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Ole Miss Texan 12-02-2008 07:03 PM

Defensive thoughts as of lately...
 
Your thoughts on overall positions of need for us and players in the draft to fit? pros/cons for positions. I feel like we're so close, yet still far away.

So I've been thinking about the DL, LB's and DB's and how one another compliment one another. For instance, a great pass rush will mask most deficiencies in a secondary. Likewise, a great secondary will allow the DL that little extra second to get more pressure. With TE, slants and RB screens playing a huge role in our defeats- LB's with good coverage skills and play reading is just as important. So I don't know how I feel about going after a DT like Cody, pass rusher like Johnson/Orakpo- pick your poison, LB like Curry or DB like Davis/Jenkins.

The thing that gets me is seeing how well our DL is getting pressure on the QB. We are there so many times, just a fraction late. This led me to start pushing for a great CB like Vontae Davis. Reeves, Bennett, Robinson, Faggins, Molden... none are playing like #1 CB's and I'm not sure any of them actually are. So if we can get a true #1 CB the other cb's on our roster may be able to thrive. Vontae should be able to cover quite well and this may allow our DL to make that play more often than not.

Reeves- but then I get back to him. I am one of the few on the board that actually like this guy. Shoot, I'm one of the few in HOUSTON that likes the guy. He's not outstanding but he's progressing. I didn't expect him to come in and be a pro bowler right away, hell maybe never. But we needed someone adequate and that's what I think we got. Robinson, while showing so much drive to actually get out on the field, isn't playing superb. Bennett is not doing well. Reeves has great coverage skills and is fast to make up for his mistakes. His problem is he just can't turn his head to locate the ball! When he's in a position to do that, he makes the pick like monday night.

I'm a big proponent of building through the trenches first. OL and DL. I think a great OLB would do wonders. But my pick this week is going towards a CB.


I think our defense has enough needs that we need to focus on this but I really don't like our C/RG combo as I've expressed before. This may go against Gibbs initial intentions but I'm really starting to wonder IF we're in a position for a guy like Mike Oher, take him to shore up our pass blocking, move Brown in to RG. Somethings gotta be done before we have to go out and trade for a QB again or pick one early in the draft. 3rd year in a row of Schaub getting hit hard isn't going to do us much good if we're looking for the playoffs next year or the year after.

mussop 12-02-2008 07:34 PM

Re: Defensive thoughts as of lately...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan (Post 1066367)
Your thoughts on overall positions of need for us and players in the draft to fit? pros/cons for positions. I feel like we're so close, yet still far away.

So I've been thinking about the DL, LB's and DB's and how one another compliment one another. For instance, a great pass rush will mask most deficiencies in a secondary. Likewise, a great secondary will allow the DL that little extra second to get more pressure. With TE, slants and RB screens playing a huge role in our defeats- LB's with good coverage skills and play reading is just as important. So I don't know how I feel about going after a DT like Cody, pass rusher like Johnson/Orakpo- pick your poison, LB like Curry or DB like Davis/Jenkins.

The thing that gets me is seeing how well our DL is getting pressure on the QB. We are there so many times, just a fraction late. This led me to start pushing for a great CB like Vontae Davis. Reeves, Bennett, Robinson, Faggins, Molden... none are playing like #1 CB's and I'm not sure any of them actually are. So if we can get a true #1 CB the other cb's on our roster may be able to thrive. Vontae should be able to cover quite well and this may allow our DL to make that play more often than not.

Reeves- but then I get back to him. I am one of the few on the board that actually like this guy. Shoot, I'm one of the few in HOUSTON that likes the guy. He's not outstanding but he's progressing. I didn't expect him to come in and be a pro bowler right away, hell maybe never. But we needed someone adequate and that's what I think we got. Robinson, while showing so much drive to actually get out on the field, isn't playing superb. Bennett is not doing well. Reeves has great coverage skills and is fast to make up for his mistakes. His problem is he just can't turn his head to locate the ball! When he's in a position to do that, he makes the pick like monday night.

I'm a big proponent of building through the trenches first. OL and DL. I think a great OLB would do wonders. But my pick this week is going towards a CB.


I think our defense has enough needs that we need to focus on this but I really don't like our C/RG combo as I've expressed before. This may go against Gibbs initial intentions but I'm really starting to wonder IF we're in a position for a guy like Mike Oher, take him to shore up our pass blocking, move Brown in to RG. Somethings gotta be done before we have to go out and trade for a QB again or pick one early in the draft. 3rd year in a row of Schaub getting hit hard isn't going to do us much good if we're looking for the playoffs next year or the year after.


Honestly we have so many needs, IMO going BPA is still the best route. Let the draft come to us. Now if it comes down to our pick and Oher, Orakpo, Curry and either one of the top 2 corners are left Im going Oher. Franchise LT's are a rare commodity. You just dont pass them up. I would not be against moving Brown gaurd at all. Its not like hes been dominating at T. It would only make our line stronger and its not like we have good depth there. Think about how bad a situation it would be if Brown or Winston went down.

My next choice would be Orakpo. With the way the rules are now its almost impossible to get coverage sacks. Because WR's are given such an advantage now its even more important to get pressure on the QB or you are going to get picked apart no matter who you have at CB. Of cousre if we had a DC that blitzed the OLB more I would go with whomever is best at getting to the QB.

beerlover 12-02-2008 11:32 PM

Re: Defensive thoughts as of lately...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mussop (Post 1066380)
Honestly we have so many needs, IMO going BPA is still the best route. Let the draft come to us. Now if it comes down to our pick and Oher, Orakpo, Curry and either one of the top 2 corners are left Im going Oher. Franchise LT's are a rare commodity. You just dont pass them up. I would not be against moving Brown gaurd at all. Its not like hes been dominating at T. It would only make our line stronger and its not like we have good depth there. Think about how bad a situation it would be if Brown or Winston went down.

My next choice would be Orakpo. With the way the rules are now its almost impossible to get coverage sacks. Because WR's are given such an advantage now its even more important to get pressure on the QB or you are going to get picked apart no matter who you have at CB. Of cousre if we had a DC that blitzed the OLB more I would go with whomever is best at getting to the QB.

Brown looks more like a guard, this could work. Oher is the prototypical NFL LT has everything you look for size, technique & temperment, but alas its a pipe dream to expect him to hang around on the board until the Texans pick.

investing in DE is a time intensive proposition one that I'd be willing to spend via free agency where he is ready & up to speed immediately. thats why the Texans should be aggressive & go after Peppers in free agency. Texans can create more cap room to get real players if they cut loose less productive cost prohibitive dissapointments (Greenwood/Weaver/Travis Johnson/Ahman Green).

defensive questions hinge not only active players but those on the shelf, recovering/rehabing from injury. is Dunta the same corner before the injury & what is his market value now? can Diles & CC Brown both starting cornerstones on defense return to form? Rick Smith has done well to maintain those positions by aquireing depth via free agency & the draft but are any of those players starting material going forward into the future?

I'm satisfied with the results from the last draft when the Texans used their #1 pick to trade down & aquire the extra pick that became their running attack in Steve Slaton (also like Barber going forward, maybe he can replace CC Brown if unable to stay healthy). a proven, steady strategy is to maximize much as possible draft picks & tradeable players to aquire upgrades across this roster. I would like to see two of those high picks placed on the interior of each line, meaning OL/DL. after that speed on the edge in run/pass rush support, meaning OLB. then maybe one free agent banger type RB & one via the draft to replenish the ground game. thats both realistic & probable as time passes over the next five months :twocents:

TexansSeminole 12-02-2008 11:56 PM

Re: Defensive thoughts as of lately...
 
If you look at our defense we have one star at each level. On the Dline it's Mario, LBers it's DeMeco, and CBs it's Dunta. Outside of these guys we could really use an upgrade at every position. We aren't stacked with depth at any position so we have the opportunity to take BPA on defense. What is our biggest need on defense? It is arguable. Run stuffing DT? Cover corner? Versatile LB? Lengthy Safety? All things we need.

The best way to approach our first round pick this year may be to just take the most dominating defensive player left on the board, regardless of position.

If we went CB our situation would be 1st rounder, Dunta, Bennett, Reeves, Molden. Perhaps we would be shoving Molden and Bennett aside too early. Even Reeves is a young player. Not to mention next year is going to be the year to judge post-injury Dunta. I think we should wait another year to see what the CBs already on our roster can do. At this point I have no idea what Molden can do, other than he plays well on special teams and seems to work hard. Bennett is up and down and I don't know what caliber of player he is yet. Reeves looks to be a solid #3 and a somewhat inconsistent #2.

Safety is tough because we need a good safety desperately but honestly I don't see a sure fire first round safety outside of Mays in this draft. And even Mays is tough to grade accurately IMO.

There seems to be a few DTs that fit our run stuffing needs in this draft. Same goes for pass rushing DEs and versatile LBers. I think it will come down to DT/DE/LB if we decide to go defense in the 1st round.

It works because we do not get enough tackles for loss. We need to start dominating the point of attack if we want to dominate offenses.

mussop 12-03-2008 01:16 AM

Re: Defensive thoughts as of lately...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TexansSeminole (Post 1066504)
It works because we do not get enough tackles for loss. We need to start dominating the point of attack if we want to dominate offenses.

While we are picking this high in the draft lets stockpile the trenches. teams that control the line of scrimage seldom loose. Think of how good Slaton would look running behind a better OL. Im for building the trenches also. O or D.

ATXtexanfan 12-03-2008 09:49 AM

Re: Defensive thoughts as of lately...
 
I say d-line 1st, gotta get a DT that can tie up blockers and hold his own in the run game, wouldn't mind a DE

steelbtexan 12-03-2008 06:14 PM

Re: Defensive thoughts as of lately...
 
Order of needs IMO

Two DT's
DE
C
LB
CB
S

If we can trade up-down we should be able to fill 4 needs thru the draft & 2 thru FA

The reason I have S listed so low is I think Wilson is doing a good job & Barber is going to be a fine young SS.

One more piece of business that needs to be taken care of is firing Dick Smith

BigBull17 12-04-2008 12:29 PM

Re: Defensive thoughts as of lately...
 
1. OLB (Curry)
2. DT/DE
3. DE/DT
4. Change of Pace RB
5. Project QB
6&7 BPA

All subject to change dependding on who falls. If a good LT or DE falls to us in the 1st, why not. Just not the GT End. He is unimpressive.

bah007 12-04-2008 12:42 PM

Re: Defensive thoughts as of lately...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBull17 (Post 1067555)
1. OLB (Curry)
2. DT/DE
3. DE/DT
4. Change of Pace RB
5. Project QB
6&7 BPA

All subject to change dependding on who falls. If a good LT or DE falls to us in the 1st, why not. Just not the GT End. He is unimpressive.

He's very impressive physically.

It's the mental part that is completely unimpressive.

BigBull17 12-04-2008 12:44 PM

Re: Defensive thoughts as of lately...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bah007 (Post 1067565)
He's very impressive physically.

It's the mental part that is completely unimpressive.

Id rather have a blue collar work horse than a phisical specimen who is kinda lazy not mentally developed. We have had too many of them over the years..

bah007 12-04-2008 12:46 PM

Re: Defensive thoughts as of lately...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBull17 (Post 1067567)
Id rather have a blue collar work horse than a phisical specimen who is kinda lazy not mentally developed. We have had too many of them over the years..

Couldn't agree more.

Goatcheese 12-04-2008 01:19 PM

Re: Defensive thoughts as of lately...
 
#1 DE Pass Rusher like Orakpo
#2 LT Who can actually pass protect Like Monroe, mayby Oher if he runs well
#3 NT big space eater like Raji or Cody
#4 FS who can cover ground in a hurry and make big plays, like R.Johnson
#5 OC who doesn't get pushed backwards every play like Mack or Luigs
#6 LCB who can cover #1 recievers, and let D-Rob play on the right where he's best suited
#7 RB who can pick up short yardage, and push the pile
#8 OLB incase Diles doesn't recover
#9 SS who can make plays
#10 RG to push or replace Brisiel


Top 5 are priorities. Bottom 5 are a bonus if you can get them.

Blake 12-04-2008 02:34 PM

Re: Defensive thoughts as of lately...
 
Give me a beast like Orakpo or Maualuga. Malcolm Jenkins gets my third vote. I dont care how many cornerbacks we have. There is nothing wrong with having good corners, and good depth at cornerback.

Ole Miss Texan 12-04-2008 03:30 PM

Re: Defensive thoughts as of lately...
 
I think a lot of us are thinking the a big DT is quite necessary for this team.

But the whole arguement of another pass rusher to get to the QB or a better secondary to help our DL... what do people think of that? Do you think an elite cornerback to start would be more benificial and allow the DL that extra split second since the cb can cover better or a DE to make the QB get rid of it a little sooner and having the same cb's on the wr would be better?

BigBull17 12-04-2008 03:33 PM

Re: Defensive thoughts as of lately...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Goatcheese (Post 1067598)
#1 DE Pass Rusher like Orakpo
#2 LT Who can actually pass protect Like Monroe, mayby Oher if he runs well
#3 NT big space eater like Raji or Cody
#4 FS who can cover ground in a hurry and make big plays, like R.Johnson
#5 OC who doesn't get pushed backwards every play like Mack or Luigs
#6 LCB who can cover #1 recievers, and let D-Rob play on the right where he's best suited
#7 RB who can pick up short yardage, and push the pile
#8 OLB incase Diles doesn't recover
#9 SS who can make plays
#10 RG to push or replace Brisiel


Top 5 are priorities. Bottom 5 are a bonus if you can get them.

I think Wilson is very servicable. OLB is a much higher priority. As is any defensive playmaker.

beerlover 12-04-2008 03:49 PM

Re: Defensive thoughts as of lately...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan (Post 1067695)
But the whole arguement of another pass rusher to get to the QB or a better secondary to help our DL... what do people think of that? Do you think an elite cornerback to start would be more benificial and allow the DL that extra split second since the cb can cover better or a DE to make the QB get rid of it a little sooner and having the same cb's on the wr would be better?

regardless he's probably going to throw it away risk grounding or throw it up for grabs. the point should be to strike fear in the offensive line & inflict the same medicine Carr/Schaub have known since Texans franchise inception :ouch: it needs to be known when playing the Texans the chances of being dominated starts with the front four forcing the QB out of the pocket to run for his life dictating lower percentage plays & errors in judgement. But yes an infusion of speed to captialize on these mistakes would be like a pair of freshly poured beers :toast2: you should know. Ole Miss has a couple of my favorite defensive players that I would love it if they where drafted by the Texans :brando:

nero THE zero 12-04-2008 03:56 PM

Re: Defensive thoughts as of lately...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan (Post 1067695)
I think a lot of us are thinking the a big DT is quite necessary for this team.

But the whole arguement of another pass rusher to get to the QB or a better secondary to help our DL... what do people think of that? Do you think an elite cornerback to start would be more benificial and allow the DL that extra split second since the cb can cover better or a DE to make the QB get rid of it a little sooner and having the same cb's on the wr would be better?

I think it's a futile question. Reeves is locked up as a starter whether we like it or not; Bennett had a great rookie season and, after a rough start, has been winning back playing time; and Dunta is Dunta. Molden is having a tough time getting on the field and I cannot imagine Rick Smith drafting a CB high given the fact that he has a young, talented CB that can't get on the field as it is. There's simply not enough room unless Smith's ready to concede that Molden was a bad pick, Bennett was a bad pick, and/or Reeves was a bad signing.

There's the (very slim) possibility that (1)Rick Smith and Kubiak aren't back next year and/or (2) Dunta Robinson isn't back next year. If either of those happens, it becomes much more plausible to spend a high pick on a CB. Otherwise I just can't imagine it happening.

Ole Miss Texan 12-04-2008 04:52 PM

Re: Defensive thoughts as of lately...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beerlover (Post 1067703)
Ole Miss has a couple of my favorite defensive players that I would love it if they where drafted by the Texans :brando:

DT Peria Jerry has been absolutely outstanding but not what we need with TJ and Okoye on the team, imo. (unfortunately!). Greg Hardy has been plagued by a foot injury all season but is a freak of an ahtlete. Both of these guys are 1st round material or early 2nd. Both need to refine their game some which happens to most players, 1st is probably too early for us i think. Hardy in the 2nd if he's there would be great.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nero THE zero (Post 1067712)
I think it's a futile question. Reeves is locked up as a starter whether we like it or not; Bennett had a great rookie season and, after a rough start, has been winning back playing time; and Dunta is Dunta. Molden is having a tough time getting on the field and I cannot imagine Rick Smith drafting a CB high given the fact that he has a young, talented CB that can't get on the field as it is. There's simply not enough room unless Smith's ready to concede that Molden was a bad pick, Bennett was a bad pick, and/or Reeves was a bad signing.

There's the (very slim) possibility that (1)Rick Smith and Kubiak aren't back next year and/or (2) Dunta Robinson isn't back next year. If either of those happens, it becomes much more plausible to spend a high pick on a CB. Otherwise I just can't imagine it happening.

I know what you mean but I kind of see that on a lot of levels on the defense. a CB vs. the ones we have, an OLB vs Diles or Adidbi, and then DE/DT. I think there's a greater chance Dunta isn't here much longer than we all want to believe. I have no doubt in my mind Rick Smith and Gary Kubiak will be here another few seasons.

bah007 12-04-2008 04:54 PM

Re: Defensive thoughts as of lately...
 
If Dunta leaves then I like Malcolm Jenkins.

He can come up and play the run just as well as Dunta, plus his coverage skills are better.

I'm with most of you guys in that we need to start at the trenches, but if guys like Curry and Jenkins fall to us, could you pass on them?

nero THE zero 12-04-2008 05:27 PM

Re: Defensive thoughts as of lately...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan (Post 1067749)
I know what you mean but I kind of see that on a lot of levels on the defense. a CB vs. the ones we have, an OLB vs Diles or Adidbi, and then DE/DT. I think there's a greater chance Dunta isn't here much longer than we all want to believe. I have no doubt in my mind Rick Smith and Gary Kubiak will be here another few seasons.

Eh, not really.

At CB you have a 3rd rounder who can't get on the field, a 4th rounder who had a great rookie season, a high priced FA, and (presumably) Dunta.

At LB you have a 7th rounder coming off a serious injury, a good, promising 4th rounder, and DeMeco.

The DL line positions are a bit more fluid given the rotation and situational needs.

But, I think it's quite obvious, assuming Dunta's re-signed, that there's just not room for a rookie CB unless some major shake-up occurs. it would be much easier to replace Diles, TJ, or even Weaver.


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