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-   -   Negativity (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3438)

dalemurphy 10-12-2004 11:50 AM

Negativity
 
I certainly understand talking about the team's weaknesses and even venting frustrations with things go awry. However, remember, that the team is on a 4 year plan and it is next year that this team is being built to compete for a championship. The team is vastly improved. However, we have a lot of new and inexperienced parts still learning the game, the system, and each other:

on offense: Wade, Wand, Pitts at guard, Bruener
on defense: Babin, Robinson, Smith, Coleman at FS...

barring injury, this team will continue to improve this year. At the least, there are a lot of things to get excited about and it's been 3 hours + of good entertainment every week (except maybe the first half of Detroit)

things to be encouraged by: David Carr, Andre Johnson, Gaffney, DArmstrong, Seth Wand, OL has shown glimpses (Oakland), Babin, Robinson, AGlenn, Faggins, Glenn Earl, potential of the DL.

Most people were anticipating 7 or 8 wins this season. It looks to me like this team is going to get there, at least.

noxiousdog 10-12-2004 11:56 AM

I, for one, am glad we have so many experts. Obviously, with their knowledge the must be highly paid football consultants.

I am surprised, however, that they all hang out here. Surely with the vast number of them they can't all work for the Texans.

Maybe they are with local high schools and colleges, though my bet is they just work with their kid's pee wee team.

Hervoyel 10-12-2004 12:02 PM

People get negative at times. I know I do sometimes. My biggest complaints of the year so far were in the first two weeks (predictably enough) and they centered around the mistakes being made. Over the past two years I'd become used to seeing the team start the season "ready to play". They might not have been as good as the teams they faced but they were usually more focused and better prepared I thought. This year they didn't start out like that at all and it got me down to see them coughing up the fumbles and collecting flags left and right. There were higher expectations going into this season and the Texans came out flatter than they had ever started.

Thankfully that seems to have gotten back on track a little bit. The Texans loss to the Vikings isn't a disaster or anything. A win might have provided some serious momentum going into Tennessee but the way they came back from their bad first half wasn't bad at all. They're growing up this year and the 2002/2003 teams wouldn't have been able to push that game into overtime. They weren't good enough to overcome their own mistakes. This team is a lot closer to being good enough than that. Remember last year how the Patriots made tons of mistakes playing the Texans and yet still were good enough to pull it out in the end? Well that's where we're headed.

They'll get their .500 or so record this year. I still stand by my prediction that they'll win the majority of those games in the second half of the season. The first half of the year they'll be lucky to finish with one more win but over the second half they'll make a little run at a wild card. There are too many good teams though for them to get it this season but we're going to be at least mathematically in it until somewhere around the 11th to 13th week and that's pretty good.

geka 10-12-2004 12:04 PM

Quote:

I certainly understand talking about the team's weaknesses and even venting frustrations with things go awry.
Sure the players will improve, no doubt.

We will draft new players to contribute, no doubt.

We hae some very promising future probowlers, no doubt.

But can coaches learn to coach in 1 year? I dont think so atleast our staff cant

Some coaches have changed to fit there team and there talent but we have not we try to mold our talent to the coaches and it dont work like that.

Look at Baltimore thats not a defensive head coach but he became one because that was the talent he had. Capers should become a offensive deep ball passing head coach because thats the talent we have, but he wont and thats why we need a new head coach.

RC4TEXANS 10-12-2004 12:06 PM

Wrong
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by noxiousdog
I, for one, am glad we have so many experts. Obviously, with their knowledge the must be highly paid football consultants.

I am surprised, however, that they all hang out here. Surely with the vast number of them they can't all work for the Texans.

Maybe they are with local high schools and colleges, though my bet is they just work with their kid's pee wee team.

I wont let my kid play for them

Vinny 10-12-2004 12:30 PM

I've been "talking football" with my friends since I was in grade school. That's living and dying with my favorite team, talking about their strengths and picking apart their weakness in parts of 4 decades. A little venting or some exchanges on the worth of a player, the gameplan or a system/scheme is all a part of being a fan. This is what this board is for and I hope that people will continue to come here and discuss their thoughts on the team. Good or bad, positive or negative....just back up your take with some facts and stand behind your views.

A billion "yay team" posts makes a miserable football forum.

TheOgre 10-12-2004 12:40 PM

I really don't know why you would come here if you didn't want to talk both positively and negatively about the Texans, unless you are a fan of another team. This is a place to get excited, vent, and state your opinions. In doing so you also open yourself to counterpoints/criticism. That is the nature of most messageboards I have visited. This isn't one big pep rally board.

Double Barrel 10-12-2004 12:41 PM

I agree...it is a fine line between constructive criticism and outright team bashing.

Personally, I do believe this season will be a "success" if we win more than we did last year (yep, 6-10 would still be an improvement).

There are some things to work on, for sure, but we can't let ourselves fall into that negative void of always griping when things don't go our way. We must remain optimistic about our team's future - hope for the best and prepare for the worst!

Diehardtexan 10-12-2004 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny
I've been "talking football" with my friends since I was in grade school. That's living and dying with my favorite team, talking about their strengths and picking apart their weakness in parts of 4 decades. A little venting or some exchanges on the worth of a player, the gameplan or a system/scheme is all a part of being a fan. This is what this board is for and I hope that people will continue to come here and discuss their thoughts on the team. Good or bad, positive or negative....just back up your take with some facts and stand behind your views.

A billion "yay team" posts makes a miserable football forum.

We have to have some expectations out of the players and coaches, as Vinny said this what this board is for. This team didn't perform up to the talents they have...yes we have people here that flip flop more than fish out of the water or Bill Clinton on draft and sex issues. When we win they say we are the best team in the league and when we lose then the fire coaches posts starts to pop up. This team could have easily been 5-0 or 0-5. I think the players are confused by the play calling as much as we have been from day one. I really don't like the way the coaches when they play not to lose instead of lets blow this team out of this world kinda of mentality. It's like playing prevent defense.

texan279 10-12-2004 12:54 PM

If you think people are negative here, go visit the tacks MB sometime. That MB has been total chaos the last few weeks. A lot of the fans jumped off the wagon, but after last night a few jumped back on, but it is still quieter than I have ever seen it over there.

OzzO 10-13-2004 08:32 AM

4 year plan?!? I thought it was 5 year plan?!? :yap Even better then!!!!

At the beginning of the year I think a majority were shooting for the 7 to 9 win range (with a few extremists noting Super Bowl). I beleive we'll still get to that point and show the improvement that people were wanting as well.

Give the TEXANS this year to really work on the 3-4 defense and zone blocking and we'll get there soon enough. The pieces are coming together boys and girls, just gotta have a little patience and be thankful Bud is still not around to jack the system. :thumbup

Till then - it's open season for the "experts" to put in their two, sometimes three cents and I appreciate all viewpoints.

JustBonee 10-13-2004 09:27 AM

Constructive criticism is not bashing or being negative.
Actually, it's pretty much the opposite.

infantrycak 10-13-2004 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottle-O-Bud
I have never seen a team hold back against the Texans. Everybody we played wanted to smash our brains in and blow us out. Here is our coaches wishing we could just hang around while the other team is trying desperately to smash our brain in. I find that quite funny.

That simply isn't true. Running teams that have played the Texans have remained running teams, they didn't become aggressive passing teams unless we got a lead, short passing teams have remained short passing teams, not become downfield passing teams unless we got the lead--sound familiar? The difference is that when the Texans try ball control and move down the field 5-15 yds at a time (and lose the game--doesn't happen near as much after wins) it is overly conservative offense and not attacking and when a team picks us apart it is efficient ball control and solid football.

Teams actually have been able to play very conservatively against the Texans until this year because our O has been so lacking. League average for pass/run ratio is around 53-54% pass and 46-47% run.

Pass/run ratios for the Texans' opposing offenses to date:

2002 50/50
2003 48.5/51.5
2004 55/45

rhc564 10-13-2004 10:14 AM

...some very good posts here about what a 'message board is all about
and good posts about the philosophy of our team---
when do we "coach" to win----at what point has the team satisfied
all the reasons it's ok to lose--suddenly at the start of the 4th or 5th year
...don't think so! True, you may not win right out of the gate but you've
got to start trying at some point to win, the earlier the better simply because
of the intangibles involved....but. to those that think you can hold this team
back by coaching 'not to lose' and then-all of a sudden-win in the 5th year,
are in for a rude awakening! This team can win now- no, not all of its games-
with a 'tweaking' of our Coaching Philosophy, IMO. :headbang:

dalemurphy 10-13-2004 10:27 AM

way too much is being made out of the statement by Capers', "hang around til the 4th quarter".

It's just coachspeak. Capers' isn't a brash, arrogant coach who will denegrate another team before or after they play them. So, when he's asked a question about the team they're going to play, he's going to say something respectful.

I was at the Raider game. Let me tell you, when the Texans had the game in hand and a first down in the fourth quarter at their own 1 yard line, they did not play safe or conservative. Instead, I believe Carr completed 4 passes to his WR on the way to an game-icing field goal. As this team develops and learns to win, it will develop a killer instinct and an attitude to go with it. I sure remember the Panthers in 1996, and that team certainly had an attitude of a championship team.

WWJD 10-13-2004 10:33 AM

While the Texans are a team and people are proud of their home team they are also a PRODUCT. People pay to see them perform. These are professionals. It's only natural that if/when something they do is wrong or doesn't work that people will complain. It doesn't mean you don't care or like them as much as ever. It just means you see things wrong and care enough to point it out. We're all armchair QB's. It's just the nature of sports.

Titanico 10-13-2004 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texan279
If you think people are negative here, go visit the tacks MB sometime. That MB has been total chaos the last few weeks. A lot of the fans jumped off the wagon, but after last night a few jumped back on, but it is still quieter than I have ever seen it over there.

Some of them are just venting their frustrations, some of them give a very good approach of the things happening, some others want to see the Titans undefeated and going strong.

Is just all part of the learning process, but I asure you that all Titans fans are very enthusiastic, and some times that enthusiasm drops in the way side. Most of us at the T.O.M.B. , are fans from a team that has gave us great satisfactions, and that drop of bad luck kept us away from tieing the first SB in history, as it happened last year at NE frozen fridge they have as a stadium.

The great victory agianst GB, calmed our seas down, and it was right on time.

nunusguy 10-13-2004 10:07 PM

The Capers comment ""hang around til the 4th quarter", I'm confidant, was his
language for us playing well enough throughout the game to be in a position at the end of the game to have a chance to win it. I mean lets face it, we are a long ways from being good enough to run up the score on someone and just coast to victory in the final quarter. Carr kneeling down on the last series of the Raiders game to run the clock out for the win was a rare experience for us.

Jwwillis 10-14-2004 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SassyTexan
Constructive criticism is not bashing or being negative.
Actually, it's pretty much the opposite.


Quote:

Originally Posted by geka

But can coaches learn to coach in 1 year? I dont think so atleast our staff cant

Some coaches have changed to fit there team and there talent but we have not we try to mold our talent to the coaches and it dont work like that.

Look at Baltimore thats not a defensive head coach but he became one because that was the talent he had. Capers should become a offensive deep ball passing head coach because thats the talent we have, but he wont and thats why we need a new head coach.


Typically I would agree but then....

dalemurphy 10-15-2004 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geka
Sure the players will improve, no doubt.

We will draft new players to contribute, no doubt.

We hae some very promising future probowlers, no doubt.

But can coaches learn to coach in 1 year? I dont think so atleast our staff cant

Some coaches have changed to fit there team and there talent but we have not we try to mold our talent to the coaches and it dont work like that.

Look at Baltimore thats not a defensive head coach but he became one because that was the talent he had. Capers should become a offensive deep ball passing head coach because thats the talent we have, but he wont and thats why we need a new head coach.

New coach!... come on! Ever heard of Bum Phillips. It's the same kind of knee-jerk reaction and impatience that got Bum fired and sent the Oilers spiraling down for 10 years.


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