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-   -   Good answer to a fire Palmer question (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4960)

Wolf 12-09-2004 12:23 AM

Good answer to a fire Palmer question
 
Quote:

Question: You say you take our questions but for last six weeks you have failed to address the most glaring problem with the Texans, the offense. How long must we fans endure the ineffectiveness of Chris Palmer? This man has to go! Many fans patience are wearing thin with his very horrible game planning and inept offense.
Jimmy in Houston
Answer: I've addressed this before, Jimmy, but I'd be happy to do it again. If Chris Palmer were the Texans' biggest problem, they'd certainly be better than 5-7. Under Palmer, the Texans improved from 32nd to 31st in total offense from 2002 to 2003. That might not seem like much, but they currently rank 14th, which suggest major improvement from their first two years. Eighteen teams average fewer yards per game than the Texans. Should those teams be looking for new offensive coordinators, too?

Jimmy, no one will argue the Texans' offense has struggled in the second half of the season, but I don't understand all of the Palmer bashing. Players play the game. As for anyone whose patience might be wearing thin, perhaps they should rethink their decision to tie their emotions to an expansion football team. Remember, this team has been around for just three years. No one seems to like hearing that, but facts are facts. Aren't the Indianapolis Colts a better offensive team than they were three years ago? Regardless of whether you like Palmer, if you can't see how much the Texans' offense has improved in three years, you simply aren't being realistic.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/2787648

bckey 12-09-2004 03:12 AM

You're simply not being realistic if you think the Texans have improved offensively. They look like an unorganized circus on the field at times. The only player on offense that has shown improvement is A. Johnson.

ccdude730 12-09-2004 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bckey
You're simply not being realistic if you think the Texans have improved offensively. They look like an unorganized circus on the field at times. The only player on offense that has shown improvement is A. Johnson.

i personally do think that we have continued to improve yearly, offensivly as well as defensivly, and id like to think that im an extremely realistic person. andre is still learning to beat double teams...thats improvement, david carr is really trying to sell the play action (looks funny at times) but thats improvment. the oline is learning a blocking scheme, and inconsistant at times , but it seems to improve running lanes for DD, and THAT is improvement. open your eyes and realize the glass isnt just half empty. sounds cliche but there is always something to learn from past games and i doubt the learning curve for our offense has regressed.

CrumplerFan 12-09-2004 06:32 AM

I would start to ask:What has Palmer to work with?

I think that the Gm has done quiet a good job to put this team together.

I believe that you can add some FA to an existent core of players, use an established system, and after that process is done, then any team in the league can skyrocket.

Imo the Texans don't have established their system and still need some players to complete the core unit. Some hangovers from the Expansion draft were used to fill in but aren't the best fit. You can do better and maximize your output by that. So i think, they hit the acheivable limit for this year. They have the potential to go up, but Stability isn't there. But the Texans have more stability than last year.

Saying that i doubt that Palmer could do better. The staff makes game plans, prepares the player and tries to realise that the mindset of all 53 members is focused and right.

If Palmer would have benched your best OL and because of that DD and Carr have no time and lanes, alright. Then go and question him, but with that Oline Material you need a better oline coach used to work small miracles or just some better play.

HJam72 12-09-2004 08:34 AM

I think we'll know a lot more in about a week and half. If they beat Chicago, they'll look a lot more like a team that is improving. I don't have to tell anyone how much better they'll look if they actually manage to beat Indy.

I find it a little strange that Cowboys fans are talking about how great the Cowboys are doing after that win in Seattle and some of them are talking possible playoffs (NFC--go figure), while we're so upset with the Texans for getting stomped several times. Both teams have the same record. I understand the difference, but it's a little weird.

Lucky 12-09-2004 08:44 AM

Quote:

Jimmy, no one will argue the Texans' offense has struggled in the second half of the season, but I don't understand all of the Palmer bashing. Players play the game.
And coaches coach the game. If coaching didn't matter, I doubt owners would be handing out multi-million $ contracts to them. But they are, so I'm assuming that coaching does play a role in a team's successes & failures.

The best retort to the "Fire Palmer", "Fire Capers", "Dump Carr", etc. is:

It ain't gonna happen. Get over it.

Doug 12-09-2004 09:17 AM

I actually agree with every bit of the first post.

Wolf 12-09-2004 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bckey
You're simply not being realistic if you think the Texans have improved offensively. They look like an unorganized circus on the field at times. The only player on offense that has shown improvement is A. Johnson.

How is that not realistic? Like he said. there are 18 offenses that are worse than us. Yes, our offense isn't perfect. Is it Palmers fault that a) Carr locks onto one receiver before he throws? b) for some reason forgets that he has usually 4 or 5 options on a pass play but somehow it is just AJ and DD that gets it?

Problem I see is redzone offense needs improvement and if it is the coaching (and this sounds ironic given Capers stress for discipline) it is the mental mistakes that the offense makes. (i.e. penalties)

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NF...r?sort_col_1=4

TheOgre 12-09-2004 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hetero doxy
and, i think dom capers is who he is, just as i think tom coughlin is who he is, and i happen to think neither will ever coach a super bowl champion, for fundamental reasons.

1. Can you possibly have a post with capitalization and paragraphs?

2. Both Dom Capers and Tom Coughlin have been to championship games. The Jaguars did it twice (under Coughlin), actually. It wouldn't be a stretch for them to get over the hump.

3. Why is it that so many people hate Coughlin? He has been a winner everywhere he has gone.

infantrycak 12-09-2004 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bckey
You're simply not being realistic if you think the Texans have improved offensively. They look like an unorganized circus on the field at times. The only player on offense that has shown improvement is A. Johnson.

No you are simply bashing because you are disappointed. They looked like an unorganized circus a lot more last year.

Let's compare (1st number 2003, 2nd number 2004):
1st down's per game: 14.8 v. 19.3
3rd down %: 31% v. 39%
Total offense per game: 269 ypg v. 331 ypg
Plays per game: 56 ppg v. 63 ppg
Passing per game: 165 ypg v. 225 ypg
Time of poss: 27:39 v. 29:38
TD's per game: 1.8 v. 2.25
Yards rushing per game: 103 ypg v. 106 ypg

And Carr while not having a break out year has definitely improved:
Passing %: 56.6% (52.5% in 2002) v. 61.3%
Yards per attempt: 6.8 ypa (5.8 in 2002) v. 7.8 ypa
QB rating: 69.5 (62.8 in 2002) v. 84.1
Passes over 20 yards: 27 (36 in 2002) v. 48--yes for all you they don't throw down fielders, that is an average of 4 20+ yard completions, not attempts, per game this year.

And here are two big ones:
Punts per game: 6 v. 4
Points per game: 15.9 v. 19.7

Now folks can argue that they haven't seen as much improvement as they want, but the offense has definitely improved. Everyone wants to say the 2003 team was better --someone honestly say they would have ever seen the 2003 team come back from 21 pts in a shoot out with MN to tie the game or come back from 21-3 at halftime to win a game against anyone 31-21.

BigWig 12-09-2004 10:37 AM

I usually dont get involved in this kinda thing, but here is my humble opinion.
I say have Dom coach the defense, fire Fangio and then hire a new head coach and keep Palmer to see if he can get the offense going while utilisng a 4 wideout scheme like he likes and has used in the past. Go ahead hit me!

Texas_Heat 12-09-2004 10:40 AM

The Texans have scored only 78 pts in their last five games that's a APG of 15.6 and take away the 31 againt the titans it's only 11.75.

I don't care if they get 400 yards a game if they still can't score it's not improvement.

dalemurphy 12-09-2004 10:44 AM

If there is one coach that does deserve some second-guessing and question on this staff, I'd say it is the OLine coach and not Palmer. Not to say that he should be fired but those in the know should be evaluating what he's doing with that group. 3/5 of that line are moderately to somewhat expensively payed free agents who are all in or near the prime of their careers. The other two are young, talented men who have shown no signs of being uncoachable... The run blocking is worse than last year and the pass blocking is about the same. Whether it's another year under the same system or another year of continuity that's needed, I don't know. However, until the OLine starts playing better, the offense isn't going to be among the better ones in the league- regardless of the skill position talent or the playcalling by Palmer.

SESupergenius 12-09-2004 10:55 AM

I like the 4 wideout thing, NE run is consistantly. We've been really simple lately. When we don't spread it around, we ge stomped. AJ can catch 20 balls in a game but if no one else is contributing he'll be one lonely guy. Consistantly over the last few games there have been only 1 or 2 contributors on offense. If we have success it's only with one guy. One wee AJ pads his numbers, then another week, we dink and doink to Davis all day. Where the heck is Bradford, Miller and Gaffney lately? Can we try motioning once for God's sake???

Wolf 12-09-2004 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas_Heat
The Texans have scored only 78 pts in their last five games that's a APG of 15.6 and take away the 31 againt the titans it's only 11.75.

I don't care if they get 400 yards a game if they still can't score it's not improvement.


kinda nitpicking isn't it? I am sure if we went back to 2003 or 2002 and took away a stretch of 5 games our numbers would look lower.

Heck if I take away the games you stated .. we would have Wells starting instead of DD.

but your last statement is correct. we can't score.. our redzone offense is horrible. now is that because we either don't have enough weapons or not using the weapons that we have (i.e. TE) and the dump down passed to DD doesn't work on a shortened field.. Run blocking inconsistant down their also

infantrycak 12-09-2004 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas_Heat
The Texans have scored only 78 pts in their last five games that's a APG of 15.6 and take away the 31 againt the titans it's only 11.75.

Yeah and if you took away the longest run from each game of Barry Sanders' career he would have averaged 2.5 ypc--so what? Those bad games are in the averages above--that is the point of an average. The averages for the prior 7 games would be tremendously higher if you took out the last 5 games. Have they regressed in the last 5 games, yup--but the statement that they haven't improved this year involves the whole season, not just the last 5 games.

TheOgre 12-09-2004 11:21 AM

Can we start firing fans?

"I don't like your attitude as a fan. You're fired!!"

bckey 12-09-2004 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOgre
Can we start firing fans?

"I don't like your attitude as a fan. You're fired!!"


LOL! There wouldn't be anyone left on this board.

CrumplerFan 12-09-2004 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HJam72
I think we'll know a lot more in about a week and half. If they beat Chicago, they'll look a lot more like a team that is improving. I don't have to tell anyone how much better they'll look if they actually manage to beat Indy.

I find it a little strange that Cowboys fans are talking about how great the Cowboys are doing after that win in Seattle and some of them are talking possible playoffs (NFC--go figure), while we're so upset with the Texans for getting stomped several times. Both teams have the same record. I understand the difference, but it's a little weird.

I think, that some Cowboys are amazed by Julius Jones and are dreaming now about the possbilities of what could have happend, if he would have been healthy...

Just Dreams.

Wolf 12-09-2004 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrumplerFan
I think, that some Cowboys are amazed by Julius Jones and are dreaming now about the possbilities of what could have happend, if he would have been healthy...

Just Dreams.

I don't know what happened to the "D" in alllas but they aren't going anywhere. they gave up 500 yards to Seattle. eventhough they won, but that offense isn't good enough to consistantly put up that many points


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