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-   -   Is it too early to know? (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5070)

jriney8 12-12-2004 11:33 PM

Is it too early to know?
 
I'm stuck debating on whether Carr is the real deal or not. I mean, it's easy to point the finger at him and give him the blame for what's going on, but we all know that there are more problems going on with our offense than just David. But at the same time, this is year 3 for the young QB. I know he's still pretty young, but shouldn't we see more signs of improvement from him by now....even with a team only in it's 3rd year? The mere fact of knowing our offense would be better with a QB such as McNabb, Peyton, Dante, hell even Brees....this fact just proves how a solid QB can give rise to an average system. I think that David has been given too much cushion. "It's only their 3rd year as a franchise....he's only in HIS 3rd year....the O-line doesn't hold up for him..." There could be a million excuses. The fact is that if we stuck a proven QB in our system, as crippled as it is, we'd win more games. Wouldn't we? I mean, as a die-hard Texan fan, it kills me to see our 3rd year QB jump out and scramble out of the pocket either to throw it away or take sacks, when he simply needed to step up into the pocket. He makes routine fundamental mistakes like this constantly! At what point do you say that Carr isn't holding up to draft expectations? Do we wait until our system is just right, so the QB has the opportunity to prove himself? After all, how many teams in the NFL these days have that situation going for them? I personally was elated when we drafted David. And for the past 2 and a half years, I've had that attitude of waiting for him to develop. And it hurts to even think about David as being somewhat of a bust. But at what point does the reality of losing games make us question his leadership and ability to make things happen?

HJam72 12-13-2004 12:16 AM

It's just way too early, man. A QB needs a looooong time to develop. The fact the he has flashes of brilliance is all you can expect right now, ESPECIALLY WHEN SETH WAND IS SITTING ON HIS BUTT and McKinney is just standing there and all Wiegert ever does is jump before the ball is snapped.

Look at how McNair did early on. I remember he couldn't EVER pass, except dump-offs to the RB. You think Carr is bad about that. McNair was TERRIBLE about it. Other guys like Aikman and Farve had a rough time for years too. It just takes time....and some protection, for crying out loud. I swear, I thought McNair was gonna turn out to be a complete and total bust at one time. STEVE MCNAIR!!! The same guy that's been to the SB and was co-MVP with Payton Manning last year!

Hervoyel 12-13-2004 12:23 AM

There are things David doesn't do well. He's not flawless. It is too early to tell whether he's the "real deal" though and we should all keep that in mind. There are so many different factors that go into making an NFL quarterback (even a bad NFL quarterback) that it's hard to put the blame or credit on him alone. They always seem to catch it though.

I haven't seen Carr with real "time" to throw yet in a complete game. Sometimes for a half or a quarter but not once have I seen him have one of those games where nobody even gets near him. More important than that though is that every single time I've seen Carr get pressure since the day the Chargers sacked him 9 times he changes. Carr is (understandably) hit shy. You put some licks on him and his game goes right out the window. Sometimes it only goes for the rest of the series, sometimes it's the rest of the game.

2002 damaged Carr more than the Texans want to admit. That was just plain wrong to do to him. Weekly I watch him play and think to myself "This guy threw 40+ TD's in his senior year?" and I don't mean it as a knock on Carr. I just don't think his development is where it should be at this point and I place the "blame" for that on the people who's job it is to develop him.

He's going to have to find a way to not miss a step after he gets sacked because even if our line gets a hundred times better it's going to happen to him. He needs the Texans to figure out how to protect him because until he starts trusting the line he's going to need more protection than other guys. I think it's that deep in his head at this point. When Carr craters because of a hit or a sack the entire offense craters along with him.

jriney8 12-13-2004 01:19 AM

I agree Hervoyel....it just seems like he buckles when he's pressured. Look at a QB like McNabb...granted he's a rare gem...but he gets pressured constantly and avoids it one way or another. I'm not trying to compare Carr to McNabb, seeing how he's only a junior in the league...but there are average QB's out there that don't take as many sacks as Carr in pressure situations. And it's the QB's job to know how to step up into the pocket and find the receivers....not flush out at the first sign of collapse and panick. That is something I would expect of Eli Manning or any other rookie..not a 3rd year QB who is supposedly going to be great someday. There is partial blame on the line sometimes..but not all the time. Partial blame also goes to the QB's coach who doesn't kick his *ss when he does it 5 times a game.

fresno8 12-13-2004 01:31 AM

David Carr
 
I'm a die-hard Carr fan and I'll be the first to admit he's been bad the last few weeks. Today however in the face of pressure he did the best he could and did all right. However until the o-line gives him a half second he'll never set in the pocket or feel comfortable in it. There has been grumbling that he locks into his first read or immediately dumps the ball to his saftey valve. Well, I have watched every game and that's all he has had time to do lately. We could run some quick slants and outs, but the coaches obviously don't think that's a good idea(don't know why/ fire palmer) No one was complaining about him during the 4-3 start when he was putting up 250 w/ a couple TD's a game. He has progressed well this year when he's had time and looked bad when not given time, but anyone would look bad if they got hit and pressured as much as he has. Bottom line when Carr and his receivers are given time they're very good. Give him time and a line and he'll be something special.

HJam72 12-13-2004 01:41 AM

I'm guessing that the LBs are dropped back and right in the way of that slant pass. I think somebody needs to try blocking the DLs and the TE needs to get it in gear and get up field.

TexansTrueFan 12-13-2004 02:49 AM

haha jow can ya say a dif QB like mcnabb or farve would do better here ??? They have ALWAYS had a good line to protect them unlike carr, and if it seems so easy to make things happen with 5 difenders in your face JRINEY than why dont ya go out and show us how its done. and did you say step up in the pocket :heh: THERE IS NO POCKET FOR HIM TO STEP UP IN !!!!!!!!!!! :loser

jriney8 12-13-2004 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexansTrueFan
haha jow can ya say a dif QB like mcnabb or farve would do better here ??? They have ALWAYS had a good line to protect them unlike carr, and if it seems so easy to make things happen with 5 difenders in your face JRINEY than why dont ya go out and show us how its done. and did you say step up in the pocket :heh: THERE IS NO POCKET FOR HIM TO STEP UP IN !!!!!!!!!!! :loser

I'll be the first to admit that I'd be a terrible QB..lol..but I'm not getting paid to be one either. It's a pressure job, and they know that going in. It's a job for a leader. It's a job for a difference maker...the one that makes things happen. Your comment about no pocket to step up into....I disagree. I won't bore you with the comment that I watch every game, because I think we all do....but I've seen plenty of opportunities presented to Carr where he could avoid a panick attack and sack by stepping up into the pocket rather than flush out. I see it time and time again where he gets flustered and feels he has to scramble. The pocket collapses a lot..yes. But the times it doesn't, he should be comfortable with staying in it by now. He's not as mobile as he thinks evidently.


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