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-   -   Take ‘Dre away and Walter and Daniels make plays (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54093)

Wolf 10-02-2008 10:39 AM

Take ‘Dre away and Walter and Daniels make plays
 
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_yl...v=ap&type=lgns
Quote:

HOUSTON (AP)—Here’s something new: Neither the player leading Houston in touchdown receptions or the one with the most yards receiving is named Andre Johnson.

As defenses increasingly try to take Johnson out of games, Kevin Walter and Owen Daniels have emerged to get the Texans’ passing game on track.

Walter has scored three touchdowns this season and Daniels, a tight end, leads the team with 191 yards receiving. His 63.7 yards a game are the most by a tight end in the AFC and he’s averaging 13.6 yards a catch.

Johnson had 10 receptions for 112 yards in the opener, but has had five receptions for 67 yards since then. Daniels had seven receptions for 87 yards in last week’s overtime loss to the Jaguars and Walter had eight for 76 yards and two touchdowns.

“Andre is a great player for us, but he’s not our only option out there,” said Daniels, who’s in his third season. “If they want to try to take him away or cheat to him with a safety then that leaves other people open.”

The big day by the pair helped the previously struggling Matt Schaub to his best game of the season. He threw for more than 300 yards in his first outing without a sack or a turnover.

“I think we’re better when we’re balanced and getting that ball spread around like we did the other day,” coach Gary Kubiak said. “Those kids stepped up and made the plays.”

gtexan02 10-02-2008 10:52 AM

Re: Take ‘Dre away and Walter and Daniels make plays
 
Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to correlate with the defense:

Take Mario Williams away and....*crickets*

GP 10-02-2008 10:53 AM

Re: Take ‘Dre away and Walter and Daniels make plays
 
Well, you wait and watch how much Kubiak will want Schaub to get the ball to Andre Johnson instead of sticking with what works. AJ needs to "get his," but he also needs to catch the ones that are thrown his way. It'll result (maybe) in AJ making some big plays, but it undoubtedly will cause the production numbers for Daniels and Walter to decrease if AJ doesn't do something when the ball's thrown his way. Then, the defense tightens up coverage on Daniels and Walter because AJ is not in a rhythm.

In the past, I have seen us begin to move the ball with a certain set of plays or whatever...only to get "cute" and try to do other stuff, too, which stops the chains from moving and puts the ball into the other team's hands.

I guarantee you, Daniels will see a drop-off in looks AND meaningful action in the weeks to come. It seems like it happens every freaking time he gets on a roll. Owen Daniels is going to figure out, soon, that he can command some big bucks in the free agency market...and probably put up Pro Bowl-worthy seasons elsewhere. He's really, really good.

Oh well, let's see if Kubiak dances with those who brung him...or if it's a session of "let's get cute" with the offense. I'm not saying that we decrease AJ's looks, etc., but Daniels and Walter need to be serious considerations...the sort of consideration that might mean Schaub needs to make one of them, or both of them, higher priorities on his progression(s) during a play.

Have we seen the little "quick pass" bubble-screen out to AJ this season? That's about a 5-10 yard gain almost every time unless the defense is stacked for it.

Hooston Texan 10-02-2008 11:35 AM

Re: Take ‘Dre away and Walter and Daniels make plays
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GP (Post 1012287)
Well, you wait and watch how much Kubiak will want Schaub to get the ball to Andre Johnson instead of sticking with what works. AJ needs to "get his," but he also needs to catch the ones that are thrown his way. It'll result (maybe) in AJ making some big plays, but it undoubtedly will cause the production numbers for Daniels and Walter to decrease if AJ doesn't do something when the ball's thrown his way. Then, the defense tightens up coverage on Daniels and Walter because AJ is not in a rhythm.

In the past, I have seen us begin to move the ball with a certain set of plays or whatever...only to get "cute" and try to do other stuff, too, which stops the chains from moving and puts the ball into the other team's hands.

I guarantee you, Daniels will see a drop-off in looks AND meaningful action in the weeks to come. It seems like it happens every freaking time he gets on a roll. Owen Daniels is going to figure out, soon, that he can command some big bucks in the free agency market...and probably put up Pro Bowl-worthy seasons elsewhere. He's really, really good.

Oh well, let's see if Kubiak dances with those who brung him...or if it's a session of "let's get cute" with the offense. I'm not saying that we decrease AJ's looks, etc., but Daniels and Walter need to be serious considerations...the sort of consideration that might mean Schaub needs to make one of them, or both of them, higher priorities on his progression(s) during a play.

Have we seen the little "quick pass" bubble-screen out to AJ this season? That's about a 5-10 yard gain almost every time unless the defense is stacked for it.

On your last question about the bubble screen, I doubt we see that this weekend given the Colts' cover-2 penchant. Of course, that didn't stop us from trying to force-feed that pass in the past.

That said, I completely agree that we need to avoid a "get cute" tendency while the rest of the passing is zipping along (hoping, hoping, hoping that Jacksonville is the harbinger of things to come). Most of Schaub's biggest mistakes have come while trying to force the ball into AJ's hands--in fact, by my count, 5 of the 8 picks Matt has thrown in games AJ played were intended for AJ.

AJ and Schaub are just not clicking at the moment. We all hope that changes, but such change needs to happen within the context of our overall gameplan. We are (finally) past the point of having our offense be "get the ball to Andre and hope he scores", so let's not junk what we've got in favor of "get the ball to Andre and hope he gets out of his funk".

Texans_Chick 10-02-2008 12:07 PM

Re: Take ‘Dre away and Walter and Daniels make plays
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GP (Post 1012287)
Well, you wait and watch how much Kubiak will want Schaub to get the ball to Andre Johnson instead of sticking with what works. AJ needs to "get his," but he also needs to catch the ones that are thrown his way. It'll result (maybe) in AJ making some big plays, but it undoubtedly will cause the production numbers for Daniels and Walter to decrease if AJ doesn't do something when the ball's thrown his way. Then, the defense tightens up coverage on Daniels and Walter because AJ is not in a rhythm.

In the past, I have seen us begin to move the ball with a certain set of plays or whatever...only to get "cute" and try to do other stuff, too, which stops the chains from moving and puts the ball into the other team's hands.

I guarantee you, Daniels will see a drop-off in looks AND meaningful action in the weeks to come. It seems like it happens every freaking time he gets on a roll. Owen Daniels is going to figure out, soon, that he can command some big bucks in the free agency market...and probably put up Pro Bowl-worthy seasons elsewhere. He's really, really good.

Oh well, let's see if Kubiak dances with those who brung him...or if it's a session of "let's get cute" with the offense. I'm not saying that we decrease AJ's looks, etc., but Daniels and Walter need to be serious considerations...the sort of consideration that might mean Schaub needs to make one of them, or both of them, higher priorities on his progression(s) during a play.

Have we seen the little "quick pass" bubble-screen out to AJ this season? That's about a 5-10 yard gain almost every time unless the defense is stacked for it.

I'm not worried about Dre, as long as Dre is healthy.

The offense is never about getting one guy the ball, but Andre Johnson is going to get his. It didn't happen this last game, but it is going to happen. The only people upset with AJ not getting more touches last game, despite Schaub having 3 TD passes is Richard Justice and those people who have AJ on their fantasy teams.

Marcus 10-02-2008 12:07 PM

Re: Take ‘Dre away and Walter and Daniels make plays
 
This is what I'd like to see from Andre Johnson . . .

Johnson is on a post-corner or go route, and he's got both a CB and a safety stuck to him like glue. Schaub sells the fake, drops back, and launches a perfectly spiraled rainbow and the ball is coming down right into group of three racing down the sideline, and all three are looking up at the ball.

Now AJ, being the elite receiver that is, will be patient. The DBs will be impatient. They will mistime their jump for the ball too early, and AJ will time his jump perfectly, and catch the ball while the 2 DBs are on the way down. And he walks into the endzone with two defenders laying on the ground.

If I ever see Johnson make a play like that . . . my criticism of him will end.

Forever.

cuppacoffee 10-02-2008 12:16 PM

Re: Take ‘Dre away and Walter and Daniels make plays
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus (Post 1012360)
This is what I'd like to see from Andre Johnson . . .

Johnson is on a post-corner or go route, and he's got both a CB and a safety stuck to him like glue. Schaub sells the fake, drops back, and launches a perfectly spiraled rainbow and the ball is coming down right into group of three racing down the sideline, and all three are looking up at the ball.

Now AJ, being the elite receiver that is, will be patient. The DBs will be impatient. They will mistime their jump for the ball too early, and AJ will time his jump perfectly, and catch the ball while the 2 DBs are on the way down. And he walks into the endzone with two defenders laying on the ground.

If I ever see Johnson make a play like that . . . my criticism of him will end.

Forever.


It's going to be a looooong wait Marcus.

:coffee:

Marcus 10-02-2008 12:19 PM

Re: Take ‘Dre away and Walter and Daniels make plays
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cuppacoffee (Post 1012371)
It's going to be a looooong wait Marcus.

:coffee:

I won't be holding my breath, that's for damn sure. :(

infantrycak 10-02-2008 12:24 PM

Re: Take ‘Dre away and Walter and Daniels make plays
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus (Post 1012360)
If I ever see Johnson make a play like that . . . my criticism of him will end.

Forever.

2004 sideline pass completion over two MN db's for 36 yards. So your criticism has ended, correct?

Wolf 10-02-2008 12:28 PM

Re: Take ‘Dre away and Walter and Daniels make plays
 
http://media.bonnint.net/apimage/ec5...f1070ace3c.jpg

Marcus 10-02-2008 12:28 PM

Re: Take ‘Dre away and Walter and Daniels make plays
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by infantrycak (Post 1012381)
2004 sideline pass completion over two MN db's for 36 yards. So your criticism has ended, correct?

2004? A sideline completion?

Umm . . . no.

Double Barrel 10-02-2008 12:32 PM

Re: Take ‘Dre away and Walter and Daniels make plays
 
Schaub hit AJ in the numbers on 2-3 plays in the endzone during the Titans game. AJ did not do the job he gets paid millions for. One of those completed passes for a TD could have made all the difference in that game.

I'm not down on AJ. But those drops were huge disappointments.

Mr teX 10-02-2008 12:39 PM

Re: Take ‘Dre away and Walter and Daniels make plays
 
Such is life in the nfl for exceptional players on under-talented teams. If i were a d-coordinator i'd take my chances with 2-average players vs. a gamebreaker like AJ too.

kubes & schaub just have to get better at recognizing when defenses start creeping up on those two so he can hit AJ over the top. & everyone else has to make them pay for taking him away. I think all parties did a good job of that last game even though we lost.

For AJ's part.. he just needs to hang in there & take advantage when his opportunities do arise.

hobie 10-02-2008 12:44 PM

Re: Take ‘Dre away and Walter and Daniels make plays
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Double Barrel (Post 1012391)
Schaub hit AJ in the numbers on 2-3 plays in the endzone during the Titans game. AJ did not do the job he gets paid millions for. One of those completed passes for a TD could have made all the difference in that game.

I'm not down on AJ. But those drops were huge disappointments.

You are correct....first time I have seen him drop 2 passes that he has caught 100x before....and I know he's getting tired of losing, as the last few days he's been saying that to reporters and that all he can do is go out and do his thing...I agree, but as a leader, he needs to step up a little more and say something other than he just needs to do his thing....JMHO is all...not down on the man either, as I am sure he's ready to break out, but I just hope his passion for the game here is not disappearing because of all of the losses.

The Pencil Neck 10-02-2008 01:05 PM

Re: Take ‘Dre away and Walter and Daniels make plays
 
One of AJ's best plays last year was when he was the only wideout on the field. We were going with a 2 TE jumbo package and Schaub play faked and then hit AJ deep and on the run. That was against the Chiefs. One of his other great plays last year was against the Saints when we lined up in an I formation with two wideouts, and Schaub play faked to Dayne (everyone bit on the play fake) and then Schaub hit him deep and in stride.

People weren't really too worried about our running game last year but they knew we were committed to running. And because of that, teams really bit on our play fakes (and Schaub can, at times, play fake with the best of them.)

If Gibbs and Slaton (and hopefully Green) start making our running game something to be feared or at least conscious of, I have no doubt we'll be seeing AJ deep even more this season.

da Bull 10-02-2008 01:07 PM

Re: Take ‘Dre away and Walter and Daniels make plays
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolf (Post 1012384)

He's good! He can even catch the ball without looking at it. AJ should teach this to Reeves then he'll become an all-world corner.

imatexan 10-02-2008 01:13 PM

Re: Take ‘Dre away and Walter and Daniels make plays
 
This is the first time AJ had gotten any sort of criticism like this and that is saying something in itself for how long he has been around now.

superdave532 10-02-2008 03:47 PM

Re: Take ‘Dre away and Walter and Daniels make plays
 
we should all consider ourselves lucky to have an amazingly talented and accomplished receiver who gives his all and yet never opens his mouth to complain. how many times has that happened since the forward pass was invented?

HJam72 10-02-2008 03:59 PM

Re: Take ‘Dre away and Walter and Daniels make plays
 
One bad game is too much. Cut him! :tomato: :jk:

leebigeztx 10-02-2008 04:05 PM

Re: Take ‘Dre away and Walter and Daniels make plays
 
Fact of it is, johnson is a very good receiver, but noton t..o., moss, steve smith,fitz, or even brandon marshall level. He's a body catcher, which is cool because t.o. is one, but his yac isn't that great unless he's running full blast.U don't see him breaking tackles, juking,making guys miss or just plowing over gguys.The guys I mentioned above, plus say like boldin, the fun is starting once they get the ball. I think shaub did well not forcing it to johnson. I really think daniels is just as big of mismatch vs a lb or safety as johnson is vs a cb. I wish the texans would iso daniels opposite twin formation matched against a lb and s. I think the offense will hve to play better until the defense decides to show up.


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