philosophy - Immediate impact
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ToxicButt (Post 1362713)
Maybe I'm imposing my personal impatience or that of Texans fans onto Kubiak and Smith. However, I have to believe that they feel 2010 is the year they need to break through. Schaub took a big step forward. AJ remains elite. We have an elite passing attack. The defense is improved and has a foundation of youth that will continue to improve. Much more so than 2008 and 2009, there's no excuse for not making the playoffs in 2010.

How does this impact their draft philosophy, particularly Rounds 1-3.

1. We need to draft players that will have immediate impact. We need another Cushing type addition, possibly 2.

2. I think Pollard and Dunta will be brought back. It is very rare to have a CB take over as a starter as a rookie. I don't know that anyone other than Hayden projects to that type of rookie. Continued improvement on defense is going to come from Dunta being 1 more year removed/recovered from the surgery and injury, from continuity, and from young players improving.

3. In think we wanted Coffee or Shonn Greene last year, and they were taken before our pick came up in the third round. I think at the time, Kubiak and Smith had strong misgivings about that. With our garbage run game, bare cupboard at RB, they can't let it happen again, and if anything, they'll overcompensate to make sure it doesnt.

4. Where does this leave the draft?

I think it's a lock they take Dwyer in the first round or Highest rated RB in second round. That would have the greatest impact on our team in 2010, no doubt about it.

From there, the next highest impact positoin is FS. I'd take highest rated, perhaps Thomas in Rd 1, or the BPA at FS in Round 2.

DT's are too big a gamble in the draft. To shore up the line, McNair just needs to spend the money.

Interior OL - I believe we can continue to stockpile talent and depth in the middle rounds. It's very possible to find startign caliber talent in the middle rounds.

Perhaps this is all elementary, but I think expectations and our experience from the 2009 draft will shape Kubiak's and Smith's behavior in the 2010 draft.

Quin became a starter for us as a 4th round CB.

It's easy to say go out and shore up a particular position, but it ain't that easy. Especially this year where free agency's going to suck compared to previous season's due to the CBA. McNair can't go out and "spend the money" if there isn't much to spend it on

HuttoKarl 02-09-2010 11:00 AM

Re: 2010 Draft Philosophy - Immediate impact
 
In the past few drafts, we've gotten spectacular to solid talent in the early rounds. We got a Pro-Bowler DE, MLB and OLB. We parlayed a couple 2nd rounders into a Pro-Bowl QB. We have a RT that any team would like to have.

If we expect our secondary and Offensive line and Running game to improve, we need to stop hoping late round picks work out and grab first and second rounders in those positions to immediately upgrade.

ToxicButt 02-09-2010 11:52 AM

Re: 2010 Draft Philosophy - Immediate impact
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HuttoKarl (Post 1362911)
In the past few drafts, we've gotten spectacular to solid talent in the early rounds. We got a Pro-Bowler DE, MLB and OLB. We parlayed a couple 2nd rounders into a Pro-Bowl QB. We have a RT that any team would like to have.

If we expect our secondary and Offensive line and Running game to improve, we need to stop hoping late round picks work out and grab first and second rounders in those positions to immediately upgrade.

Well said. It's about priorities and we absolutely have to make an impact on the running game through the draft.

Big Lou 02-09-2010 02:11 PM

Re: 2010 Draft Philosophy - Immediate impact
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TexCanada (Post 1362756)
I'm a pretty firm believer that good to great RBs can be found after the first round. I really don't think we should go RB in the first. If the opportunity was there in the second I'd be happy with it, but I'd prefer Gerhart in the 3rd. Of course that is simply my opinion.

I'm a defense first kind of a guy, and I would like to see either Earl Thomas or Kyle Wilson in the first round. After that I would probably go for Dan Williams, but its starting to look like he will be gone by our pick.

Our secondary, as it stands right now, is a huge issue. It is so thin back there right now that I honestly think that 1 injury could cost us our chance at playoffs. We need some warm bodies in there for training camp to compete for spots. I would be very happy to see us pick up a FS and 2 CBs at some point in this draft. If we resign D-Rob then that could fill one of those CB positions.

I agree!

Although I can appreciatte wanting a great DT, our DL was a millisecond late on sacks so many times this year. A Blue Chip FS could add that millisecond the DL needs. I think that helping our secondary would make our DL look a lot better than it did this last year. Pollard proved he was much better in coverage than he's ussually give credit for, if we had a ball hawk at FS, QB's would really have to work harder for what they get!!!!!

krocket 02-09-2010 02:37 PM

Re: 2010 Draft Philosophy - Immediate impact
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ToxicButt (Post 1362750)
my god, i look at my moniker of Toxicbutt and I'm reminded that I joined this board when my kid was in diapers, hence the name.

Anyway the draft goes, that is a very relieving thought, at first I thought it was your nick name. It could happen !

krocket 02-09-2010 02:48 PM

Re: 2010 Draft Philosophy - Immediate impact
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HOU-TEX (Post 1362855)
It's easy to say go out and shore up a particular position, but it ain't that easy. Especially this year where free agency's going to suck compared to previous season's due to the CBA. McNair can't go out and "spend the money" if there isn't much to spend it on

There are a good number of restricted free-agents including some pro-bowlers. It is not cheap to procure a RFA, but it can and has been done. This year may a good one to give it a try since there are some teams that may not have the money to compete with us. So I guess I just can't agree with your statement.

badboy 02-09-2010 03:32 PM

Re: 2010 Draft Philosophy - Immediate impact
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by krocket (Post 1363035)
There are a good number of restricted free-agents including some pro-bowlers. It is not cheap to procure a RFA, but it can and has been done. This year may a good one to give it a try since there are some teams that may not have the money to compete with us. So I guess I just can't agree with your statement.

Unfortunately, it is not just a money issue. RFA cost draft picks also. That is the huge problem. To get a starter you may have to give up at least a first and maybe more. I am not willing to do that for most RFA.
:barman:

HOU-TEX 02-09-2010 04:08 PM

Re: 2010 Draft Philosophy - Immediate impact
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by krocket (Post 1363035)
There are a good number of restricted free-agents including some pro-bowlers. It is not cheap to procure a RFA, but it can and has been done. This year may a good one to give it a try since there are some teams that may not have the money to compete with us. So I guess I just can't agree with your statement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by badboy (Post 1363043)
Unfortunately, it is not just a money issue. RFA cost draft picks also. That is the huge problem. To get a starter you may have to give up at least a first and maybe more. I am not willing to do that for most RFA.
:barman:

What badboy said. I've never been high on trading picks away. Unless the RFA is clearly more talented than what his team tendered him, I'll pass.

badboy 02-09-2010 04:15 PM

Re: 2010 Draft Philosophy - Immediate impact
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HOU-TEX (Post 1363062)
What badboy said. I've never been high on trading picks away. Unless the RFA is clearly more talented than what his team tendered him, I'll pass.

HouTex, even more so this draft, right? I am very happy that we should be able to land some very solid draft prospects this draft. We want more picks and some one mentioned trade down. Do you see any reasonable scenario of a trade being offer to Texans? I do not. The Duane Brown scenario was the exception not the rule as Joe Flacco was available.

infantrycak 02-09-2010 04:18 PM

Re: 2010 Draft Philosophy - Immediate impact
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badboy (Post 1363065)
HouTex, even more so this draft, right? I am very happy that we should be able to land some very solid draft prospects this draft. We want more picks and some one mentioned trade down. Do you see any reasonable scenario of a trade being offer to Texans? I do not. The Duane Brown scenario was the exception not the rule as Joe Flacco was available.

Absolutely. Late 1st round trading is prevalent. All it takes is one team enamored with a player or a position. May not be a dramatic trade - as you say a type trade. I'll take an extra 2nd thru 4th depending on the situation.

badboy 02-09-2010 04:25 PM

Re: 2010 Draft Philosophy - Immediate impact
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by infantrycak (Post 1363066)
Absolutely. Late 1st round trading is prevalent. All it takes is one team enamored with a player or a position. May not be a dramatic trade - as you say a type trade. I'll take an extra 2nd thru 4th depending on the situation.

I tend to agree as the players I want can be had later than #20. We got a third and a sixth and swapped firsts two years ago. You think a #2 is reasonable? If I could land Kyle WIlson any where in late first and get another 2nd rounder, wow!

ArlingtonTexan 02-09-2010 04:33 PM

Re: 2010 Draft Philosophy - Immediate impact
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by krocket (Post 1363035)
There are a good number of restricted free-agents including some pro-bowlers. It is not cheap to procure a RFA, but it can and has been done. This year may a good one to give it a try since there are some teams that may not have the money to compete with us. So I guess I just can't agree with your statement.

I think the best use of this strategy is when you see a guy with a minimium tender which will require a late round pick versus the earlier rounds. We have done this twice. Once we got Kevin Walter for a 7th and the other we got Myers.

RFA who have higher tender require both a large dollar contract and the lost of high draft picks meaning the player needs to be a true difference making player for it to be worthwhile.

Dutchrudder 02-09-2010 04:38 PM

Re: 2010 Draft Philosophy - Immediate impact
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ToxicButt (Post 1362713)
....

DT's are too big a gamble in the draft. To shore up the line, McNair just needs to spend the money.

Interior OL - I believe we can continue to stockpile talent and depth in the middle rounds. It's very possible to find startign caliber talent in the middle rounds.

Perhaps this is all elementary, but I think expectations and our experience from the 2009 draft will shape Kubiak's and Smith's behavior in the 2010 draft.

Here are a few potential free agent defensive lineman this year:

Marcus Spears (3-4)
Mark Anderson
Jason Hatcher (3-4)
Elvis Dumervil
Johnny Jolly
Aaron Kampman
Ryan Pickett
Travis Johnson
Jason Fergueson (3-4)
Jarvis Green (3-4)
Richard Seymour (3-4)
Fred Robbins
Derrick Burgess
Casey Hampton (3-4)
Brett Keisel (3-4)
Darryl Tapp
Jevon Kearse
Kyle Vanden Bosch
Jason Taylor

There are a few names that might be worth a look on there. I like Johnny Jolly since he is a bit younger than most of the big names on there.

ArlingtonTexan 02-09-2010 04:41 PM

Re: 2010 Draft Philosophy - Immediate impact
 
Speaking generally on the point of this thread. The drafting Brian Cushing of the world as far the exception to the rule. He was a rookie who looked like Romonowski in the peek of his career and was a top 5 SLB in the NFL. This sort of impact is not "normal."

The good new for the Texans, is that couple of position that many think they need are found regularly (not just in the first round either). RB and FS are often contribute early. OG/c don't have to be early picks, but ususally take a year or two. The good news at DT is this is one of the best DT drafts in quite awhile as it has impact at the top and depth available most rounds.

threetoedpete 02-10-2010 03:01 AM

Re: 2010 Draft Philosophy - Immediate impact
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ToxicButt (Post 1362750)

As for the OL, i think our running game suffered greatly because Slaton wasn't healthy. He certainly wasn't quick to the hole and didn't read well. Also, the loss of Pitts hurt quite a bit. It can be credibly argued that our run blocking should be at least average if you bring back pitts and add some talent in the middle rounds. What's missing is a dynamic RB like what Slaton provided.

I'd love for CJ spiller to fall to us at 19 or 20, as Zerlein thinks he will. He's a playmaker period and would be hard to pass on.

The reason Slaton is hurt is because....say it with me...there were no holes. nada. Zilich. Zero.

Pick any of the first fourteen games you choose and if you love o-line play it flat out hurts to watch the carnage and slop. I love our young ZBS guys and they will develop. But they stunk up the house last year. You can look at the rushing stats and see they clearly weren't ready for prime time. Once they hit Miami, who was dinged up... which meant they were playing talent commiserate with theirs, they, the o-line, got on a roll. For two games. Now on the one hand you could say the "guys" were coming together and there is no need to address it early.

Or you could realize although the sky isn't quite falling.....they've got to hit at least a guy who will elevate the level of competition. And believing you're going to get that latter, possible, is setting your self up for another Charles Spencer type season. they gotta know about their rushing attack and they gotta know after the draft. If you see a free agent out there, please do tell. But if there are no holes, I don't care if the dude is fast as sin...he ain't going to be worth squat until the o-line starts blocking and making holes.

I highly doubt they take another sub 210 pound running back, not early anyway.


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