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-   -   Was it Carr or the receivers that played bad? (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4853)

Marcus 12-05-2004 04:42 PM

Was it Carr or the receivers that played bad?
 
I noticed that a lot of you are punkin Carr for his play today.

Well, in the game that I watched, I couldn't tell if was Carr or the receivers that deserved more of the "blame", if that is something that you want to lay on somebody.

I agree Carr didn't have one of his better games, but before you want to throw Carr into the trash, and start searching for QBs in the draft, (:rofl:) go back and see how many times Carr stood in the pocket waiting for Gaffney, Armstrong, Miller, and Bradford to get open, or at least run their correct routes while AJ is being doubled up.

Lucky 12-05-2004 05:04 PM

The receivers were smothered by the Jets coverage. Everywhere they went, a Jet was waiting, lurking. So I'll ask yet a 3rd question; why do the opposing defenses always know what routes the Texan receivers are running?

Marcus 12-05-2004 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky
The receivers were smothered by the Jets coverage. Everywhere they went, a Jet was waiting, lurking. So I'll ask yet a 3rd question; why do the opposing defenses always know what routes the Texan receivers are running?

That's a fair question.

Something else needs mentioning. A common complaint by some of you is that Carr dumps it off to DD too much, and doesn't throw it enough to the receivers. Trying to force it into coverage will more than likely get you accused of "not playing well".

Just how "good" are our receivers? I wonder.

Vinny 12-05-2004 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky
The receivers were smothered by the Jets coverage. Everywhere they went, a Jet was waiting, lurking. So I'll ask yet a 3rd question; why do the opposing defenses always know what routes the Texan receivers are running?

How can you tell that if you weren't there? Didn't I just watch the same game? They didn't exactly show us the secondary. Andre Ware was stating that Carr missed open WR's. Was he just joking?

LiveForTheGame 12-05-2004 05:21 PM

The whole offense just wasn't working. The Jets are a good team and just beat us today offensively and defensively. However, our guys didn't exactly play well today. Except for Dunta and AJ.

aj. 12-05-2004 05:22 PM

Just curious. Why can't you put mods/admin on ignore?

Vinny 12-05-2004 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aj.
Just curious. Why can't you put mods/admin on ignore?

Must be a default setting. I'll hook you up later when I adjust the settings.

LiveForTheGame 12-05-2004 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottle-O-Bud
Anyways this was not even Palmer, Carr or Caper's fault. The momentum just switched to fast for a young team to handle.

I agree with that. It's going ot be this way for the pains and struggles of a young team.

Txnpride 12-05-2004 05:29 PM

Carr doesnt play defense.....neither does our defense LOL.The Jets havent played anyone worth a d#@%,(soft sched).they will fall in the first round....our Defense needs ALOT of work in the off-season. Hope they can fix it!!!

Lucky 12-05-2004 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny
How can you tell that if you weren't there? Didn't I just watch the same game? They didn't exactly show us the secondary. Andre Ware was stating that Carr missed open WR's. Was he just joking?

Did Ware say that Carr missed an open receiver on every play? How many times exactly? I don't think that Texan receivers would be running free on every play and Carr would pick out the only guy who was covered. If so, we've got a conspiracy theory here.

It's not just this game. The big passing plays in the Titan game were from Carr buying time on the rollout and the receivers breaking off their routes. Not from the original routes. The Pack were all over the routes. Ditto the Broncos. Don't know about the Colts, because it was a fire drill in the backfield. Don't you even think it's a remote possibility that the Texans are either tipping their plays or the play design against the Cover 2 isn't working?

Vinny 12-05-2004 05:43 PM

All I know is that guys like Billy Volek will toss 3 TD's on the Colts porus secondary but when we play them it's like Chinese arithmetic. Last year when I went to games Carr wasn't seeing open WR's and locked on to his first read way too much and I was really not impressed with his vision but I haven't been able to get to live games much this year. I just assume that it is more of the same.

utahmark 12-05-2004 05:47 PM

carr did not play well today but that is not usually the case. i dont think he (or any of the offense) has played well against that type of defense yet.

davis looked pretty good in the open field, would like to see that more often. i think he can still be our featured back.

Wolf 12-05-2004 05:48 PM

exactly. Seems that Carr locks in on a player of the game.. It runs in cycles... DD gets the bulk ..then AJ ... we just don't spread it out enough to open stuff up.
Even when we win we seem to make it easy on the defense because we cut the field in half for them (AJ's side and DD side)

Bradford/Gaffney has disappeared in this offense it seems.. I haven't looked at stats,so I might be proved wrong

blockhead83 12-05-2004 06:02 PM

I think both the receivers and Carr had off-days. Some games it just seems like Carr is off...most of them are away games from my observance. It did look like there was miscommunication several times, but Carr's receivers (namely AJ) looked like they were performing with competence when the ball came their way. Carr's throw's were simply off, IMO, he threw too high, too low, or not far enough. He underthrew AJ on a possible touchdown (which resulted in a dropped pass), he horribly underthrew AJ again later by maybe 5-10 yards which AJ came back and made a play on, and he overthrew B. Miller on his second interception. You'd be very hard pressed to present evidence that Carr was an accurate passer today, whether his receivers were in the correct position or not. He has no excuse today, he had above average protection against an excellent Jets pass rush, and he couldn't make plays regardless of the time we gave him. That's not to say Carr is a bad QB, he's a very good developing quarter back. He just happened to play poorly today.

blockhead83 12-05-2004 06:05 PM

Gaffney has made the most out of his opportunities this year, he has 30+ receptions and close to 500 yards. He's quietly having his best season ever, while Bradford has seemingly lost the big play ability he's supposed to represent in our offense.

thegr8fan 12-05-2004 06:14 PM

Carr. there is your answer. And blockhead explained it best. Carr was off and making very bad choices today. SOMETIMES AJ bailed him out with a spectacular catch. Most times it was simply a bad throw into double and sometimes TRIPLE (Miller int. was triple covered) coverage. The one where Carr threw his last INT was over Miller's head and was the SECOND pass in the middle of the field against TRIPLE coverage.

quite simply, CARR stank it up today bigtime.

3 years is more than enough time to show some consistant improvement. Carr hasn't, IMHO. Draft a new QB and lets get started on the next 3 years of development of our next QB.

supertankman 12-05-2004 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegr8fan
Carr. there is your answer. And blockhead explained it best. Carr was off and making very bad choices today. SOMETIMES AJ bailed him out with a spectacular catch. Most times it was simply a bad throw into double and sometimes TRIPLE (Miller int. was triple covered) coverage. The one where Carr threw his last INT was over Miller's head and was the SECOND pass in the middle of the field against TRIPLE coverage.

quite simply, CARR stank it up today bigtime.

3 years is more than enough time to show some consistant improvement. Carr hasn't, IMHO. Draft a new QB and lets get started on the next 3 years of development of our next QB.


Are you kidding, do you think the packers are saying that about Brett Farve right now, they are getting blown out worse then us by the Eagles. Carr didnt have the time to find open recievers and when he did, there was a flag on the play. As i predicted, the Texans will end up being 7-9 and will make the playoffs next year.

Lucky 12-05-2004 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegr8fan
3 years is more than enough time to show some consistant improvement. Carr hasn't, IMHO. Draft a new QB and lets get started on the next 3 years of development of our next QB.

Why didn't you come to this realization last week? You know, when Carr led the Texans to a comeback from an 18 point deficit.

What has Carr done for me lately? The microwave society rears its ugly head once again.

thegr8fan 12-05-2004 06:40 PM

Up until this game here I have given Carr plenty of opportunity to impress me. I give up after this game. Carr won't improve, IMHO, and it is time to bring in someone who will for the future. Cause, quite simply, Carr ain't got what it takes to make it in the NFL.

Carr had plenty of time, if he would have stepped into the pocket formed by the O-line. Instead he gets 'antsy' runs to his right (like he does EVERY time he scrambles), sometimes right into the defender who is being pushed that way to make a POCKET for Carr, and he immediately starts looking for a TE or DD to pass it to. The receivers become a non-factor as soon as Carr starts to run.

This is far easier to see in person at the games actually. I have seen many times when just as a receiver is getting open, usually by running the correct, but long, route that Carr chooses that time to start scrambling. And I would hazard a guess that 50% of those scrambles were NOT necessary but Carr getting 'antsy'.

Carr is simply not comfortable staying in the pocket and letting the play develop. He likes to scramble. Not necessarily a bad thing in and unto itself. But when he does it un-necessarily and the result is the downfield receivers are totally ignored then it does reflect in a poor pass or missed opportunity while Carr dumps the pass to either DD or our TE.

glad to see DD is getting back into his previous outstanding RB form, and AJ doesn't even need to be mentioned as one of the NFL's premier WR. So with a RB and WR combo like that we can't score a TD in an entire half of the game. Seems to me that the only position that needs upgrading to match the rest is the QB.

Lucky 12-05-2004 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegr8fan
Up until this game here I have given Carr plenty of opportunity to impress me. I give up after this game...

That's convienent.

OK, let's get rid of Carr. But Casserly & Capers have to go, too. They're the ones who put their reputations and jobs on the line by making Carr the Texans franchise QB. If Carr's a bust (as you say), it's C & C who let it happen. If it's as bad as you say, blow the whole team up...from the scouting department on up. Or pop the top on another one and wait for next weeks game.


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