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-   -   Wide open offense? (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=583)

done88 06-01-2004 11:16 AM

Wide open offense?
 
Looks like ESPN thinks Palmer is going to open up the offense.

"That starts by emptying out Palmer's playbook, which hadn't been fully implemented until now because of the personnel fluctuations.
If the offense -- which ranked last in 2002 and next-to-last in 2003 -- indeed steps it up, the first casualty could be Carr's coif."


Does this mean more passes down the field? Might we see AJ run more reverse's? Will Davis throw a pass? to Carr? On 1st and more then ten will the Texans run something other then the draw?

I'm really excited to see what he has up his sleeve. We've heard what an offensive genius he is. I hope they open it up and we get some extream excitement.

Lucky 06-01-2004 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by done88
Does this mean more passes down the field?

If the new Texan O-line proves it can protect Carr and stay away from the rampant procedure and holding penalties, the answer is likely yes. But if you think the Texans offense will ever resemble the Ram offense, you are going to be disappointed. Dom Capers & Mike Martz could not have more different football philosophies.

BTW, where did you see Chris Palmer and the word genius together in the same sentence?

J-Man 06-01-2004 11:52 AM

I don't think too many of us have actually seen the Palmer playbook for real to project what it will be like when "opened up". The last time I remember him with full throttle on the offense was in Cleveland...and I don't remember it being a barn burner so to speak.

I easily admit that we were painfully conservative sometimes last year...in fact, I remember screaming at the TV a couple times last year in the close ones to go for the kill shot. I am hoping that we simply get more aggressive, particularly in the 2nd half if we are up or in striking distance.

aj. 06-01-2004 12:13 PM

Capers lets Palmer act on his own for the most part but he's still plugged into the loop and has veto power over any play.

As far as opening up the playbook, I'd settle for a few third down conversions and sustained drives. Blow some people of the ball or finesse them to death, I don't care, just execute the plays like they are supposed to be executed and convert a few third downs for a change.

Palmer ran a very potent Jags offense in 97 and 98. They were 7th in the NFL in 97, and 11th in 98 in total yards. Brunell, Jimmy Smith and Keenan McCardell were the horses both years. Fred Taylor arrived in 98 and had over 1000 yards. They didn't have much of a running game in 97.

SBTexans08 06-01-2004 12:16 PM

Chris Palmer's got to go....IMO.
Not really but my goodness.......open up the playbook for crying out loud!

Vinny 06-01-2004 12:18 PM

You can't "open up the playbook" when you can't excute simple plays.

TheOgre 06-01-2004 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBTexans08
Chris Palmer's got to go....IMO.
Not really but my goodness.......open up the playbook for crying out loud!

Steve Francis needs to be shipped out on the first train to Nowhere. Dotel needs to be canned. Tim Redding needs to be demoted to AAA...oh wait.

Any other overplayed fan cry I left out?

aj. 06-01-2004 12:21 PM

But but on Madden...

BornOrange 06-01-2004 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by done88
Looks like ESPN thinks Palmer is going to open up the offense.

"That starts by emptying out Palmer's playbook, which hadn't been fully implemented until now because of the personnel fluctuations.
If the offense -- which ranked last in 2002 and next-to-last in 2003 -- indeed steps it up, the first casualty could be Carr's coif."


Does this mean more passes down the field? Might we see AJ run more reverse's? Will Davis throw a pass? to Carr? On 1st and more then ten will the Texans run something other then the draw?

I'm really excited to see what he has up his sleeve. We've heard what an offensive genius he is. I hope they open it up and we get some extream excitement.

Oh yeah, I am really looking forward to Carr becoming a receiving threat. :crazy:
I have nothing against an occasional trick play, but if the Texans begin executing the plays they have been running they will do just fine.

Fiddy 06-01-2004 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BornOrange
Oh yeah, I am really looking forward to Carr becoming a receiving threat. :crazy:

Hey, Gaffney did throw a pass to Carr during the Dolphins game, Carr caught it too but he couldnt stay inbounds.

BuffSoldier 06-01-2004 12:36 PM

Hopefully our playbook will be opened and we will throw more deep passes or see more play-action. Last year I remember running around the house yelling because they called a draw on 3rd and long.

texans 06-01-2004 12:40 PM

yeah he needs to work on that and andre needs to work on his coverage ohh and dont forget seths pass protection that sucked last year :fight:

J-Man 06-01-2004 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuffSoldier
Hopefully our playbook will be opened and we will throw more deep passes or see more play-action. Last year I remember running around the house yelling because they called a draw on 3rd and long.

My point exactly!!! We have a guy with a licensed nuclear weapon for a right arm and we hand the ball off on to the RB on a belly play with no lead back...good gravy! Throw it downrange.

JDizzle 06-01-2004 12:45 PM

I can recall just as many instances last season where we threw the deep ball and either the receiver *cough*andrejohnson*cough dropped it, or the quarterback *cough*davidcarr*cough* threw a bad ball.

SBTexans08 06-01-2004 12:47 PM

Hey...I know that first we need to get the plays down.
Second would be to go out there with confindence that the play will be made.
After getting confidence and fine tuning plays comes "opening up the playbook" type plays.

What I was saying was that even if the Texans did get it going in that sense...I still think Palmer would be too conservative. For two season, expansion team seasons, a team is able to try this, try that...experiement if you will....and they didn't. The only play that comes to mind was when the went for it against Jacksonville this past season when Carr QB sneaked it in.

What I'm saying is try...open the playbook when you know your down and the only chance to keep the game alive is going for the daring play!

Another game that comes to mind is the Texans/Pats game in overtime when the Pats stopped the Texans and cause a loss of yardage when the Texans were in field goal range......what did Palmer call?.?.?.?. he called all running plays! He could have just kicked the field goal on 2nd down...if Brown would have missed it, he would have had another try, and then another................no...he went for all running plays and one screen play (not too sure of screenplay though)against a solid Patriots defense that smelled everything coming!

aj. 06-01-2004 12:49 PM

I don't mind a well conceived gadget play now and then -- they have their place in the grand scheme of things but to me, running trick plays often means you don't have enough confidence in your offense to get it done by conventional means.

Of all the trick plays the Texans have run, I liked the throwback to Glenn at Jax in 02 and the fake punt at NO last year the best (because they worked of course). If they don't work, then everyone is screaming to fire Palmer. Didn't Gaffney also toss a TD to Bradford at Philly in 02?

Lucky 06-01-2004 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBTexans08
...He could have just kicked the field goal on 2nd down...if Brown would have missed it, he would have had another try, and then another...

Once a team kicks the ball and misses on a field goal attempt, the ball is turned over to the other team. Regardless of what down it is. But, I get your point.

The past is the past. We are talking about the 1st 2 seasons of an expansion franchise, right? What happens in the future will be determined by how well the current offense performs. There are legit NFL starters at every position. The players should execute better. You know that, I know that, the coaching staff knows that. With that knowledge, Palmer will likely take more chances than the previous seasons.

But, the offense will never be mistaken for the run & shoot, fun & gun, or any other wide open offense with an "&" in the name. That doesn't mean it can't or won't be a winning offense. And Palmer doesn't have to be a genius. Just put the players in a position where they can be successful.

texasguy346 06-01-2004 01:51 PM

"Once a team kicks the ball and misses on a field goal attempt, the ball is turned over to the other team. Regardless of what down it is."

That is of course provided it crosses the LOS I believe. Remember that Pittsburgh game last year?

SBTexans08 06-01-2004 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texasguy346
"Once a team kicks the ball and misses on a field goal attempt, the ball is turned over to the other team. Regardless of what down it is."

That is of course provided it crosses the LOS I believe. Remember that Pittsburgh game last year?


No...do tell. :popcorn:

BornOrange 06-01-2004 03:00 PM

Also, there are some good reasons to call a draw play every now and then on third and long.
1) You can catch the defense by surprise and run for a first down while everyone is going after the quarterback.
2) You slow the pass rush down a bit because they have to be aware of the draw play.
3) A draw play is really safe and avoids a sack or interception.

Face it. Capers is a defensive minded coach. Defensive coordinators love third and long because they have the offense in a bind and the defense has a chance to make a game-changing play through a sack or interception. So in a lot of third and long situations Capers is going to play it safe by going with the draw play and hoping to win field position with a good punt and a good defensive series, hoping the offense can execute better in the next series by not getting into a third and long situation.


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