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-   -   "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp" (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58513)

nero THE zero 02-05-2009 08:43 AM
"Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"
 
This scrolled under ESPN's "The Lead" on the ticker this morning. I searched their website and didn't see anything. Anyone know what they're talking about?

Errant Hothy 02-05-2009 08:47 AM
Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"
 
If true, I'd be more curious as to which palyer leaked this.

Yankee_In_TX 02-05-2009 08:50 AM
Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"
 
Which team doesn't?

Ole Miss Texan 02-05-2009 08:52 AM
Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nero THE zero (Post 1112818)
This scrolled under ESPN's "The Lead" on the ticker this morning. I searched their website and didn't see anything. Anyone know what they're talking about?
Hmmm. Well during mini-camps its usually the rookies and maybe some of the younger players. They practice in shorts and t shirts (no pads) thus its not to be considered a full contact practice. It's really just a time for the young players to run through some plays, learn new plays, do drills, refresh their memory, etc. An early look so the coaches can kinda see what they have to work with (concerning the rookies) going into more offseason workouts. This may have been the time when they noticed Demeco could make the switch to MLB (ability to learn the plays quickly, be a leader etc.) but I'm not sure.

Maybe during a few drills they wore pads or they were rougher than they were supposed to be? For some reason I think some other team had a problem with this a few years ago and may have even been penalized somehow.

TexanSam 02-05-2009 08:57 AM
Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"
 
So what are the potential repercussions of this if true?

nero THE zero 02-05-2009 09:00 AM
Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"
 
Now they're scrolling this:

Quote:
ESPN's Outside the Lines reports some Texans players say they were instructed to participate in contract drills at 2008 mini-camp, despite such drills violating the collective bargaining agreement

3 players suffered season ending injuries at mini-camp

Full report on Outside the Lines (Sunday, 9 AM ET on ESPN)

Texans34Life 02-05-2009 09:08 AM
Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"
 
Crap, stupid BSPN all up in our biz.

TexanSam 02-05-2009 09:08 AM
Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"
 
Here's the article

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/n...ory?id=3885900

Quote:
When the Houston Texans' coaching staff announced to linemen that they would be running one-on-one blocking drills during minicamp last May, the rumbling started immediately, players say.

The NFL's rules about minicamp are spelled out in the collective bargaining agreement with the NFL Players Association: no contact, no pads.

"There's a reason why these drills are prohibited in the offseason," said offensive guard Dan Stevenson. "Football is dangerous enough as it is."

But several sources told ESPN that even after the team's player representatives complained to head coach Gary Kubiak, the drills continued; and by the end of minicamp, three players had suffered season-ending injuries.

According to four players and a member of the team's front office who spoke on the condition of anonymity, Kubiak and his coaching staff conducted the drills despite the fact that players were not wearing pads. Their only protection, they said, was helmets.

"It was a live blocking drill. There were people getting pancaked. Everyone's going as hard as he can," Stevenson said.

Stevenson suffered a labrum tear in his shoulder that he feels might end his career.

"I was the third offensive lineman who was done for the season, just from that drill," offensive tackle Jordan Black said. "If nobody's going to stand up, it's just going to continue."

Black had surgery to repair a torn labrum, was released by the team in June and has since signed with the Jacksonville Jaguars. Stevenson also suffered a labrum tear in his right shoulder, and center Chukky Okobi suffered a triceps injury.

"I felt like, for my career, my occupation, my dreams, for all this to be taken away from me, to be jeopardized not for just one season but for my entire football career for something that wasn't supposed to be done -- I was upset," Stevenson said.

Okobi couldn't be reached for comment. Black and Stevenson said that while they accept football's injury risks, they are distressed that their seasons ended in a drill they say should not have happened. Okobi has not signed with a new club.

Stevenson and Black have labor grievances pending against the team, and Stevenson plans to sue the Texans.
Doesn't sound good.

The article does answer my previous question though. It says there is no specific punishment for teams that disobey the rule.

HoustonFrog 02-05-2009 09:09 AM
Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"
 
OL Stephenson

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/n...ory?id=3885900

Quote:
HOUSTON -- When the Houston Texans' coaching staff announced to linemen that they would be running one-on-one blocking drills during minicamp last May, the rumbling started immediately, players say.

The NFL's rules about minicamp are spelled out in the collective bargaining agreement with the NFL Players Association: no contact, no pads.

"There's a reason why these drills are prohibited in the offseason," said offensive guard Dan Stevenson. "Football is dangerous enough as it is."

But several sources told ESPN that even after the team's player representatives complained to head coach Gary Kubiak, the drills continued; and by the end of minicamp, three players had suffered season-ending injuries.

According to four players and a member of the team's front office who spoke on the condition of anonymity, Kubiak and his coaching staff conducted the drills despite the fact that players were not wearing pads. Their only protection, they said, was helmets.

"It was a live blocking drill. There were people getting pancaked. Everyone's going as hard as he can," Stevenson said.

Stevenson suffered a labrum tear in his shoulder that he feels might end his career.

"I was the third offensive lineman who was done for the season, just from that drill," offensive tackle Jordan Black said. "If nobody's going to stand up, it's just going to continue."

Black had surgery to repair a torn labrum, was released by the team in June and has since signed with the Jacksonville Jaguars. Stevenson also suffered a labrum tear in his right shoulder, and center Chukky Okobi suffered a triceps injury.

"I felt like, for my career, my occupation, my dreams, for all this to be taken away from me, to be jeopardized not for just one season but for my entire football career for something that wasn't supposed to be done -- I was upset," Stevenson said.

Okobi couldn't be reached for comment. Black and Stevenson said that while they accept football's injury risks, they are distressed that their seasons ended in a drill they say should not have happened. Okobi has not signed with a new club.

Stevenson and Black have labor grievances pending against the team, and Stevenson plans to sue the Texans.

Asked about the players' charges, team counsel Suzie Thomas wrote in an e-mail, "I am unable to comment, other than to say that information set forth & is inaccurate." Kubiak did not return calls to his office at Reliant Stadium.

NFL and NFLPA officials said there is no specific punishment defined for a team that holds prohibited drills during a minicamp, and an NFL spokesman said the league was unaware of the complaint against the Texans until a call from ESPN.

Stevenson's current grievance is a "non-injury" complaint that relates to the minicamp drill. A previous injury grievance was denied by the NFL Management Council. In that rejection, the NFLMC cited numerous procedural problems with Stevenson's complaint.

One portion of the rejection letter, Stevenson said, read, "the Texans deny & that 'players were required to participate in drills which are explicitly prohibited.' "

Once the team denied that the drill had taken place, Stevenson took a video camera into the Texans' meeting room and filmed the team's video of the workout. The video, which was provided to ESPN, shows what appears to be full-speed, full-contact drills.

Black and former Texans lineman Fred Weary also signed notarized affidavits supporting Stevenson's description of what took place during minicamp, from the complaints of the player representatives to Stevenson's shoulder injury.

The players said it is not uncommon for coaches on many teams to schedule such drills during minicamp, but it is unusual for coaches to proceed with the drills when players object.

Tom DePaso, associate general counsel for the NFLPA, said the union often hears complaints about offseason drills that violate the CBA.

"It's this classic thing in the offseason. Coaches really want to get started on the new season; and on the other hand, we need our guys to learn and they need to rest," DePaso said.

DePaso wouldn't specifically address the grievances against the Texans or the three players who received season-ending injuries.

"If that were the case," he said, "that would be extraordinary."

HoustonFrog 02-05-2009 09:11 AM
Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"
 
Not sounding good since the practices were video taped to prove it.

awtysst 02-05-2009 09:14 AM
Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"
 
Whats the worst that can happen? Will we get fined? Lose Draft picks?

Malloy 02-05-2009 09:15 AM
Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"
 
omg Richard Justice was right.. ;)

Oh well, let's see how this one plays out...

ArlingtonTexan 02-05-2009 09:16 AM
Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"
 
One of the off-season bits at profootballtalk.com is finding pictures of teams which are in violation of contact rules. They have probably dozens of pictures from various teams. the Texans are not unusual in that regard, and if anything "normal" is this regard.

False Start 02-05-2009 09:18 AM
Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"
 
Damn, so I-65 had to blow it. I hope we don't suffer any severe consequences for this. This is Cowboyesque. :mcnugget:

HoustonFrog 02-05-2009 09:18 AM
Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloy (Post 1112852)
omg Richard Justice was right.. ;)

Oh well, let's see how this one plays out...
That is the first thing I thought..."Justice will have a field day"

Wolf 02-05-2009 09:19 AM
Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"
 
this happened to 2005

Quote:
The NFL stripped the Washington Redskins of three workout days for violating league rules governing the intensity of offseason training, costing the team valuable practice time just before its June 17-19 minicamp, Coach Joe Gibbs said yesterday.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...060901271.html

painekiller 02-05-2009 09:19 AM
Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"
 
IIRC the Redskins lost some off season practice days for the year a few years back.

HOU-TEX 02-05-2009 09:20 AM
Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"
 
Meh, I don't think it's going to be a big deal. It sounds like sour grapes from 3 players no longer with the team. Even if it were to go against the Texans I wouldn't think the punishment would be too extreme.

mexican_texan 02-05-2009 09:25 AM
Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"
 
Every team does this.

Errant Hothy 02-05-2009 09:26 AM
Re: "Texans players say they had illegal contract drills at 2008 mini-camp"
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HOU-TEX (Post 1112859)
Meh, I don't think it's going to be a big deal. It sounds like sour grapes from 3 players no longer with the team. Even if it were to go against the Texans I wouldn't think the punishment would be too extreme.
Not only 3 players who are no longer Texans, but three players that had very little chance of making the team anyways.

The team will more then likely lose some workout days early in the preseason, and McNair will likely have to fork over some cash to the three guys who got injure.

For what it worth, Justice was wrong. If the trainer and S&C coach were the "best in the NFL" then these guys should not have gotten injured. Especally since two of them suffered the same injury.


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