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-   -   Maybe a CB with our first? (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5904)

texansalltheway 01-13-2005 09:23 PM

Maybe a CB with our first?
 
Back in 2002 Philadelphia spent 2 first day picks (a first and 2nd ) on two corner backs even though they had a premiere CB in Vincent anda good veteren in Bobby Taylor. Everyone qusetioned this move because they already have one of the best secondaries at that time. 3 yrs later and they still do even though both of their starters left in FA last year. Last draft they also picked up 3 DB and they continue to have success in the secondary. I can see the Texans taking some more DB in this years draft and Pac-Man Jones is the type of CB I could see us go after. He is pretty much identical to Dunta and look at what kind of influence he had on our team. Jones is also a vicious hitter and helps in run support and is a dangerous return man. With Peyton and his WR our nickel and dime have to be a really good ones because the Colts just have too many weapons. Same situation with Philly because they had to compete with the Rams and Warner and needed to draft a lot of DB to stay competitive.

Grid 01-13-2005 09:43 PM

Antonio Perkins is another Dunta type of CB.

edo783 01-13-2005 09:50 PM

CB would be a good idea. Another Dunta would be outstanding!

THE_HONKEY_TONK_KID 01-13-2005 10:00 PM

I'm not sure about Jones, I think the better comparison is DeAnglo Hall. Very fast, but I don't know how physical. I think the DB we go after is Carlos Rogers. Don't expect us to draft more that 1 guy in the secondary on day 1 though, unless we find a steal in the 3rd.

Vinny 01-13-2005 10:26 PM

Jones is largely compared to Dunta in most places from what I have read.

F-minus67 01-13-2005 10:40 PM

Jones is more like Hall, because both will take a lot of risks and make the play more often than not. Eventhough Jones is built more like Dunta than Hall.

Vinny 01-13-2005 11:01 PM

I know there are a lot of opinions and this is just on example out there but Jones is compared in many places to Dunta. I can't find too many comparisons to Hall. Jones has return skills like Hall but he plays a more physical game than Hall does when it comes to run support and overall play in the secondary.

good article on Jones
Quote:

Dallas Cowboys- Adam Jones-CB-West Virginia*
- Dallas is in the market for another cornerback and they find a talented one here. Jones compares to Dunta Robinson of the Texans and the Cowboys are hoping for similar success in year one from Jones.
http://nfldraftblitz.com/mock_draft.htm

beerlover 01-13-2005 11:28 PM

from watching Adam Jones play yes he does remind me of Dunta. if your all debating CB for the Texans with their 1st pick, I feel since we already have one Dunta we need a taller, big wingspan cover to match-up with some of the big WR & TE's especially in the Red Zone , where the Texans have be beaten.

if looking down the road a couple years as your suggesting (we still have Aaron Glenn) there is a underclassman from Oregon State who plays CB named Brandon Browner. Actually I see him more of a replacement for Coleman @ corner & move Glenn into the nickle. Anyways his stock should soar once he hits the combines and runs some sub 4.4's, with his size and ability he may be a riskier pick but the upside seems in his favor.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/pla...onbrowner.html

fresno8 01-14-2005 12:27 AM

Good posts everybody. I think we need D-line and O-line help the most, but I'm in agreement we could use another CB and if we use our 1st round pick on one that would be fine w/ me. I don't know a lot about Jones, but I did see Rogers from Auburn and was very impressed. I would be happy w/ Jones or Rogers. Also if Browner is available round 3 he'd be a good pick up. Glenn still has a year or two left in the tank. We need a good corner duo for the future so like I said a 1st rnd pick is fine w/ me on a CB.

Grid 01-14-2005 01:29 AM

I think the "big CB" thing is overrated.. especially if the NFL continues to enforce the 5 yard rule.

The way I see it.. the height difference really doesnt matter much if the Corner knows what he is doing. Honestly.. lets assume that the Corner is 5'10" and the WR is 6'3".. lets also assume that both the Corner and WR have the same verticle leap.. but that the WR has arms 2 inches longer than the corner. that would mean there is a 7 inch difference between the top of the WRs hands, and the top of the CBs.. considering that a football is about 5 inches thick.. or more.. we are not talking about some huge advantage. The only time it would be a problem is in a perfect situation where the QB puts the ball EXACTLY where it needs to be.

Another physical CB that can make tackles like Dunta.. and be used to rush like Dunta.. and most importantly.. can function in a cover defense as well as Dunta does.. that would be the best choice. Can you imagine being able to do a CB rush from either side :).. it would really lend some versatility to our pass rushing.

beerlover 01-14-2005 03:52 AM

I'll half agree with your point Grid that focusing in on size is overrated, but the other half would say your experiencing symptoms of inadequacy :survivor:

Of course at this time last year everybody knew who Dunta Robinson was right? Wasn't he the consensous 1st CB in the draft after DeAngelo Hall? Yeah right.......just how fast & how many prospects he leapfrogged over the course of the last two weeks of the draft is only matched by his speed & skills on the field. I'm telling you since Browner has declared (less than one week) most knowledgable fans & scouts have him into the 1st round somewhere.

To address the main point of height being a non factor, all I'm advocating is balance through covering strengths & weaknesses which creates versatility & problems for the offense. The 6-foot-4 Browner, is exceptionally tall for a cornerback and uses his wingspan to good advantage. Even if Browner gets beat on a play, hes long enough to compensate by getting his hands on the ball. Wingspan is going to be ever increasingly valued commodity in the defensive secondary in the future, haven't we all seen the scripts Basketball player turned NFL TE. Its a trend that here's to stay so there will be players & or coaches of players who will intend on taking advantage of mis-matches, with his size & height Browner poses a deterent to this happening.

edo783 01-14-2005 09:58 AM

IMO, a CB with the first is not a bad way to go. If, and it may be a big if, Browner is fast enough (sub 4.4) to stay with NFL recievers and has the good technique he probably would be the better choice just due to the height thing. Speed and technique are IMO, the most important traits for a good CB. If they have those, they can be sub 6ft and be effective ie. DRob. If they can also lay a lick, even better, but not required.

SESupergenius 01-14-2005 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grid
I think the "big CB" thing is overrated.. especially if the NFL continues to enforce the 5 yard rule.

The way I see it.. the height difference really doesnt matter much if the Corner knows what he is doing. Honestly.. lets assume that the Corner is 5'10" and the WR is 6'3".. lets also assume that both the Corner and WR have the same verticle leap.. but that the WR has arms 2 inches longer than the corner. that would mean there is a 7 inch difference between the top of the WRs hands, and the top of the CBs.. considering that a football is about 5 inches thick.. or more.. we are not talking about some huge advantage. The only time it would be a problem is in a perfect situation where the QB puts the ball EXACTLY where it needs to be.

I just remember Glenn getting torched in the exact kind of situation you are describing by a Lions rookie. He was taller and reached out and snagged the ball. We need a CB that is at least 6'0.

Grid 01-14-2005 01:04 PM

Glenn was in a bad position. How many times have we seen Dunta and Aaron slap down passes intended for reaceivers bigger than them?

I have nothing AGAINST size.. I just dont think it should be a big factor. We need a CB with good technique.. who plays physical like Dunta.. and is a good cover corner. if that guy is 6+ feet tall.. then great.. but if he isnt, im not worried about it.






and hey hey now! im 6'1".. no inadequacy issues here buddy. hehehe.

THE_HONKEY_TONK_KID 01-14-2005 09:58 PM

Okay..........from what I have heard there are 2 different comparisions about Pac-Man Jones:

1. His style of coverage is pretty close to that of DeAnglo Halls. A guy that will try to make a break on the ball, looking for a big play and has the skills to take it to the house at anytime.

2. Pac-Man Jones is built like that of Robinson, and is a run-stopper and tackler just like Duante.

I can see how these two things can get comfused, and from what I have seen this guy possesses both of these qualites. He is pretty much a complete corner, but I expect him to be the 1st CB taken at #4.

Fiddy 01-14-2005 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE_HONKEY_TONK_KID
I can see how these two things can get comfused, and from what I have seen this guy possesses both of these qualites. He is pretty much a complete corner, but I expect him to be the 1st CB taken at #4.

Pac-Man is a good CB but I defenitley do not see him going at #4. Mainly because Antrell Rolle is still the best CB in this draft hands down and he is not even going at four...

THE_HONKEY_TONK_KID 01-14-2005 10:12 PM

Watch the Cowboys to trade both of their first round picks for the Bears 1st and 2nd round picks and they pick up Jones at #4. Mel Kiper thinks he is worth the #5 pick.

Fiddy 01-14-2005 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE_HONKEY_TONK_KID
Watch the Cowboys to trade both of their first round picks for the Bears 1st and 2nd round picks and they pick up Jones at #4. Mel Kiper thinks he is worth the #5 pick.

Mel Kiper also rated Joey Harrington ahead of David Carr during the 2001 draft...

And the Cowboys have more then CB as a need so to trade two first rounders wouldn't be the smartest idea in this draft since it is not very deep...

nunusguy 01-15-2005 12:32 PM

After QB, CB is the most demanding position on the field to play. And there
is no position that calls for a > level of sheer athletic ability. This is one
position where you don't feel bad about using your top pick (13th overall in
our case - quite high), on someone who won't start his rookie year. That's
how important CBs are and why anyone is mistaken to pick a safey, any safety, ahead of a CB who has the upside for the long-term.

Grid 01-15-2005 12:49 PM

I watched that "Hey Rookie, Welcome to the NFL" show last night on ESPN2.. and they were talking about Dunta Robinson playing both Nickle and right CB. And at one point Dunta was talking about how much that was wearing him down.

It made me think that there is a better chance we will get ourselves another CB in this draft. ANd the first round seems a likely spot to do it.


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