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-   -   Babin (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3371)

hook'em07carter 10-10-2004 11:32 PM

Babin
 
Babin today had himself a break through game...


Anyone have thoughts on himand his performence today?

LiveForTheGame 10-10-2004 11:53 PM

The guy is definitely showing why Capers moved up and how valued he is in the Texans' mind. He has speed, quickness, and power. I am excited to see how he develops.

Grid 10-11-2004 12:01 AM

its nice to see that both of our Rookies are starting to make good contributions. lets just pray that they both continue to evolve.. and neither of them turn out to have some game breaking weakness.

Would suck if Babin became an awesome pass rusher who never learned how to cover.. or if Robinson continued to get fooled by WRs.

but at this point.. both are looking like they are gonna be cornerstones of our defense in the future. I cant wait to see what we pick up in next years draft. If our next picks turn out as good as Robinson and Babin seem to be.. I can see why the 5 year plan is very possible.

beerlover 10-11-2004 12:12 AM

Babin played well but I would not consider this game his breakout game just yet. As long as he stays healthy, keeps improving his footwork and aggressiveness hopefully soon. Dunta arrived last week and continued to shine, clearly the best player the Texans have on the defensive side already. The question now is how the other picks develop over the next couple of years, you can clearly see the drop-off in talent after the 1st round which does validate the Texans trading up for Babin. :thumbup

BornOrange 10-11-2004 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beerlover
Dunta arrived last week and continued to shine, clearly the best player the Texans have on the defensive side already.

Not quite, but he's doing well.

georgewashington 10-11-2004 08:16 AM

Four tackles is not a break out game for a line backer. And if you watch his play, you would see him falling on the ground almost every play. He did have one sack, but that was beating the tight end. if you also noticed, everyone has been accussing Peek of not being able to contain plays, Babin multiple times over pursed from the left to the right or by going way too deep in the pocket allowing Dante to run right past him to make plays, and even their running backs. Babin has not shown any footwork or pass rushing moves to get to the QB, every play is an attempted bull rush through his blocker, and obviously that only worked on a tight end who isnt bigger than him. And say what you want about Peek but noticed when he was in, 3-10 in the 4th, and 2 and 3rd in overtime when they were not sure passing downs. and i believe in the first two plays he closed to pocket forcing cullpepper to step up into robaire smith who sacked him and the second play he also shrunk the pocket making dante get rid of it early. And it is also difficult to say Peek cant play against the run when his senior year he led his team with over 100 tackles as a defensive end.

bruenice 10-11-2004 10:25 AM

peek flat out needs more field time. babin is improving, but he also does a lot of stupid things too. i swear he ends up on the turf 40% of his snaps, which doesn't benefit at all on defense. 3 snaps on defense is not enough for a player that started 4 games last year and did rather well during those games.

JDizzle 10-11-2004 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruenice
peek flat out needs more field time. babin is improving, but he also does a lot of stupid things too. i swear he ends up on the turf 40% of his snaps, which doesn't benefit at all on defense. 3 snaps on defense is not enough for a player that started 4 games last year and did rather well during those games.

I thought Babin had a good day yesterday. I saw him bite (big time) on a bootleg, but other than that he did good. I didn't see him on the turf "40% of his snaps". He got a sack and almost popped the ball out of Culpepper's hands. There were also a couple of occasions where he blew up the RT back into the pocket. Babin had a decent day.

Did Gary Walker forget how to tackle? There were times yesterday when the D's ability to tackle was laughable, and times where Sharper and Foreman looked like headhunters. But what was Sharper doing covering Marcus Robinson on that TD in overtime? I wonder if he was supposed to be on him, or if it was a bust in coverage and he was trying to save a TD.

georgewashington 10-11-2004 10:45 AM

how could you not see him on the turf? maybe it was because his o-lineman was on top of him. and he bit bigger tahn life on the bootleg, but also on run plays where the running back cut from his left to right babin ended up on the other side of the field from where he starts? that is not contain. and when it was a crucial pass rush inthe end peek was in, and i would say that it was crucial pass rush time the whole game since they threw for like 400 yards. and have you ever noticed how much the fans like it when peek is in? seems like giving the game ball to the fans last week means that the crowd has a say in the outcome, and if peek has a say inthe crowd, you do the math.

TexaninKorea 10-11-2004 10:47 AM

HUGE props to Babin on his first great game. If Dunta would have had as big a game we would have come away with a W. But don't fret, we played as good a team as we've ever played and took them to overtime. I think this Texans team can AT LEAST make .500.

Vinny 10-11-2004 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgewashington
have you ever noticed how much the fans like it when peek is in? seems like giving the game ball to the fans last week means that the crowd has a say in the outcome, and if peek has a say inthe crowd, you do the math.

Peek has been terrible as an every down OLB. He takes bad angles and teams isolate him and expose the edge when he plays. Right now he is a situational pass rusher only.

Babin had a fine game yesterday, and sure, he will be on the ground from time to time, like everyone else. He is making our decision to move up to snag him look like a better and better move each week.

JDizzle 10-11-2004 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgewashington
and have you ever noticed how much the fans like it when peek is in? seems like giving the game ball to the fans last week means that the crowd has a say in the outcome, and if peek has a say inthe crowd, you do the math.

That is just a silly statement. Implying that the fans will only get loud when Peek is in there is absurd.

Peek gets sealed faster than a zip lock bag against the run, he's horrible at fighting off blocks to make a tackle, or even keep contain to force the runner inside to one of the LB's. Babin has 2 sacks so far, and he's played well against the run for a rook making a tough transition. Peek, on the other hand, hasn't proven much against the run in his second year.

There were times yester day when we did get pressure on Culpepper with just a 4 man rush (with Babin in). But Culpepper is one of the best QB's in the league and one tough mofo to bring down.

MLB 10-11-2004 12:33 PM

Babin bit on the QB bootleg and is one of the biggest rookie mistakes there is. Playing as a defensive end on running plays Babin is responsible for outside containment on his side of the field, not the other side. Why in the world would he chase a running back he has no chance to catch (he was running in the opposite direction) to the opposite side of the field and not be sure the QB doesn't have the ball (which is on his side of the field)? All he has to do is not allow anyone around his end position on running plays, turn it back to the inside where you have help. (He is making more money that most of us on this board make in total to do this one thing on running plays) It's a simple job description but so easily forgotten by rookies it seems. That play was one of the major reasons we lost this game but was a lesson he should have learned early in college.

bruenice 10-11-2004 12:44 PM

Peek gets sealed faster than a zip lock bag against the run, he's horrible at fighting off blocks to make a tackle, or even keep contain to force the runner inside to one of the LB's. Babin has 2 sacks so far, and he's played well against the run for a rook making a tough transition. Peek, on the other hand, hasn't proven much against the run in his second year.

how can he show improvement on the run when he isn't in there to improve. i'm sorry, but i must agree with mlb and georgewashington. for as many good plays that babin made, he made a number of other ones that hurt the team.

jr0ck 10-11-2004 02:28 PM

Quote:

(on dunta) clearly the best player the Texans have on the defensive side already
wow, forgetting a certain j.sharper are we? and its hard for me to listen to all the peek pwns babin, babin's a bust blah blah......so what if babin "only" beat a tight end for a sack, it was still an nfl TE wasn't it? how many people did peek beat on his untouched sack in K.C. that he was so hearleded for in that game? whereas babin gets downplayed when tackling the leagues most complete running back (L.T.) for a 3yd loss; i guarentee if peek makes that same tackle it only adds fuel to the fire that peek is better than babin if only given the chance to prove it :yap

Quote:

Babin had a fine game yesterday, and sure, he will be on the ground from time to time, like everyone else. He is making our decision to move up to snag him look like a better and better move each week.
agreed, just because we traded up in the draft to get babin doesn't mean we should expect a lawernece taylor incarnate in babin's first nfl season. playing solid while making the transition from DE to LB is as much as you can ask from a good football player, which babin is.

Quote:

Why in the world would he chase a running back he has no chance to catch (he was running in the opposite direction)
must not of played much football, or at least much defense. if moore would have gotten the ball, the left side of the front 7 is supposed to stretch that to the sideline and babin should have been one of the first 3 to make the tackle. that being said he did get "okie doaked" and bit a little too hard inside, but seeing as culpepper didn't run it in, shouldn't the CB/S share a little more of than blame than "its babin's fault they scored"?

my only complaint about jason babin is his gooney goatie, he looks like the love child of a vampire and luigi (of super mario brother fame):BananaWav

georgewashington 10-11-2004 03:15 PM

The point of stretching the field is not to get someone from teh other side to make the tackle, it is to allow more men to come up to the line to make the play. The back side does not come over to make the play, because if there is a cut back, then who do you suppose will stop it? a safety 15 yards down field? an offside LB should only be making tackles on the other side of the field if someone breaks off a run, if its in the backfield thats the job of the other linebackers and linemen. and just because daunte didnt run it doesnt mean Babin isnt at fault, he had all day out on the flat to make a pass, and yes it was a huge back breaker in the game. and for those of you who say his play has been better and better you tell me how 18 tackles and 2 sacks in playing basically 5 games, except 4th quarter against KC, is better than 7 tackles and a sack, and forcing two other sacks in basically 1 quarter against KC, and a few other random downs that Peek has? exactly the math doesnt add up for Babin, say what you want but numbers dont lie.

chuckm 10-11-2004 03:37 PM

oh jeeeez here we go again with the Babin v. Peek posts .... why does it have to be either or? How about on passing downs getting one of the down linemen out of the game and having Babin line up at DE like he did in college? Peek's game is speed .... Babin seems to have more all around ability ....

:twocents:

jr0ck 10-11-2004 04:21 PM

Quote:

The point of stretching the field is not to get someone from teh other side to make the tackle, it is to allow more men to come up to the line to make the play
so when its hat on hat, w/the DE, LBs, and CB stretching the play your telling me that the untouched backside LB isn't going to run down the RB when he is only moving parallel to the LOS? i didn't say he is suppoed to make the play, but at least one of the first of defenders there.

Quote:

and just because daunte didnt run it doesnt mean Babin isnt at fault, he had all day out on the flat to make a pass, and yes it was a huge back breaker in the game. and for those of you who say his play has been better and better you tell me how 18 tackles and 2 sacks in playing basically 5 games, except 4th quarter against KC, is better than 7 tackles and a sack, and forcing two other sacks in basically 1 quarter against KC, and a few other random downs that Peek has? exactly the math doesnt add up for Babin, say what you want but numbers dont lie.
so it was a big enough back breaker that we didn't stay poised enough to take the most productive offense in the league to OT and then give a chance to our offense to win the game after losing the toss? if you want to go by numbers fine, i thought the patriots recent winning streak/2 out of 3 SB victories would have shown the holes in the "numbers game" by now. and just because i saw it, peek's play on the winning TD pass showed me why he's a situational pass rusher. not only did he jump offsides but he got mugged even having the jump. so had the TD not been caught peek's "higher ability" would have given daunte another chance at finding the endzone or getting a 1st down in field goal territory.

Quote:

and forcing two other sacks in basically 1 quarter against KC, and a few other random downs that Peek has
so strictly stats apply to babin but intangibles like "other random downs" and "forcing two other sacks" are valid points for peek? babin gives the texans a better chance to win as a starter period. the texans would be at more of a loss without babin than peek period.

georgewashington 10-11-2004 06:57 PM

strictly stats apply to both of them thats the point. if you take the ratio of tackles to the ratio of playing time, peek is just as good if not better statistically. the stats do apply to both of them. and if its strength you say peek doesnt have, then how is it that at the combine he threw up the most reps for OLB with a hurt shoulder? the only thing that peek was lacking on was making some reads last year, and if he had some playing time then that would improve, just like you say babins will. your argument is skewed, you cant argue that one guy is better or will be better after some more reps, when the person that you are arguing against needs the same thing. this is the same reason why rookies dont start at QB, they need time to develop, so why does that not apply to other positions. and with some game time peek would pick it up quicker just like in college where freshman year he started as a wide receiver, then moved to safety, then added 50 pounds to play DE. seems like he has learned how to make adjustments when he is given chances.

jacquescas 10-11-2004 07:12 PM

Babin is where we invested alot of picks and alot more money than Peek. Babin will be given every opportunity to start and play up to his potential, unless Peek can simply play outstanding the few plays he is in there he wont get more time unless someone goes down with an injury (Peek also was offsides on the last play of the game)


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