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-   -   Was the 2004 Draft overrated ? (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6300)

nunusguy 02-03-2005 01:29 PM

Was the 2004 Draft overrated ?
 
If you're a Texan fan, you gotta say no way because our top pick was
arguably, after Andre Johnston, the single best player acquisition we've
ever made and that includes the X Draft, Free Agency, and 3 college drafts. But what about the 9 players picked ahead of D-Rob ? Manning, Gallery, Fitzgerald, etc. all were pretty medicore when they played. Others didn't play
at all because of injury. I dunno, the cream of the great '04 crop isn't lookin so good right now. Maybe they were way overrated and this years class is
already being way underrated ?

V Man 02-03-2005 01:34 PM

Might be a little early to say that. It usually takes 2 to 3 years for LT to get accustom to the game and more for Qb's. Plus like you said several were injuried during the year (Hall and Fitzgerald).

El Tejano 02-03-2005 02:08 PM

Don't forget the soldier was injured during the season. Kellen Winslow Jr.

F-minus67 02-03-2005 02:45 PM

I think people expected all of the players mentioned to be NFL ready from the get go and turn around the franchises that chose them. Which it seems like Rothlisberger was the only one who did that.

texasguy346 02-03-2005 04:14 PM

Not many rookies are going to turn around a franchise in his first season. Fitzgerald had like 8TDs right? He also caught for somewhere around 700 yards. That's not bad considering he was going to a team with a QB being a starter for the first time in his career, and already had two young talented WRs. Add to that the QB shuffle by Green when he switched between Navarre and Blake during the season. I really think it's too early to tell how talented last year's draft was, but its important to take into consideration players like Micheal Clayton who had an outstanding rookie season despite not being among the first few WRs taken. Every draft is different, and the hype surrounding it is no different. Even though the 2005 draft isn't chalked full of big names I think there are a few positions where there is alot of quality depth (ie RB, DE).

El Tejano 02-03-2005 04:29 PM

What comes to mind is the amount of teams that drafted for future, like Buffalo. They drafted Lossiman knowing he wouldn't start right away.

ComstockLode 02-03-2005 05:17 PM

Repost this thread in three years..... Until then, speculating is worthless

TexansCanes 02-03-2005 06:41 PM

all it shows is that the defensive players in general were more nfl ready like normal. wait a few years to see what eli, phillip, gallerey, larry, and winslow do.

Fiddy 02-03-2005 07:18 PM

After one year it is overrated??? Give the class AT LEAST 3 years...

D-ReK 02-03-2005 07:41 PM

I'm gonna co-sign what everyone else has said...It's way too early to tell exactly how this class will end up...

Panther5407 02-03-2005 08:38 PM

Nope, great draft and lots of great players in the work.

nunusguy 02-04-2005 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComstockLode
Repost this thread in three years..... Until then, speculating is worthless

No, no you're missing the point. Rookie Pro Bowlers aren't common place, but
they aren't rarities either - Moss, Urlacher, Shockey come to mind in recent
years. This 2004 draft class was supposed to be legendary, one of the greatest ever, the crop of college talent for the ages. But outside of some hidden gems like D-Rob & Vilma, production on the field was very disappointing and few rose to the surface. With the hype this draft had, you'd expect some to reach national stardom their rookie year, but instead we got underachievers for the most part. The most hyped rookie after the season started, Big Ben, had some descent performances, but then collapsed and was a total choke job his last 2 games of the year.

Wild Bill 02-04-2005 08:38 AM

Don't forget Tommy Harris in Chicago. He have a very good rookie season as well. You mention rookie's that are Pro Bowl caliber straight from college. A lot of that has to do with obviously talent, and more importantly, opportunity. Dunta is a great player but was given more opportunity that most rookies get. Early in the season he didn't look good at all.

I think when it's all said and done, there a several taken in last years draft that will visit many Pro Bowls in their careers. There are also going to be the busts, like with every draft. It's not fair to judge them on their rookie seasons.

D-ReK 02-04-2005 08:56 AM

I think it's unfair to base the future of the "cream of the crop" on one year because half of the top 10 players drafted were injured at some point during the season and missed a few games, if not the season...

texasguy346 02-04-2005 09:08 AM

Well for starters I don't recall the 2004 draft being called 'one for the ages', but it did get hyped for having talent deep into the draft. I believe the 83 NFL Draft wasn't even called a draft for the ages even though it had Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, and John Elway all going in the first round. As far as Rothelisburger pulling a "total choke job" in his last 2 games I'm not sure what you're expectations were for a rookie QB. A rookie QB has never taken his team to the Super Bowl, and Big Ben was one game shy of doing just that. He broke several rookie QB records, and I believe he was the first QB to win the Offensive Rookie of the Year award. There is a reason why people say you have to wait a few years before grading out an NFL draft, and that reason is that every rookies situation is unique. Some rookies start off their NFL career in a limited role as a 3rd/4th WR or as a backup DT coming off the bench. Still other rookies, although talented, need work on their technique or at adjusting to the complicated plays in the NFL. If you're going to use the Pro Bowl as a judge for 'super talented' rookies then you're going to get an awfully mixed bag of rookies ranging from mediocre to great talents. If one conference lacks many playmaking WRs then its a little easier for a rookie WR to make the Pro Bowl for that conference. Just like if another conference has several great veteran WRs competing for a few WR Pro Bowl spots, then it makes it that much more difficult for that WR to make the Pro Bowl. If we use the Pro Bowl to judge how good rookies are then our very own DRob must be a bust because he didn't reach a Pro Bowl, and he most definately didn't achieve 'National Stardom' in his rookie campaign. What was CC thinking when he took him at 10? :shocked

Lucky 02-04-2005 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nunusguy
The most hyped rookie after the season started, Big Ben, had some descent performances, but then collapsed and was a total choke job his last 2 games of the year.

The last 2 games were the divisional playoff and the conference championship. Prior to the AFC championship game, Ben R. was undefeated as a starting QB. Among some of the other "decent performances":

* Michael Clayton had one of the better rookie seasons for a WR ever (80-1193-7)

* Lee Evans, Larry Fitzgerald, & Roy Williams had very good years for rookie WRs

* Kevin Jones rushed for over 1000 yards, Julius Jones was 5th in league in rushing yards/game, Steven Jackson led all RBs (with over 100 rushes) in yards/carry.

* Dunta Robinson, Jonathan Vilma, Sean Taylor, Michael Boulware, & DJ Williams developed into impact defenders & future Pro Bowlers.

* Robert Gallery, Tommie Harris, Kenechi Udeze, Jason Babin, & Chris Gamble emerged as solid starters.

* Alex Stepanovich, Nathan Vasher, Mewelde Moore, Glenn Earl, Gibril Wilson, Jacob Bell, & Erik Coleman were among the gems found in the draft's 2nd day.

And don't forget that Kellen Winslow II & Shawn Andrews were opening day starters whose seasons were cut short due to injury. This was a great draft already, and could be one of the best in years if young QBs Eli Manning & Philip Rivers develop. I'm not as down on this draft as some are, but it won't be in the class of last years crop.

beerlover 02-04-2005 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky
The last 2 games were the divisional playoff and the conference championship. Prior to the AFC championship game, Ben R. was undefeated as a starting QB. Among some of the other "decent performances":

* Michael Clayton had one of the better rookie seasons for a WR ever (80-1193-7)

* Lee Evans, Larry Fitzgerald, & Roy Williams had very good years for rookie WRs

* Kevin Jones rushed for over 1000 yards, Julius Jones was 5th in league in rushing yards/game, Steven Jackson led all RBs (with over 100 rushes) in yards/carry.

* Dunta Robinson, Jonathan Vilma, Sean Taylor, Michael Boulware, & DJ Williams developed into impact defenders & future Pro Bowlers.

* Robert Gallery, Tommie Harris, Kenechi Udeze, Jason Babin, & Chris Gamble emerged as solid starters.

* Alex Stepanovich, Nathan Vasher, Mewelde Moore, Glenn Earl, Gibril Wilson, Jacob Bell, & Erik Coleman were among the gems found in the draft's 2nd day.

And don't forget that Kellen Winslow II & Shawn Andrews were opening day starters whose seasons were cut short due to injury. This was a great draft already, and could be one of the best in years if young QBs Eli Manning & Philip Rivers develop. I'm not as down on this draft as some are, but it won't be in the class of last years crop.

add to Lucky's list: Will Smith really developed down the home stretch for the Saints as a future defensive star. Don't forget about Jason Babin who started in every game 5th on the Texans in tackles & 2nd in sacks. Daryl Smith LB was solid @ MLB for the Jaguars, Bob Sanders when healthy really flew around the secondary for the Colts, Michael Boulware changed positions in the NFL to FS & had a outstanding rookie season, Matt Ware gives the Superbowl Eagles depth in the secondary as does Vince Wilfork for the other Superbowl team the Patriots.

in regards to the top 10 picks, Eli Manning didn't begin to start until late in the season but really impressed me with his arm, decision making & poise. When the Raiders came to Relient to play the Texans I watched Gallery almost the whole game from the Bull Pen and if not the biggest player on the field the nastiest and will dominate at some point in the right situation. Fitz is in the same class as AJ, although more finesse, his hands are amazingly reactive to the ball & reminds me alot of Lynn Swann. Rivers, see Drew Brees. Sean Taylor, though a head case will mature into the most dominate safety in the NFL, if he doesn't self destruct maybe the best ever. Besides Winlsow having a year to recover from his broken leg, Romeo Crennel is coming to Cleveland, I expect BIG things from both (I think the Texans get to play them again next year). Roy Williams can be dominating. Hall also suffered a major injury, but after returning to the Falcons showed alot of potential to become the type of playmaker they expected when they drafted him. Out of the top 10 players only Reggie Williams dissapointed.

Blake 02-04-2005 10:16 AM

I dont think it is overrated. I just looked back at the last 2 years draft. You can see a huge difference from 2003-2004. And with the 2005 class. 2004 was packed full of stars, and depth.

2005 looks like its more depth than stars. And not that much depth.

keyfro 02-04-2005 05:50 PM

nah you can't say an entire draft was overrated...you have the injuried rookies plus you have 2 solid linebackers in dj williams and vilma...sean taylor prooved his worth...gallery is no where near a bust...and either is roy williams...and how are you gonna argue that steven jackson and kevin jones didn't make an impact for their teams

TexansCanes 02-04-2005 11:13 PM

Quote:

But outside of some hidden gems like D-Rob & Vilma
i don't know if you can call these guys hidden gems. anything inside the top 15 isn't a hidden gem.


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