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-   -   Fumble!?!?!??? (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5066)

HJam72 12-12-2004 09:14 PM

Fumble!?!?!???
 
OK, Robinson hits Manning while simultaneously hitting the ball in Manning's throwing hand. The ball comes out. First, the refs rule that Manning was in the motion of throwing. Capers wants a review. The refs then find that Manning was NOT in the motion of throwing and that Dunta did, in fact, knock the ball out, completely of his own doing. BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER. COLTS STILL GET THE BALL BACK.

I'm not arguing over whether this is or is not a game breaking play. I just want to know who the COMPLETE MORON is who came up with that rule. Am I missing something? Did the Colts actually recover the fumble, because that's not what I saw? I am wrong about something in that first paragraph?

Here's what I think. I think it's a perfect example of how the league is leaning more and more toward the offense in every way. If you fall down sometime in the next minute or two after a fumble then you were down by contact. If you hit the QB even a split second after he throws a pass, then it's roughing the passer. If you take 3 steps and get outside the tackle, then you can throw the ball backwards and into the stands behind your own endzond, but that's still not intentional grounding. If you even sneeze on a receiver, then it's a freaking 45 yard penalty. The man got his ego chopped off and fumbled the ball!!! Don't give it back to him, for crying out loud. He doesn't need the refs to help him.

Vinny 12-12-2004 09:18 PM

Whistle blows. Play dead. Nothing matters once they blow their whistles.

HJam72 12-12-2004 09:25 PM

Uh-huh. Makes sense. They need to start firing referees for stopping plays like that all the time. It happens way too much. That's a huge play and, in closer competitions, it could be a game breaker.

I swear, it's like they blow the whistle so they won't have to decipher what's going to happen next. Oh, it's happening to fast and I need a time-out to think about it---tweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!! Who cares if you just gave the offense their life back.

Here's the thing. They gotta let that play continue. The ref thinks he saw forward motion, but you can't tell me he was really certain about it. He blew the whistle to try and stop EVERYBODY from jumping on the ball. They need to let the play continue and then allow for the review. Just because you sorta, kinda, mighta, thought you saw that the play was over doesn't mean you have to always blow the whistle immediately and screw the defense. When are they gonna start blowing the whistle when a guys wide open with the ball at the 50? Hey, he's gonna score anyway. Let's just save him all that running and give him 6 points. :hairpull:

coltsrock 12-12-2004 09:37 PM

Actually, it's not quite the conspiracy you think it is. Last week (I think), the same thing happened to the Colts defense. They forced the fumble, but it was called an incomplete pass and the whistle was blown. Play over. Coach Dungy challenged, and it was ruled a fumble, but since the whistle had blown, it went back to the offense. The only thing the Colts got was the loss of the yards and the down.

In the game today, the pass was called a forward pass. There is no reason to let the play progress at that point, and to protect the players the whistle is blown and the play is stopped. Therefore the defense could not recover.

It's unfortunate, but that's the only way it can work. The recovery was made AFTER the whistle, therefore not made when the play was active.

This is one of the anomolies given to us by replay. And it has to be that way. Do I think that was a fumble? Yep! Do I think the refs blew the call? Yep! Did they do the right thing with the possession? Yep, they did the only thing they could.

It's an imperfect world. There were enough calls tat went the wrong way on BOTH sides. I know that sucks for you all, but they did what they had to do with the possession once the call was reversed.

Great game today, guys! You all have been down on your team all week leading up to this game. They're a good team, and the pieces are starting to fall into place. That's the lowest score the Colts have had this year! You've got some good times ahead! See you next year! Good luck through the rest of the season, and here's to NO INJURIES!

HJam72 12-12-2004 10:00 PM

According to the rules, they did what they had to do. You THINK the plays over , so you HAVE to blow the whistle. It's a stupid rule. All the players are already in the midst of battle, so to speak. It's not like somebody's gonna get caught off guard and get hurt. The rule needs to change, and, yes, then they need to come down hard on refs who end plays that aren't over.

It's not right when it happens to the Colts, or us, or anybody else. It needs to stop. The end of an important play, or any play, should never be decided by the fact that a REFEREE made a mistake during the play. I know it happens, but it's just absurd. They shouldn't be getting all whistle happy until the ball is either out of bounds or underneath somebody who's laying on the ground (or in the endzone).

HJam72 12-12-2004 10:05 PM

The Colts were, however, the better team today (no big surprise). Good luck in the playoffs.

Newly 12-12-2004 10:30 PM

I understand the rule, but what is it with the officials these last few games. Picking up flags, inadvertant whistles, long conferences with each other, coaches, players. I was under the impression that you do not throw the flag unless you are 100 % sure you saw a foul. the only time that I would think that you might have to pick up a flag is ifthe ball was tipped on a pass interference call and the tip not seen by the back judge. this is the second week in a row that an official has picked up the flag for blocking in the back. Either the block is in the back and you throw the flag or it was from the side and you don't throw the flag.It is not the easiest call to make sometimes, but the official needs to make hte call and stick with it. Also with all the conferences and official timeouts, the game seems to lose all rythym. Hard for either team to get comfortable.
The Colts were the better team today and I am not blaming the officials, but i had to get this rant out of my system.

HJam72 12-12-2004 11:30 PM

We got away with that one, too. He threw the flag and then reversed the call and said it was not a block in the back after all. IT WAS TOO A BLOCK IN BACK! The colts should've been able to review it and make him reverse his reverse, lol.

TexansTrueFan 12-13-2004 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coltsrock
Actually, it's not quite the conspiracy you think it is. Last week (I think), the same thing happened to the Colts defense. They forced the fumble, but it was called an incomplete pass and the whistle was blown. Play over. Coach Dungy challenged, and it was ruled a fumble, but since the whistle had blown, it went back to the offense. The only thing the Colts got was the loss of the yards and the down.

In the game today, the pass was called a forward pass. There is no reason to let the play progress at that point, and to protect the players the whistle is blown and the play is stopped. Therefore the defense could not recover.

It's unfortunate, but that's the only way it can work. The recovery was made AFTER the whistle, therefore not made when the play was active.

This is one of the anomolies given to us by replay. And it has to be that way. Do I think that was a fumble? Yep! Do I think the refs blew the call? Yep! Did they do the right thing with the possession? Yep, they did the only thing they could.

It's an imperfect world. There were enough calls tat went the wrong way on BOTH sides. I know that sucks for you all, but they did what they had to do with the possession once the call was reversed.

Great game today, guys! You all have been down on your team all week leading up to this game. They're a good team, and the pieces are starting to fall into place. That's the lowest score the Colts have had this year! You've got some good times ahead! See you next year! Good luck through the rest of the season, and here's to NO INJURIES!


oh yeah and i suppose that call really hurt the colts chances of winning huh :hmmm:

infantrycak 12-13-2004 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny
Whistle blows. Play dead. Nothing matters once they blow their whistles.

Well that explains it, but it doesn't make it a good call. Why exactly was a whistle blown at that point in the play? Absolutely miserable call. Of course it matched the "Manning was down by stop of forward progress" call--anyone want to seriously say that if Manning had gotten a pass off as he was attempting to do at the three yard line that the refs wouldn't have called it a completion?--by the way the freakin whistle hadn't been blown yet on that play.

TheOgre 12-13-2004 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infantrycak
Well that explains it, but it doesn't make it a good call. Why exactly was a whistle blown at that point in the play? Absolutely miserable call. Of course it matched the "Manning was down by stop of forward progress" call--anyone want to seriously say that if Manning had gotten a pass off as he was attempting to do at the three yard line that the refs wouldn't have called it a completion?--by the way the freakin whistle hadn't been blown yet on that play.

Hey if the whistle blew, then the team shouldn't lose a timeout and review. It should have been an unreviewable call.

I was upset about the non-call on the intentional grounding by Manning. It was weird they called it a sack when the guy hadn't even touched him yet.

BigDTexansFan 12-13-2004 09:29 AM

2 Words........Ed Hoculi
 
Even the name sounds bad, have watched enuff games to know Ed Hoculi and Tom Brown (bozo from Jets game) are 2 of the worst refs in NFL. They consistently blow calls and then when asked to review ( don't we all wish when our boss complained could review our own mistakes) they always uphold their blown calls. NFL will be a joke as long as they do not properly utilize instant replay and free up coaches to help them....look at MLB twice they stopped play and reviewed and made the right call (and not for pizza).


:thud:

wiley2002 12-13-2004 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDTexansFan
Even the name sounds bad, have watched enuff games to know Ed Hoculi and Tom Brown (bozo from Jets game) are 2 of the worst refs in NFL. They consistently blow calls and then when asked to review ( don't we all wish when our boss complained could review our own mistakes) they always uphold their blown calls. NFL will be a joke as long as they do not properly utilize instant replay and free up coaches to help them....look at MLB twice they stopped play and reviewed and made the right call (and not for pizza).

That and don't let the refs be like gods out on the field.

cuppacoffee 12-13-2004 10:27 AM

The refs are only human
 
Maybe they wanted to help the Colts so they could tell their grandchildren that they were there when Payaton set the record. :jk:

cac :coffee:

wiley2002 12-13-2004 10:38 AM

Instead of NFL teams firing their coaches at the first sign of a losing season, maybe the league should consider firing refs after blowing games like this all the friggin' time.

Double Barrel 12-13-2004 10:51 AM

I'm even more aggravated to hear on Texans radio during the game that the refs told Brett Favre that time was about to run out and that he needs to call a timeout. Favre did and it gave them a chance to win the game with a fieldgoal! (Mark Vandamer and John Granato were talking about it.)

Refs should NOT help out teams in this way! This defies the aura of impartial decisions and shows preferential treatment. Total B.S.!!

Hervoyel 12-13-2004 10:51 AM

It's just one of those things. It's the kind of call where you get the shaft even if it gets corrected you still can't make it right. What drove me nuts more than anything once I understood what had happened was Randy Cross talking about how "the correct call ended up being made". That's just not the case. The correct call couldn't be made because the fool with the whistle blew it before the play had truly ended. The official made a mistake and the rule book then dictated that the mistake, once it had been acknowledged, was validated.

They spotted the ball at the place it hit the ground per the rules but what if the Colts had been throwing on 3rd and 1 or 2? What if the ball had been batted fifteen yards down the field? The Colts would have had a first down or some other ridiculous outcome. The only way the Texans could have possibly come up with the ball in this scenario was for Sharper to actually pluck it out of the air before it hit the ground.

No sense worrying about it anymore though. It's just one of those awkward places in the rule book that you hope doesn't come up in your game. Maybe it could be addressed or made more equitable but I don't see how.

El Tejano 12-13-2004 11:43 AM

I think this game was a bunch of **** and it was obvious the NFL was determined to see Payton Manning break the record. It seemed as if the officials were going out of their way to give Payton the ball back. How convenient it is to make the "correct" calls for this team but make some piece of **** intentional grounding call last week on a miscommunication from QB to receiver. This makes two weeks in a row.

I really feel the NFL wanted their Poster Child to break this record now.

Double Barrel 12-13-2004 11:47 AM

I agree El Tejano. It does seem there is a bit of favoring going on with the NFL's golden child. Just my opinion, of course. ;)

My buddies and I were laughing at the game, as we fully expected a penalty thrown for "Impeding Payton's Chance to Break the Record". Twweeeeet, send three defenders to the penalty box! :heh:

El Tejano 12-13-2004 11:50 AM

It was very plain to see and anyone who doesn't think so even a little bit, is in denial.


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