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-   -   Perspective (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54047)

Texanmike02 09-30-2008 07:12 PM

Perspective
 
Is it just me or are we having this kind of apocalyptic panic every time we play a string of teams that is decidedly better than are?

The long and short of this team is this. We are the Titans of the late 90's early 2000's. We are getting close. I don't think this is a team that will slowly climb from 7 wins to 12 or 13. This team, to me, will be a 7 winish team (8 or 9 is an outside possibility) for a couple of years (read that this and maybe next... though I really think next year will be a 11 or 12 win season). We have talent in a lot of places. We are missing talent in some key places. Add 3 or 4 guys to this defense and its instantly a vastly different team. I realize that you can say that about most teams... but you can actually do that in an off season.

I think the offense is much closer to what we saw in week 4 than what we saw in weeks 1 and 2. Its on defense that we need a few VERY key pieces to this puzzle. Plug in a big guy in the middle of the line. Replace greenwood. Get a real cover corner. This team is instantly better. Its nice to talk about how we didn't address the needs of this team last year or the year before last, but like everything else in football, its about small progressions keeping the situation manageable.

After the 2-14 season you weren't going to look up and go 13-3. You weren't going to go 10-6. You look to make up ground. Overhaul the OL (vastly different the next year and even more different the following year... now with brown we will finally get some continuity on the line and you guys will be amazed at what that does). Bring in a few components to build on, mario, demeco. Now you have manageable goals for the next year. Add some more pieces, if you can't add starters, add . Look at the roster turnover between years 1 and two of Kubes.

If you can't add starters, add depth. We've taken some gambles. Some haven't paid off (JJ yet) others have. Slaton on the other hand seems to be well on his way to paying off. JJ isn't bad depth, that's for sure. On DL, look at the posibility of having Mario,AO,TJ, and maybe Okam, if he develops (if not, another big guy in the middle) in the rotation. I'm a fan of turning AO into a DE at least part time, switching he and Mario and letting them stunt the hell out of the T/G.

There are bright spots for this team. I originally had us going 9-7... I bought into the hype so to speak because I think this is a 7-8 win team. Its a better team than last years, but its going to have some growing pains. We saw that in Pittsburgh. That was a disaster. We saw that on the punt return.. young players getting turned around... new players not sure of assignments... we'll see it again. Likely for a long time.


Not a fan of Smith's? I'm not saying I am president of his fan club. But I'm not president of the fire him club. Its pretty hard to run a defense when you're over matched talent wise. This just in.... we are over matched. Kind of hard to stop the run by scheming for it when your DL is undersized. I know we've got Okam but he's not ready. Not now. That's why he was a 6th rounder instead of a 2nd rounder.

The bottom line, is this is a team to wait on. How long did Tenn wait on mediocrity before coming dominant. I think we're that same kind of team. I see us putting people in poisition to play in this league for a long long time. If we're not vastly better by the middle of next year, starting to look like a 10+ win team... then its time to panic.

Mike

mussop 10-01-2008 12:08 AM

Re: Perspective
 
You beat me to it. I couldnt agree more.

I was as upset as anyone after each of our first 3 losses. But really what did we expect? There is no way we were going to start off this season looking good. People will say yeh but we shouldnít of looked as bad as we have. BS!! First off we have 3 NEW starters on our offensive line. One is a ROOKIE, our LT (considered the most important position on the line). We have a NEW OL coach teaching a NEW system that (and this is very important) cannot be fully practiced against our D because of possible injuries to our DL.

You cant practice cut blocking like you can a power run blocking scheme. That alone will cause a big learning curve. Throw in the fact that we started the season off against the friken Pittsburg Steelers, Titans and the Jaguars all on the road. Three of the top Defenses in the NFL. I have to say the way our OL played against the Jags really impressed me. Sure they didnít dominate but they showed more improvement over the last couple of weeks than anyone realistically could of expected.

On defense if you look at the personnel you have to question whether the coach is really at fault. We have an undersized Dline that just isnít equipped to stop the run. We have average OLBís and young secondary. Hell you could put all pros at both corner spots and they would still get burned because we cannot get pressure on the QB. Im not starting a KEEP Richard Smith movement but really what is he supposed to do with the hand that has been dealt to him? You say develop a identity? We have one. We are an undersized slow outside young defense that needs some impact players in key positions to compliment the good ones we have.

I still believe this team is heading in the right direction. We have improved every week and now we can take that improvement and work on it at home for the next 4 weeks. Say Im drinking the coolaid or whatever you want. I am going to root for this team just as passionately as I have since day one. I believe after this home stand most of you will to.

valleytexfan 10-01-2008 12:29 AM

Re: Perspective
 
this is a superb thread. I think a lot of people get caught in our microwave society...but yes, this team is looking like it has a future. You couldn't say that before...yes, we want wins now, and they will come. But as far as bigger and better things, we're on our way. Great posts! :goodpost:

TheRealJoker 10-01-2008 08:23 AM

Re: Perspective
 
"Not a fan of Smith's? I'm not saying I am president of his fan club. But I'm not president of the fire him club. Its pretty hard to run a defense when you're over matched talent wise. This just in.... we are over matched. Kind of hard to stop the run by scheming for it when your DL is undersized. I know we've got Okam but he's not ready. Not now. That's why he was a 6th rounder instead of a 2nd rounder. "


So Smith's excuse for consistently fielding one of the worst Ds on Sundays is talent? Tell me, how bad are we talent wise that poor Richard cant seem to even field a competitive unit for 3 years running?

Look at Jim Schwartz in Tenn. That defense was last in the league after 06. Then last year they're top 5, this year they look like the best unit in the league thus far. Were there any major additions? No, although they did lose their best CB Pacman Jones...

I wonder if COACHING had anything to do with that change?!?!?! If we cant expect our DC to get the defense to play like overachievers then he shouldn't be our DC.

PS: Okam was a 5th rounder.

Runner 10-01-2008 08:45 AM

Re: Perspective
 
Just wait until next year.

Next year we could easily have two more new offensive lineman. That will be a good (though often used) excuse to wait until the year after that until the line is any good. By that time Pitts might be showing his mileage and drop down from his averge self.

Given health and a between the tackles running back, the rest of the offense might be good. It will still depend on that re-gelling line though. Johnson might be slowing down by the time that gets fixed. If so, his will have been an incredibly wasted career.

The defense has a long way to go in talent and coaching. If the Texans need bigger defensive lineman, why did they waste such a high pick on a small one? That is lack of direction.

Can a team with no defensive direction replace almost all of its defensive backs and outside linebackers in a year or two? Doubtful when they can't even get up the nerve to replace a failed defensive coordinator when they already have one on staff to replace him. Smith should have been let go this summer, but he got 'one more year'.

Next year. One more year. Just wait and see.

Nice bromides, but not very proactive.

Comparing the Texans to teams that struggle and then find succes is all well and good. However, they are more similar to a team that struggles year after year and never have much success beyond a playoff loss every ten years or so before plunging back down to irrelevance.

maddogmrb 10-01-2008 08:53 AM

Re: Perspective
 
TexanMike said:
"Is it just me or are we having this kind of apocalyptic panic every time we play a string of teams that is decidedly better than are?"


Therein lies the problem. After 7 years and 3 years of Kubiak probably 13 of the 16 games we play are against teams better than us.

HOU-TEX 10-01-2008 08:56 AM

Re: Perspective
 
Reminds me of the movie Groundhog Day. Only instead of a day it's a year. Over and over and over again. We are stuck in the black hole of mediocrity. Every time we begin to "go to the light" we get yanked back down. :pirate:

I like the optimism though. Although, it might be a matter of time before it starts wearing thin, if it hasn't already.

Kaiser Toro 10-01-2008 09:00 AM

Re: Perspective
 
I will paraphrase the Sage of Hampton

Quote:

It's easy to sum it up if you're just talking about perspective. We're sitting here, and I'm supposed to be a fan, and we're talking about perspective. I mean listen, we're sitting here talking about perspective, not a game, not a game, not a game, but we're talking about perspective. Not the game that I go out there and cheer, travel for and pay every game like it's my last but we're talking about perspective man. How silly is that?

Now I know that I'm supposed to lead by example and all that but I'm not shoving that aside like it don't mean anything. I know it's important, I honestly do but we're talking about perspective. We're talking about perspective man. We're talking about perspective. We're talking about perspective. We're not talking about the game. We're talking about perspective. When you come to the stadium, and you see me cheer, you've seen me cheer right, you've seen me give everything I've got, but we're talking about perspective right now.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas...on_transcript/

DBCooper 10-01-2008 11:38 AM

Re: Perspective
 
Who would have thought the day would come when TexanMike is more optimistic than I am.

Tailgate 10-01-2008 12:07 PM

Re: Perspective
 
Great post! Not to mention... when you look at last year, we played the NFC South which was one of the worst divisions last year. That 7-3 record vs. out of conf. teams was a tad inflated due to who we played and the down years they had. But it still went into the hype that had many predicting 10 or 11 wins for us this year.

Then we open up on the road at Tenn, Pitt, and Jax. I mean cmon, it doesnt get much more brutal than that. Throw in a hurricane, many new moving parts, new coaches and schemes,etc,etc.

This team is STILL headed in the right direction. Heck its only game 3 of the season so far. We stilll have ALL 8 HOME GAMES LEFT!! The season is just getting started people.

Texan_Bill 10-01-2008 01:08 PM

Re: Perspective
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro (Post 1011408)
I will paraphrase the Sage of Hampton



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas...on_transcript/

"How in the hell can I make my teammates better by perspective?

ChildressTitanMan 10-01-2008 02:27 PM

Re: Perspective
 
I thought the Texans were going to be a lot better team this year. I don't think a coaching change is the answer.A new HC will likely want to change things too much & delay progress.

I think the Texans main mistake is that you should have finished the job of building the Defence before starting the Offence.Ahmad Green was a gamble with money that could have been spent elsewhere.He wasn't really expensive but he was relative to how much spare money you had at the time.

So far it's looking like it's another tough year to be a Texan fan but there's a lot of football left to play yet.If this year does end up .500 or below it has to be blamed on injuries.I really can't see you not progressing next year at the latest.

mussop 10-01-2008 02:50 PM

Re: Perspective
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by maddogmrb (Post 1011400)
Therein lies the problem. After 7 years and 3 years of Kubiak probably 13 of the 16 games we play are against teams better than us.

Cmon man seriously maddogmrb are you telling me we should of won any of the games we played so far? This season was expected to start slow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealJoker (Post 1011381)
So Smith's excuse for consistently fielding one of the worst Ds on Sundays is talent? Tell me, how bad are we talent wise that poor Richard cant seem to even field a competitive unit for 3 years running?

Look at Jim Schwartz in Tenn. That defense was last in the league after 06. Then last year they're top 5, this year they look like the best unit in the league thus far. Were there any major additions? No, although they did lose their best CB Pacman Jones...

How many of our D players would be starting on the Titans D??


Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealJoker (Post 1011381)
PS: Okam was a 5th rounder.

Dude masterbation will not break youre vow of celebacy.

maddogmrb 10-01-2008 04:20 PM

Re: Perspective
 
[quote=mussop;1011772]Cmon man seriously maddogmrb are you telling me we should of won any of the games we played so far? This season was expected to start slow.
QUOTE]


Seriously, that is NOT what I said at all. What I said is that the problem is that after 7 years, we are still worse than at least 13 of the teams/games on our schedule.

maddogmrb 10-01-2008 04:22 PM

Re: Perspective
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Texanmike (Post 1011177)
If we're not vastly better by the middle of next year, starting to look like a 10+ win team... then its time to panic.

Mike

Isn't that pretty much what we said last year?

Double Barrel 10-01-2008 04:54 PM

Re: Perspective
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mussop (Post 1011772)
Cmon man seriously maddogmrb are you telling me we should of won any of the games we played so far? This season was expected to start slow.

If our defense could stop a 4th and 8, we would have most likely beaten the Jags. Taking a team to OT is indicative that we could have won the game.

The Titans are a good team. But, change a couple of coaching decisions (like kicking FG's instead of going for every 4th down, and mix in a replay challenge), that game could have been different.

Now, I'm not one to sip koolaide. The fact of 0-3 is what it is at the end of the day. However, there exists parallel realities that we could have won at least one of the two above mentioned games. (Obviously, the Steelers just kicked our ass and we never had a shot.)

TheRealJoker 10-01-2008 04:57 PM

Re: Perspective
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mussop (Post 1011772)
Cmon man seriously maddogmrb are you telling me we should of won any of the games we played so far? This season was expected to start slow.



How many of our D players would be starting on the Titans D??




Dude masterbation will not break youre vow of celebacy.

What would the Titans D be ranked if Richard Smith was DC? How would our players have developed on D had they had Jim Schwartz at DC for the past 3 years? I wonder how many Titans players would be starting on the Texans D if that were the case.

Runner 10-01-2008 05:05 PM

Re: Perspective
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Texan_Bill (Post 1011677)
"How in the hell can I make my teammates better by perspective?

That's an easy one!


What player A saw: his teammates missing a bunch of tackles on a messed up not-a-punt play.

Perspective: it's only one play in one game.

What player A thinks: that isn't so bad.

Polo 10-01-2008 05:14 PM

Re: Perspective
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRealJoker (Post 1011901)
What would the Titans D be ranked if Richard Smith was DC? How would our players have developed on D had they had Jim Schwartz at DC for the past 3 years? I wonder how many Titans players would be starting on the Texans D if that were the case.

You're dodging his questions...

How many players on the Titans D would you trade str8 up for our guys ? Schemes be damned...

If you were starting a team, how many of our players would you choose if you could only pick from our defense and the Titans defense ? One starter from each position, how many Texans make the cut ?

buddyboy 10-01-2008 05:20 PM

Re: Perspective
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Polo (Post 1011921)
You're dodging his questions...

How many players on the Titans D would you trade str8 up for our guys ? Schemes be damned...

If you were starting a team, how many of our players would you if you could only pick from our defense and the Titans defense ? One starter from each position, how many Texans make the cut ?

Morlon Greenwood.


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