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-   -   Lance Z's mock 2.0 (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59268)

barrett 03-02-2009 04:23 PM

Lance Z's mock 2.0
 
http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootba...3/post_78.html

Just saw this.

bah007 03-02-2009 04:28 PM

Re: Lance Z's mock 2.0
 
No offense to LZ because this isn't the first place I've seen this said, but how can a guy be a lock for the second overall pick but not good enough to be taken first overall?

The last guy I can remember who was supposed to be the unanimous #1 player didn't even go #1.

dalemurphy 03-02-2009 04:31 PM

Re: Lance Z's mock 2.0
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bah007 (Post 1131495)
No offense to LZ because this isn't the first place I've seen this said, but how can a guy be a lock for the second overall pick but not good enough to be taken first overall?

ask Mario Williams!

bah007 03-02-2009 04:32 PM

Re: Lance Z's mock 2.0
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dalemurphy (Post 1131501)
ask Mario Williams!

Exactly.

mussop 03-02-2009 04:33 PM

Re: Lance Z's mock 2.0
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bah007 (Post 1131495)
No offense to LZ because this isn't the first place I've seen this said, but how can a guy be a lock for the second overall pick but not good enough to be taken first overall?

The last guy I can remember who was supposed to be the unanimous #1 player didn't even go #1.

I cant speak for LZ but I think what what he means is that St. Louis is in all likelyhood going OT and after the combine Smith is a lock to be the first one taken. If so he is right IMO.

eriadoc 03-02-2009 04:34 PM

Re: Lance Z's mock 2.0
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bah007 (Post 1131495)
No offense to LZ because this isn't the first place I've seen this said, but how can a guy be a lock for the second overall pick but not good enough to be taken first overall?

The last guy I can remember who was supposed to be the unanimous #1 player didn't even go #1.

Yeah, I'm not understanding it either. I think pundits spend the entire season commenting on how great players did that were drafted later, and how inexact a science the draft is, then they lose their mind when it comes to making mocks. If a guy is good enough for the #2 overall pick, he's good enough for the #1 overall pick, if that's the argument.

barrett 03-02-2009 04:41 PM

Re: Lance Z's mock 2.0
 
I think sometimes a franchise gets into a situation where they are in desperate need of a "face". A clean start. In the NFL a QB represents that more often than not. Houston did it. Atlanta did it last year when many thought they had more pressing needs or guys better rated. It happens all the time.

I think Lance see's Detroit in that kind of situation. Therefore, the #1 guy falls to #2.

barrett 03-02-2009 04:43 PM

Re: Lance Z's mock 2.0
 
By the way, I'm suprised we've made it this many years with out a long haired white guy at LB. It's all the rage don't you know? This may be the end of our streak. I hope Cushing is better than A.J. Hawk. His name certainly isn't.

bah007 03-02-2009 04:48 PM

Re: Lance Z's mock 2.0
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mussop (Post 1131505)
I cant speak for LZ but I think what what he means is that St. Louis is in all likelyhood going OT and after the combine Smith is a lock to be the first one taken. If so he is right IMO.

I agree with that part.

But it seems like he is saying that it is okay for the Rams to take Smith #2 but he is not worth the #1 for the Lions?...

eriadoc 03-02-2009 04:49 PM

Re: Lance Z's mock 2.0
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mussop (Post 1131505)
I cant speak for LZ but I think what what he means is that St. Louis is in all likelyhood going OT and after the combine Smith is a lock to be the first one taken. If so he is right IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrett (Post 1131514)
I think sometimes a franchise gets into a situation where they are in desperate need of a "face". A clean start. In the NFL a QB represents that more often than not. Houston did it. Atlanta did it last year when many thought they had more pressing needs or guys better rated. It happens all the time.

I think Lance see's Detroit in that kind of situation. Therefore, the #1 guy falls to #2.

Yeah, I can think of plenty of reasons why it would shake out like LZ has it, but when LZ says, "Could the Lions use a LT like Jason Smith? Yes. Is he another Orlando Pace who was drafted with the first overall pick? No", then it makes me think he's going down a different line of reasoning altogether.

disaacks3 03-02-2009 05:16 PM

Re: Lance Z's mock 2.0
 
It'd be real interesting if Jenkins fell to us @15. Maybe D-Rob might be easier to negotiate with if there's someone on the other side that can help share the heat with. (and don't get me started on how badly we've needed a real FS for years)

beerlover 03-03-2009 03:16 AM

Re: Lance Z's mock 2.0
 
of course its a very good mock, he has both a trained eye & inside contacts. such as the Oakland pick of Darrius Heyword-Bey a very impressive receiver, has all the tools none of the question marks of Crabtree who he has going w/next pick to Jacksonville which I just can't buy with Andre Smith on the board. Texans Cushing yeah probably if he's still there? if not do they take Maybin or trade down he doesn't have my guy English even in the first rd.

Vontae Davis has some bust potential? even if there is a hint why would Detroit take that risk if they want to go CB take Butler who he's gift wraping for the Giants. Miami he has taking Brian Robiskie, you guys thought I was crazy for slotting him two picks later to the Colts? I really like the Unger pick to Baltimore.

:twocents:

BattleRedToro 03-03-2009 06:54 AM

Re: Lance Z's mock 2.0
 
If the draft pans out that way to #15 with Sanchez available, then I could see the Texans trading down with Tampa Bay, and possibly picking the best OLB available there, or trying to trade down again.

Blake 03-03-2009 07:51 AM

Re: Lance Z's mock 2.0
 
I don't think he ever said Smith is not good enough for the #1 pick, he just said he is no Orlando Pace. Maybe insinuating that hes not worth the #1 pick, but that would be silly to say since hes giving him #2 money with St Louis. I guess it depends on how to read it.

rarazz00 03-03-2009 08:08 AM

Re: Lance Z's mock 2.0
 
In terms of trading back, look who is behind us...SanDiego. The Jets are probably lookin' at QB and Tampa Bay too.. If LZ's mock were to hold true then Tampa Bay is gonna call SanDiego(who isn't looking for a QB, for a trade...they'll also ask us, just to cover their ass. I think SanDiego will get the first oppotunity for a trade before we will and that would be Tampa Bay doing the calling. Also the Jets and Tampa Bay may jump alot sooner before SanFransico picks just to be sure. I'm just saying we are not guarateed a dance partner with LZ's mock, though we have a chance.

threetoedpete 03-03-2009 11:13 AM

Re: Lance Z's mock 2.0
 
Any Mock that doesn't have one of the centers going in the first....I dismiss out of hand at this point in the process. And....as good a value as Clay Mathews is to the Colts....they have to have a WR for Manning's Machine. Robiskie fits. Practicing for hours....watching film for hours...takes some discipline. Hakeem Nixs works. Robiskie is locked and loaded to be their #2 first game in September.

threetoedpete 03-03-2009 11:24 AM

Re: Lance Z's mock 2.0
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rarazz00 (Post 1131926)
In terms of trading back, look who is behind us...SanDiego. The Jets are probably lookin' at QB and Tampa Bay too.. If LZ's mock were to hold true then Tampa Bay is gonna call San Diego(who isn't looking for a QB, for a trade...they'll also ask us, just to cover their ass. I think San Diego will get the first opportunity for a trade before we will and that would be Tampa Bay doing the calling. Also the Jets and Tampa Bay may jump alot sooner before SanFransico picks just to be sure. I'm just saying we are not guaranteed a dance partner with LZ's mock, though we have a chance.

Pretty good....anytime I hear a RB has a toe....that's panic time. Bolts have to have a Rb in case Ladanian's "toe" is chronic. Lot of RBs in the pile. Only a couple with the Field vision that LT has. and that line is a bit slew footed to block for a banger.

All the tweeners on the board they can afford to wait on the LB until the second.

That's a lot of value to jump from the teens into the top ten. Better be sold on the guy.

On the other hand....Orakpo falling to 13....that's a pin prick to move up. Think LZ panicked when Orakpo fell down his mock ? especaily if Denver is looking for the 3-4 De and by his own Mock Jarron Gilbert is a first rounder for back up if they lose Tyson Jackson by the move down. Denver would have no down side and little risk to move back with the Texans.

BattleRedToro 03-04-2009 06:26 AM

Re: Lance Z's mock 2.0
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rarazz00 (Post 1131926)
In terms of trading back, look who is behind us...SanDiego. The Jets are probably lookin' at QB and Tampa Bay too.. If LZ's mock were to hold true then Tampa Bay is gonna call SanDiego(who isn't looking for a QB, for a trade...they'll also ask us, just to cover their ass. I think SanDiego will get the first oppotunity for a trade before we will and that would be Tampa Bay doing the calling. Also the Jets and Tampa Bay may jump alot sooner before SanFransico picks just to be sure. I'm just saying we are not guarateed a dance partner with LZ's mock, though we have a chance.

Ok, in your scenario were the Jets and Tampa Bay both want Sanchez, he falls down the draft board, and Tampa Bay trades with San Diego before the Texans make their pick, what is to stop the Jets from trading with the Texans and getting Sanchez? Nothing.

rarazz00 03-04-2009 07:34 AM

Re: Lance Z's mock 2.0
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BattleRedToro (Post 1132764)
Ok, in your scenario were the Jets and Tampa Bay both want Sanchez, he falls down the draft board, and Tampa Bay trades with San Diego before the Texans make their pick, what is to stop the Jets from trading with the Texans and getting Sanchez? Nothing.

yes your right...the Jets know that Houston and SanDiego will not take a QB. so Sanchez would fall to them with out any trades for him. I don't think TampaBay will let this happen. Both clubs (Jets/Tampa Bay)know that they both want Sanchez, now enter the bidding...both clubs will already anticipate this and call Houston and SanDiego to let them know where they stand if Sanchez passes thru the clutches of San Fransico. I see that I mis spoke in my earlier quote..good catch "BattleRedToro"....:tiphat:

scourge 03-04-2009 10:30 AM

Re: Lance Z's mock 2.0
 
can someone post the mock?

I am blog blocked here at work...


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