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TexansNFL 12-07-2004 09:21 PM

Vic Fangio's Record
 
Hi,

Source: http://www.pro-football-reference.co...mstats2004.htm

Fangio's record speaks for itself:

1. Texans Defense 2004 Ranking year to date:
The defense ranks 29th in the league so far in Total Yards/Game (365.3)
The defense ranks 20th in the league so far in Rush Yards/Game (121.3)
The defense ranks 28th in Pass Yards/Game (243.9).
At the bottom in the league in allowing third down conversions

2. Texans Defense 2003 Ranking
The Texans defense ranked 31st in the league last year. They were equally inept in pass defense (31st) as they were in stopping the run (31st).

3. Texans Defense 2002 Ranking
The Texans defense ranked 31st in the league last year. They were ranked 9th in pass defense and they were ranked 28th in run defense. Texans D ranked 20th in points allowed

4. The 2001 Colts Defense was one of the worst in the league by several measures...see the articles in the link below for more information

http://specials.tribstar.com/ColtsSe...January9A.html
http://www.allsports.com/cgi-bin/sho...story_id=26303

texansfan88 12-07-2004 09:25 PM

Some people are funny...but not really...it's a stupid kind of funny

If you fire Fangio...who else is going to come be the d-co?

No...really...Romeo Crennell isn't an option. Neither is Charlie Weis...he coaches offense. Bill Polian maybe? No, no guys...he's a GM

aj. 12-07-2004 09:51 PM

Five defensive starters were lost for the season in 2003.

In 2002, the Texans defense ranked 9th in the league in yards allowed and 4th in the AFC in pass defense despite lining up for the second most defensive series in the NFL. The Texans also ranked 7th in the league in 3rd down defense, 8th in red zone defense, and 4th (best) in penalties.

In his first season at Indy, the Colts jumped from 29th in the league to 15th in total defense. His 2000 defense racked up 42 sacks, the most for the Colts in 11 years, and ranked 15th in points allowed.

At Carolina in '95, his defense were tied for 7th in total defense, 6th in scoring defense, 10th in rushing defense, and 5th in takeaways. In '96, Fang's defense allowed just 218 points ranking 2nd in the NFL. That unit also ranked 10th in total defense, 1st in third down defense, 1st in sacks, 2nd in first downs allowed, and 5th in takeaways. That year, the Panthers allowed just 5 TDs and 56 points in the 2nd half (all year) breaking the Bears '85 record.

Grid 12-07-2004 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aj.
Five defensive starters were lost for the season in 2003.

In 2002, the Texans defense ranked 9th in the league in yards allowed and 4th in the AFC in pass defense despite lining up for the second most defensive series in the NFL. The Texans also ranked 7th in the league in 3rd down defense, 8th in red zone defense, and 4th (best) in penalties.

In his first season at Indy, the Colts jumped from 29th in the league to 15th in total defense. His 2000 defense racked up 42 sacks, the most for the Colts in 11 years, and ranked 15th in points allowed.

At Carolina in '95, his defense were tied for 7th in total defense, 6th in scoring defense, 10th in rushing defense, and 5th in takeaways. In '96, Fang's defense allowed just 218 points ranking 2nd in the NFL. That unit also ranked 10th in total defense, 1st in third down defense, 1st in sacks, 2nd in first downs allowed, and 5th in takeaways. That year, the Panthers allowed just 5 TDs and 56 points in the 2nd half (all year) breaking the Bears '85 record.


*in his best simpsons impersonation*

hah hah

beerlover 12-08-2004 03:54 AM

I'll tell you what it fired me up a little to see the coaching staff riding the officials after they picked up the yellow flag for clipping @ NY. They showed heart (high blood pressure) excreeting bodily fluid (flem & spit) & frustration level almost as high as the fans themelves. Hey I can realte to that.

I have posted a 3-4 thread & basicly blamed the coaching staff for lack of exacution or improper use of personel. But after this latest debacle against the Jets, other than Dunta there seems to be a serious lack of team speed. And as much as coaches scream & spit its not going to make the players suddenly faster. The players up front have to be huge, powerfull men in a 3-4, the olb also have to be bigger in the 3-4. Just exactly where is our speed going to come from in the 3-4 besides these positions? Seems to me we need either a bigger physcial corner that can pass rush, a stud saftey & playmaking MLB to help their counterparts be more effective in containement.

p-money 12-08-2004 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexansNFL
Hi,

Source: http://www.pro-football-reference.co...mstats2004.htm

Fangio's record speaks for itself:

1. Texans Defense 2004 Ranking year to date:
The defense ranks 29th in the league so far in Total Yards/Game (365.3)
The defense ranks 20th in the league so far in Rush Yards/Game (121.3)
The defense ranks 28th in Pass Yards/Game (243.9).
At the bottom in the league in allowing third down conversions

2. Texans Defense 2003 Ranking
The Texans defense ranked 31st in the league last year. They were equally inept in pass defense (31st) as they were in stopping the run (31st).

3. Texans Defense 2002 Ranking
The Texans defense ranked 31st in the league last year. They were ranked 9th in pass defense and they were ranked 28th in run defense. Texans D ranked 20th in points allowed

4. The 2001 Colts Defense was one of the worst in the league by several measures...see the articles in the link below for more information

http://specials.tribstar.com/ColtsSe...January9A.html
http://www.allsports.com/cgi-bin/sho...story_id=26303

interesting statistics, should get much better for you when the colts come calling sunday.

txhoosier 12-08-2004 07:45 AM

I will offer this from an Indy perspective...

Fangio's defensive schemes were criticized by management and others (not too many players, though) for being TOO complicated to understand. Too many times, players were missing assignments and getting toasted.

BB's defense in New England is often referred to as the most complicated, but that is from the perspective of the offenses playing against them. It's actually a defense that his players understand well. Fangio's D scheme is difficult to play. It's also a downside for the Texans, b/c Manning knows what it looks like after practicing against it for so many years.

Jim Mora would possibly still be the head coach in Indy if he had fired Fangio, but he wouldn't, so he's now gone, too. I was sad to see the T's pick up Fangio, because I was worried about how a young team would pick up his D.

Man, I did all that talking just to say that firing Fangio won't solve all your problems, but there is more than one problem to solve, so it's a step in the right direction...

TheOgre 12-08-2004 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beerlover
excreeting bodily fluid (flem & spit)

I'm glad you clarified that statement. Otherwise, that left a lot to the imagination.

Cincinnatikid 12-08-2004 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beerlover
I'll tell you what it fired me up a little to see the coaching staff riding the officials after they picked up the yellow flag for clipping @ NY. They showed heart (high blood pressure) excreeting bodily fluid (flem & spit) & frustration level almost as high as the fans themelves. Hey I can realte to that.

I have posted a 3-4 thread & basicly blamed the coaching staff for lack of exacution or improper use of personel. But after this latest debacle against the Jets, other than Dunta there seems to be a serious lack of team speed. And as much as coaches scream & spit its not going to make the players suddenly faster. The players up front have to be huge, powerfull men in a 3-4, the olb also have to be bigger in the 3-4. Just exactly where is our speed going to come from in the 3-4 besides these positions? Seems to me we need either a bigger physcial corner that can pass rush, a stud saftey & playmaking MLB to help their counterparts be more effective in containement.

Well one thing i can tell you is that there is some speed on this team. You got Dunta on the corner, who has been pretty successful in covering and in blitzing from the corner. You got a new rookie safety that is quick. Maybe Glenn and Sharper are getting up there but they are not slow. Then you got your OLBs that are young, Babin and Peek. Peek can run a 4.5 or sub 4.5 in the 40, Babin is around a 4.5. Thats not bad for 250 pound men. Maybe the Dline is a bit slow but they are all DTs. And how big do you want your OLBs to be? They have to drop into coverage remember. Joey Porter in Pitt is 6-3 250, is he too small to be good? The speed may be true of our second ILB, Foreman or Polk, but overall this team is not extremely slow. They may not be as fast as some teams, but when a few more of the older veterans are replaced this team will be fine in terms of speed. The team needs to stop dropping into zone every play, and actually run a few blitzes, then you would see a different team.

bckey 12-08-2004 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by txhoosier
I will offer this from an Indy perspective...

Fangio's defensive schemes were criticized by management and others (not too many players, though) for being TOO complicated to understand. Too many times, players were missing assignments and getting toasted.

BB's defense in New England is often referred to as the most complicated, but that is from the perspective of the offenses playing against them. It's actually a defense that his players understand well. Fangio's D scheme is difficult to play. It's also a downside for the Texans, b/c Manning knows what it looks like after practicing against it for so many years.

Jim Mora would possibly still be the head coach in Indy if he had fired Fangio, but he wouldn't, so he's now gone, too. I was sad to see the T's pick up Fangio, because I was worried about how a young team would pick up his D.

Man, I did all that talking just to say that firing Fangio won't solve all your problems, but there is more than one problem to solve, so it's a step in the right direction...


Capers will eventually go down for the same reason. Either not getting rid of Palmer, Fangio, or both.

ArlingtonTexan 12-08-2004 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cincinnatikid
Well one thing i can tell you is that there is some speed on this team. You got Dunta on the corner, who has been pretty successful in covering and in blitzing from the corner. You got a new rookie safety that is quick. Maybe Glenn and Sharper are getting up there but they are not slow. Then you got your OLBs that are young, Babin and Peek. Peek can run a 4.5 or sub 4.5 in the 40, Babin is around a 4.5. Thats not bad for 250 pound men. Maybe the Dline is a bit slow but they are all DTs. And how big do you want your OLBs to be? They have to drop into coverage remember. Joey Porter in Pitt is 6-3 250, is he too small to be good? The speed may be true of our second ILB, Foreman or Polk, but overall this team is not extremely slow. They may not be as fast as some teams, but when a few more of the older veterans are replaced this team will be fine in terms of speed. The team needs to stop dropping into zone every play, and actually run a few blitzes, then you would see a different team.

I am with Beerlover on the pure speed/quickness of this unit. I am not sure how fast peek is in regards to simialr players around the league, but one the reason that he looks so fast on the Texans is because he is the only player in the front seven mix where speed is his primarily asset. The unit always seems to be a half a step away from making the play. i hope that the texans management does not feel that you can't have a DLman with some quickness in the 3-4 even as situational guy. One reason that you may not see the ton of blitzing is the speed/quickness factor overall. team that blitz a ton are usually quicker teams. Often zones are an attempt to hide a deficency in speed/quickness.

Cincinnatikid 12-08-2004 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan
I am with Beerlover on the pure speed/quickness of this unit. I am not sure how fast peek is in regards to simialr players around the league, but one the reason that he looks so fast on the Texans is because he is the only player in the front seven mix where speed is his primarily asset. The unit always seems to be a half a step away from making the play. i hope that the texans management does not feel that you can't have a DLman with some quickness in the 3-4 even as situational guy. One reason that you may not see the ton of blitzing is the speed/quickness factor overall. team that blitz a ton are usually quicker teams. Often zones are an attempt to hide a deficency in speed/quickness.

That is a good point about hiding the slowness of our Dline. However, Peek is fast, have you watched him on kick coverages. Also, it would be great to get a fast MLB, one that can fly around making plays like Ray Lewis or even Zach Thomas. I think this team has speed but they do not use it. How often do we use the corner back blitz, maybe once a game. I think this team has more talent than people think, because they have not been using it very well. Do we ever see a safety blitz? There are a lot of things this team could do if they would at least try mixing it up.

TheOgre 12-08-2004 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cincinnatikid
Also, it would be great to get a fast MLB, one that can fly around making plays like Ray Lewis or even Zach Thomas.

Also, I think we should move Wong inside and put Peek on the outside. Lets see what those 4 (Babin and Sharper too) can do the rest of the year. I realize Peek can be a liability out there but the guy needs to learn with experience. We are all but out of the playoff race, so we need to start to evaluate the talent we have.

We need to improve our front 7 by whatever reasonable means possible. Until we do that, our secondary will be lit up and our offense will be forced to win games.

Wolf 12-08-2004 11:16 AM

I'd like to see it too and someone made a point that made me change my mind about Peek not playing.. They said something along the lines of "people are talking about Peek not being able to play the run,well we aren't stopping anyone anyway,so let him out there and give the offense something to think about with his pass rush whether he is rushing or not" something to that effect

Cincinnatikid 12-08-2004 11:28 AM

I think that he has improved his run stopping also. He is def. no more of a liability out there than anyone else. I might also add that his pass defense has improved. I believe that Babin gave up two TD last week by blown coverage, once on the RB and once on the TE. I dont think there is anything worse that Peek could do. And if everyone continues to say that he will start next season, then give the guy some reps to get ready. Looking at his numbers, if you divide his total plays (90), by his stats of 13 tackles, 2 sacks and an INT, and you figure the defense plays about 60 plays a game, he would have about 5 tackles a game, almost a sack a game, an interception everyother game (not necessarily accurate), and multiple QB hurries and knockdowns. Sounds productive, and why waste it.

Grid 12-08-2004 12:34 PM

While I am definatly not against getting peek in there for the rest of the games this season. Get him some more reps and let him get some experience going into the offseason.

I just want to point out that by putting in someone who isnt very good at stopping the run, or hasnt shown that he is.. you are creating a mismatch for the other team. I mean.. we could throw Faggins in as an OLB and argue that he wouldnt be ANY WORSE against the run.. but the opposing teams would see him in there and be salavating at the chance to run to his side.

TexansNFL 12-09-2004 10:31 AM

If indeed Fangio's defense is too complicated to understand, then I would love to have a D coordinator that keeps things simple and chooses plays that maximizes his player's potential and puts them in a position to succeed

TexansTrueFan 12-09-2004 12:17 PM

i'm with Cincikid on this one, it seems we do have a lot of speed on defense, its just size we lack. And peek does have a good burst off the outside, like on that sack where mcnair fumbled he was blocked really well and had to come back to even get him !

Cincinnatikid 12-09-2004 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexansTrueFan
i'm with Cincikid on this one, it seems we do have a lot of speed on defense, its just size we lack. And peek does have a good burst off the outside, like on that sack where mcnair fumbled he was blocked really well and had to come back to even get him !

I think the only size that we are really lacking is maybe a big Ted Washington like nose tackle. The linebackers are not that small, besides they cant be too big because then they couldnt go out to pass cover. They could use a big DB or Saftey who could scare guys from coming over the middle, such as Roy Williams down in Dallas. I think if you mix in Peek to get the speed up, move Wong to the middle, thats a lot more speed out there. Then you add another DB into the mix with a big NT and this Defense is a bit scary. You would have to run stopping up front, speed across the middle and good secondary coverage. The base is already on this team, they just need to use what they have and add to it.


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