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-   -   Have Things Turned Out As Planned? (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51616)

CloakNNNdagger 07-10-2008 08:15 AM

Have Things Turned Out As Planned?
 
This is a thread that I am beginning as a springboard from a Nunusguy post on another thread.


The Texans placed a lot of emphasis on the planning of strategies to make Reliant Stadium and its support facilities the safety and maximum home field advantage:

Real grass which could be maintained fresh every game by allowing frequent feeding by sun and changing pallets often............The architects miscalculated the angle of the sun and the amount of time that the grass would be exposed for adequate growth. The frequency of changing of the pallets initially was very inadequate. Recently, the grass condition at game time has been improved by more frequent pallet changes. However, changes have not been able to be performed often enough to maintain a relatively uniform field.

Practices in the mid day Houston sun would harden the troops. There is no doubt that the 1st few years, the players sustained an inordinate number of muscle injuries during OTA’s, TC, preseason and regular season practices, with the heat factor (dehydration, improper pre-activity preparation, etc). This has improved in recent years, but is still suspect.

The heat factor would beat down the opponent. The sun would fry the opponent’s bench. We only have to ask ourselves, how often do we have the roof open in extremes of heat???? How often are the players exposed to extreme heat and humidity in away games???

maddogmrb 07-10-2008 08:47 AM

Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?
 
Seldom does anything happen as planned.

You make your plan.

Work your plan.

Adjust your plan along the way.

Look for improvement every year.

Good news is cheerleaders are always hot!

:texflag:

nunusguy 07-10-2008 09:11 AM

Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger (Post 951516)
The heat factor would beat down the opponent. The sun would fry the opponent’s bench. We only have to ask ourselves, how often do we have the roof open in extremes of heat???? How often are the players exposed to extreme heat and humidity in away games???

I didn't attend the Pittsburg game in Reliant a few years back, but from what I understand that strategy worked out OK then ? But for the Steelers. And they come from a climate which is anything but like the very steamy, hot climate we have in Houston so go figure ? And many fans were crucified by the temp & humity from what I understand ?

Brando 07-10-2008 09:22 AM

Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nunusguy (Post 951536)
I didn't attend the Pittsburg game in Reliant a few years back, but from what I understand that strategy worked out OK then ? But for the Steelers. And they come from a climate which is anything but like the very steamy, hot climate we have in Houston so go figure ? And many fans were crucified by the temp & humity from what I understand ?

That game defined the 2005 season. :gun:

alphajoker 07-10-2008 10:28 AM

Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brando (Post 951541)
That game defined the 2005 season. :gun:

What 2005 season? I've blocked that season out of my head. :tease:

ChampionTexan 07-10-2008 10:53 AM

Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nunusguy (Post 951536)
I didn't attend the Pittsburg game in Reliant a few years back, but from what I understand that strategy worked out OK then ? But for the Steelers. And they come from a climate which is anything but like the very steamy, hot climate we have in Houston so go figure ? And many fans were crucified by the temp & humity from what I understand ?

Not to poke at old wounds, but that was the home opener for a team coming off of a 7-9 season. We were playing a team coming off a 8-8 season, so expectations were high. We are painfully aware of how that season went for the 7-9 team, and that 8-8 team ultimately was the Super Bowl Champion. In retrospect, the idea that playing conditions would have a meaningful impact on the outcome of that game is laughable.

As to the overall concept, the Texans went 6-2 in Reliant last year, and are 10-6 in in Kubiak era. This compares to 4-12 on the road. There appears to be a developing home-field advantage. As with so many things about this franchise, if we keep doing what we're doing, everything will be fine. Perhaps there will be a bump or two along the way, but we're doing it right.

Buffi2 07-10-2008 11:00 AM

Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?
 
Man Plans - God Laughs....Yiddish expression. :gun:

Honoring Earl 34 07-10-2008 11:08 AM

Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?
 
Quote:

Practices in the mid day Houston sun would harden the troops. There is no doubt that the 1st few years, the players sustained an inordinate number of muscle injuries during OTA’s, TC, preseason and regular season practices, with the heat factor (dehydration, improper pre-activity preparation, etc). This has improved in recent years, but is still suspect.

The heat factor would beat down the opponent. The sun would fry the opponent’s bench. We only have to ask ourselves, how often do we have the roof open in extremes of heat???? How often are the players exposed to extreme heat and humidity in away games???
I think the hardened pros from 2002-2004 were Sharper , Glenn , Dunta , AJ , and Walker . The rest were ... when the going gets tough ... hey we're an expansion team ... it showed in 2005 . This does'nt translate well if your going to try to out tough someone .

TexansFanatic 07-10-2008 01:23 PM

Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger (Post 951516)
This is a thread that I am beginning as a springboard from a Nunusguy post on another thread.


The Texans placed a lot of emphasis on the planning of strategies to make Reliant Stadium and its support facilities the safety and maximum home field advantage:

Real grass which could be maintained fresh every game by allowing frequent feeding by sun and changing pallets often............The architects miscalculated the angle of the sun and the amount of time that the grass would be exposed for adequate growth. The frequency of changing of the pallets initially was very inadequate. Recently, the grass condition at game time has been improved by more frequent pallet changes. However, changes have not been able to be performed often enough to maintain a relatively uniform field.

Practices in the mid day Houston sun would harden the troops. There is no doubt that the 1st few years, the players sustained an inordinate number of muscle injuries during OTA’s, TC, preseason and regular season practices, with the heat factor (dehydration, improper pre-activity preparation, etc). This has improved in recent years, but is still suspect.

The heat factor would beat down the opponent. The sun would fry the opponent’s bench. We only have to ask ourselves, how often do we have the roof open in extremes of heat???? How often are the players exposed to extreme heat and humidity in away games???

I have to say I am a bit PO'd about the practice in the heat. It hasn't helped the Texans in the least and there is plenty of evidence that it has hurt the team. CUT THAT OUT! We don't really even have an outdoor stadium anyway. The roof is ALWAYS closed.

Joe Texan 07-10-2008 01:52 PM

Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?
 
We have adjusted down to when to open the roof and if it is above 80 degrees then you can bank on no sunburn.

Double Barrel 07-10-2008 02:01 PM

Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nunusguy (Post 951536)
I didn't attend the Pittsburg game in Reliant a few years back, but from what I understand that strategy worked out OK then ? But for the Steelers. And they come from a climate which is anything but like the very steamy, hot climate we have in Houston so go figure ? And many fans were crucified by the temp & humity from what I understand ?

The Steelers also brought cooled benches while the Texans were sitting on metal ones with no cooling features. Whatever braniac with the Texans made that decision was hopefully fired with the rest of that pathetic staff.

Reliant is a dome with a sun roof. I'm always looking down at the field anyway, so I could honestly care less if that thing is open or closed during the game.

El Tejano 07-10-2008 03:11 PM

Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?
 
It has worked a few times on kickoffs. Last year against the Jags come to mind. Ever since we messed up punt returns against the Bills in 06 Kubiak has used the sunlight to our favor.

BornOrange 07-11-2008 01:14 AM

Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?
 
After that Pittsburgh game, I doubt we will ever try to use the heat as an advantage again. Too many fans were spoiled by the Astrodome and are too used to being comfortable during a game as opposed to the rest of the football universe who realize that weather is a factor in football games.

Many franchises actually get part of their identity from their weather. Green Bay, Chicago, New England, Buffalo, Cleveland have all used the cold to their advantage. Miami has used its warm weather to its advantage, as has Dallas. Miami, San Francisco, Oakland and recently Seattle have also had an advantage by playing in rainy conditions at home. When Minnesota moved into a domed stadium, they actually lost a large part of their identity and have gone from a tough defensive team to a team that is usually soft.

I'm afraid that prioritizing fan comfort works against what should be the highest priority for the Texans....winning games.

Speedy 07-11-2008 02:11 AM

Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?
 
Well, it's not a very good plan to think you're going to use your stadium to help you win football games. Stadiums don't win football games, good teams do, in any stadium. Put a team on the field that wins football games, and I don't care if they play in the Fiesta parking lot.

You don't go to Lambeau in December and lose because of the stadium, or the weather that stadium allows in. You lose because the Packers are usually a pretty good football team. And when the Packers weren't very good back in the 70's and 80's, you go to Lambeau and beat them. Doesn't matter about the weather. Where was the stadium "advantage" then?

Personally, in this day and age of technology, I find it difficult to believe there was a miscalculation of sun angle by architects regarding Reliant. I think that's just the way it was going to be from the get go, once the rodeo said there needed to be a roof on the thing. The problem in the beginning was that they simply didn't have enough pallets to rotate. I think that has now been rectified. I don't recall the field looking as bad at the end of the year the last couple of seasons, as it did the 1st couple of years. They have adequate pallets now that they can switch out. Now, sometimes there's a problem switching when you have high school and college games Friday and Saturday, and then a Texans game Sunday. Yeah, the field will look a little worn then, but still nothing like I've seen Hienz Field and some of the other open air grass fields, look like in December.

Quote:

Many franchises actually get part of their identity from their weather. Green Bay, Chicago, New England, Buffalo, Cleveland have all used the cold to their advantage. Miami has used its warm weather to its advantage, as has Dallas. Miami, San Francisco, Oakland and recently Seattle have also had an advantage by playing in rainy conditions at home. When Minnesota moved into a domed stadium, they actually lost a large part of their identity and have gone from a tough defensive team to a team that is usually soft.
Again, that has nothing to do with stadiums and weather. It has to do with those teams being good. How come Miami hasn't used their so-called advantage lately? Or the Niners? Or Buffalo? Why, because it has nothing to do with their stadiums or the weather they play in. It has to do with their football teams not being very good.

What advantage or identity does Dallas have? They can play in 105 degree heat in September and then play an ice bowl game on Thanksgiving on the same field.

BattleRedToro 07-11-2008 07:28 AM

Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?
 
If my memory serves me correctly, the architects did calculate for not only the Sun, but the prevailing wind direction as well, but they got trumped because those that have the ultimate say wanted the stadium to run parallel to Kirby, so that it would look better from the street.

Texans_Chick 07-11-2008 09:36 AM

Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BornOrange (Post 952064)
After that Pittsburgh game, I doubt we will ever try to use the heat as an advantage again. Too many fans were spoiled by the Astrodome and are too used to being comfortable during a game as opposed to the rest of the football universe who realize that weather is a factor in football games.

Many franchises actually get part of their identity from their weather. Green Bay, Chicago, New England, Buffalo, Cleveland have all used the cold to their advantage. Miami has used its warm weather to its advantage, as has Dallas. Miami, San Francisco, Oakland and recently Seattle have also had an advantage by playing in rainy conditions at home. When Minnesota moved into a domed stadium, they actually lost a large part of their identity and have gone from a tough defensive team to a team that is usually soft.

I'm afraid that prioritizing fan comfort works against what should be the highest priority for the Texans....winning games.

It's not just a fan comfort thing. It is fan safety. They ran out of water, fans physically couldn't sit in the seats, and ambulances were all around the stadium.

The Texans have a huge file filled with all the problems that they had during the Pittsburgh game.

Reliant Stadium isn't an open air stadium. It is very vertical so little wind gets in. If it didn't have a roof, it wouldn't exist because the Texans owe their existence to the rodeo supporting the plan.

So:

Having a stadium with a retractable roof > no team at all.

TD 07-11-2008 09:46 AM

Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Texans_Chick (Post 952111)
Reliant Stadium isn't an open air stadium. It is very vertical so little wind gets in. If it didn't have a roof, it wouldn't exist because the Texans owe their existence to the rodeo supporting the plan.

The vertical seat design is its best feature IMO. The upper level seats I sat in at Reliant had a better view than my mezzanine season tickets I had at the dome.

Personally, given the advances in turf, I think Reliant should scrap the grass, put in turf and stick with the roof policy based purely on fan comfort.

infantrycak 07-11-2008 09:49 AM

Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TD (Post 952114)
Personally, given the advances in turf, I think Reliant should scrap the grass, put in turf and stick with the roof policy based purely on fan comfort.

The players love the grass and I think the team should defer to them.

On the roof, I would just like them to open the range up a few degrees. No 95 degree games but edge it up 2-3 degrees this year and see how it works out so maybe we get more than one open roof game per season.

TD 07-11-2008 09:59 AM

Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by infantrycak (Post 952115)
The players love the grass and I think the team should defer to them.

Agree if that's true. I was under the impression that many preferred the new turf as safer with more consistent footing.

Either way, you're right. The players should have the ultimate say.

BornOrange 07-11-2008 11:14 AM

Re: Have Things Turned Out As Planned?
 
No, weather alone doesn't win games. But it can be a factor between teams that are closely matched. Look at the lack of success of dome teams playing in cold weather during the playoffs. I guarantee you that dome teams and southern teams have a better road record in games over 40 than in under 40.


I admit I didn't think about Reliant's vertical design. Yes, it does make it difficult for air to circulate compared to the open air stadiums I am used to like UT, A&M, Rice, Baylor, etc. However, Dallas has an even worse situation with that stupid little hole in the roof. I think a big problem with the Pittsburgh game was that fans and stadium personnel just weren't prepared for a hot weather game. If everyone knows that it is going to be a sauna and takes the proper precautions (including giving someone else your tickets if you aren't able to endure the heat), there wouldn't be so many problems.


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