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-   -   Carr not Quincy! (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2064)

pittbull 08-20-2004 03:01 PM

Carr not Quincy!
To hear some of our fans on the radio, many try to make the comparison of Carr to Quincy Carter! Not due to his being suspended because of drug abuse, but his development into the NFL, after three plus seasons. Houston fans, get a grip on Carr. It is really unbelievalbe to hear the way fans are upset at this guys development. Although Carr would be the last person to make excuses for his play, I will.

Year one: Expansion Team. No Boselli. No offensive weapons. No knowledge of the offense or the league as a whole. And a horrible offensive play book, due to all the mentioned items. You can only run but so many types of plays for the players we had!

Year Two: More weapons. BUT No Boselli. First Year Left Tackle. Young Offensive Weapons. Injury plagued, but showed tremendous leadership and guts! Better knowledge of the offense and the NFL, with an expanded playbook!

Year Three: Should see tremendous strides. Returning (10) Offensive starters. True offensive weapons in Johnson, Davis, Gaffney, and a core offensive line that has played together. Strong knowledge of the offense, and a huge playbook (Unless Peek had the offensive plays in his....LOL)!

Remember folks, David Carr is not Troy Aikman. He's not going to sit in the pocket and allow Hall of famers to make him look good. This kid has guts, talent, intelligence, and is more comparable to Favre (In attitude), being a gun-slinger. He's going to make mistakes by trying to beat teams with his athletic ability, but he is going to make even bigger plays to win games. Get a grip. He will develop into a mega-star in this league. WITH OR WITHOUT HOUSTON'S SUPPORT! :headbang:

TexanExile 08-20-2004 03:04 PM

I really hope you're 100% right. Carr seems like he's full of promise, and seems like a solid guy, and I want him to be the best QB in the history of Texas pro football.

But if there's no progress in his development in Year 3, I think it's fair for the Texans to start demanding it...or work on another plan.

infantrycak 08-20-2004 03:36 PM

Ummm, Troy Aikman will be a first ballot hall of famer himself and I for one would be ecstatic if Carr ended up in his league. Carr would be the first to tell you he hasn't proven himself yet.

By the way, a progression like Aikman's would spell very good things--Aikman's first four years:

1989 Gms 11 Comp 155 Att 293 Comp % 52.9 yds 1749 ypa 6.0 TD's 9 INT's 18
1990 Gms 15 Comp 226 Att 399 Comp % 56.6 yds 2579 ypa 6.5 TD's 11 INT's 18
1991 Gms 12 Comp 237 Att 363 Comp % 65.3 yds 2754 ypa 7.6 TD's 11 INT's 10
1992 Gms 16 Comp 302 Att 473 Comp% 63.8 yds 3445 ypa 7.3 TD's 23 INT's 14

Some similarity there for Carr's 1st two years:

2002 Gms 16 Comp 233 Att 444 Comp% 52.5 yds 2592 ypa 5.8 TD's 9 Int's 15
2003 Gms 12 Comp 167 Att 295 Comp % 56.6 yds 2013 ypa 6.8 TD's 9 Int's 13

Let's hope Carr can do as Aikman did in his third year (except for being injured for four games)--much better completion %, significantly more yards per attempt and more TD's than INT's.

Porky 08-20-2004 03:49 PM

Where have you seen fans, or even media, compare Carr to Carter? Other than their strong arms, their games are dissimilar in several ways, or at the least, Carr is a superior leader, and intellectually suberb by comparison. If you have a link or something, present it.

DOCTOR24 08-20-2004 04:05 PM


Originally Posted by pittbull
Remember folks, David Carr is not Troy Aikman. He's not going to sit in the pocket and allow Hall of famers to make him look good. This kid has guts, talent, intelligence, and is more comparable to Favre (In attitude), being a gun-slinger.:

I hope you are not insinuating that Troy Aikman did not have guts, talent, and intellgence!! Nor, am I hoping you are not insinuating that Troy Aikman was not a good QB! Regardless of all the talent around him, someone still had to get the football to them! The man was a 65% career completion passer for crying out loud! Troy Aikman was as tough as they come as a QB, and he has three Super Bowl rings! Don't get me wrong because I love the Texans and love David Carr as our QB, but he can only hope that his football career will be even come close to that of Troy Aikman. As a matter of fact, who do you think Carr's football hero was? He wears number #8 out of respect for Troy Aikman!!!

WWJD 08-20-2004 04:06 PM

I've never heard anybody in the media compare Carr to Carter and if they did it was a slam dunk as to whom they preferred.

I am a huge Troy Aikman fan and will defend him but he took several years to develop and it's that way with almost every young QB. The NFL is much more complicated than college, the game is faster and well you know all the other 100 reasons why it's hard for rookie QB's.

This is a team game. So if the QB is surrounded by less than steller talent it shows.

As for Troy, well somebody had to pass the ball to Irvin to make him a great receiver. He certainly didn't allow HOF's to make him good. He was great. A winner. He's one of the best playoff QB's of all time.

Give Carr time. He's progressing. He's got some talent to work with now.

It's a team sport.

Carr Bombed 08-20-2004 04:47 PM

I really get tired of hearing this ****. It takes 3 to 4 years for a quarterback to fully develop and thats not starting from ground zero on a expansion franchise. Everybody talks about how our sacks were cut in half from year 1 to year 2 and gives the credit to the offensive line wich has impoved alot, but alot of that is contributed also to the fact that Carr has developed a quicker release and also has excellent scrambling ability. All Carr needs now is poise, which he showed alot of in that preseason game. Everybody talks about that touchdown pass he made. My favorite play that game was when the cowboys brought an all out blitz and Carr made them pay by kicking it out to Hollings for the big gain that set up that touchdown, that was poise. If teams bring the blitz this year he will make them pay. If he stays healthy this year will be Carr breakout year, I garrantee it. I also want yall to look TD to Int comparision at the start of some of the all time greats careers

Bart Starr __TD _____INT

Year 1 _____2 _______ 3
Year 2 _____8 ______ 10
Year 3 _____3 ______ 10
Year 4 _____6 _______ 7
Year 5 _____4 _______ 8
Year 6 _____16 _____ 16

Terry Bradshaw ___TD____ INT

Year 1___________ 6 _____ 24
Year 2___________ 13 ____ 22
Year 3 ___________12 ____ 12
Year 4 ___________10 ____ 15
Year 5 ___________ 7 _____ 8
Year 6 ___________18 ____ 9

and heres the stats from and old Houston qb

Warren Moon____TD______INT
Year 1 _________12 _____ 14
Year 2 _________15 _____ 19
Year 3 _________13 _____ 26
Year 4 _________21 _____ 18

People just need to be patient David Carr is going to be a great Quarterback is this league.

Livid13 08-20-2004 04:50 PM

Carr versus Quincy?
I love sports talk RADIO. It's obvious that guys like Jim Rome are the exception, perhaps even the dreaded Tony Kornholio. Everyone knows that Wilbon CARRIES Korn's rear on PTI, but I'm drifting... back to the point. I value the opinion of most local sports/talk hosts, as much as I do the majority of callers. It's always so entertaining to hear some *****, that can't even speak the English language correctly, or at the very least, at a 5th grade level, comment upon the nuances of ANY GIVEN SPORT. "Yeah, uhhh, I love your show man and I uhhh...you know what I think about these guys in the NFL....cause it's not like they don't get paid....you know, uhhh....like ALOT of money and stuff.....so anyway, I think that Carr like....you know man, he...can I say this?....Yeah, he sucks and is ALOT like Quincy Carter cause .....you know they've been in the league.....for I don't know.....7 years...NO... that was a JOKE I just made up, I know it's really FIVE....but you know what I'm saying?".
"Yeah, unfortunately I do, you're a simpleton who needs to shut up, get back to work and change the right rear tire, on that 1988 Volvo, that Juan, Jim Bob and Punam keep riding you about". I could care less about the "insight" of the majority of sports/talk show callers, or posters on any NFL site. I love the fact that there are literally MILLIONS of serious minded sports fans too. THESE are the guys and gals that I want to hear from. Don't get me wrong. Whenever I'm feeling a little down on myself, have had a rough day, or just went off at the guy who cut me off on the freeway, all I have to do is to listen to some local, washed up jock, who can't even open his e-mail (Bucky in Austin) and I realize just how good I've got it. Pitbull, there are alot of stupid people in this world and to address your point more concisely, there are alot of IGNORANT sports fans, that have no clue about the game that they speak about (all too frequently), in any public forum. You're right, there are NO comparisions between the afore mentioned quarterbacks. That being said, I for one expect a significant improvement in Carr's game, on every level. This should be the year where he makes some significant strides in field awareness, confidence, completetion percentage, interception ratio, adjustments at the line, yards per completion, audible abilities and much more. Do I think he's going to have a Pro Bowl year? Nope, but depending on the offensive line improving, running game bangin', receiver's reliability/consistency, yardage after the catch and most importantly of all, a HEALTHY starting unit( both sides of the ball) he SHOULD be in the top ten rated, QB's in the AFC. I may be unrealistic, but I think the top 5-6 in the AFC, to be an attainable goal. I know many of you have already grown impatient. He may NOT pan out, but if I had to bet everything on yea, or nay, my money would be heavy on D Carr. Quincy WHO?

OzzO 08-20-2004 05:04 PM

Need to re-read the post guys, pittbull noted a caller made the comparison. I'm assuming 610 as I heard the same caller I do believe.... so it was not the media, there is no link, just an person with a sub-par thought process. :crazy:

Don't sweat it pittbull.... he didn't sound like the most intelligent fan out there.

Livid13 08-20-2004 05:33 PM

I wasn't even in the NEIGHBORHOOD of inferring that Pitbull was the simpleton. I was referring to those "special callers", or "posters". I thought my post to be relatively clear, but for the record. NO, I did not mean PITBULL!

Panther5407 08-20-2004 05:52 PM

Carr has shown what he can do with his weapons at hand. Now, its time to unleash them.

LiveForTheGame 08-20-2004 06:05 PM

For those of you who keep saying the same thing as what I also agree with...it takes 3 years to show significant improvement. He'll still learn this year, but he'll be a lot better and perform a lot better.

As for right now, the question has already been answered at how good he's going to be or how much he has improved. He showed that with a 150+ passer rating in the FIRST preseason game of his third season. As for his playmaking ability...he answered that with the pass to Gaffney...

Case closed

TexanExile 08-20-2004 08:00 PM


Originally Posted by caddy
Carr has proven himself to me... There is no doubt in my
mind.. We've got a winner. If I were you, I would leave
Fla. It's has taken you heart. :cool:

Impossible! Texan till I die. :thumbup Like I said, I really WANT Carr to be fantastic, and I honestly think this will be the year when he shows he was worth the wait. But if he's no better in 2004 than he was in 2003 (and it's HIS fault, not that of injuries or something else), how long is long enough?
I'm a big fan of the Capers plan for Carr and the Texans in general, but it's gonna become a hot issue sometime.

As for leaving Florida...I'm always tryin'... :)

JustBonee 08-21-2004 10:25 AM

http://www.speedysigns.com/images/de...LL/FTB_C09.gif .. as Doctor24 stated above .. Carr chose to wear #8 out of admiration for Troy Aikman. And if you are going to admire someone with the Cowboys .. that is one of the better choices IMO.

Jwwillis 08-21-2004 10:47 AM

Carefull comparing Carrs 1st 2yr stats with Carter or Aikman or anybody else drafted by a NON expansion team. Carr didnt have the luxery of starting with an established offensive line. Having to drop and run for your life doesnt lend itself to stellar QB stats. Carr is in a unique postion and has handled it very well. I agree that Carr is more like Favre,Elway than Carter,Aikman.

DoCt3rJ 08-21-2004 11:20 AM

He hasen't "proven" himself yet. He has just showed flashes of promise. But theres no way he has proven himself on the field yet.

pittbull 08-21-2004 02:19 PM

First, Thanks A4toZ for backing me up! What I was stating was some of the comments I have heard on 610 radio lately. I spend alot of time on the road, and obviously talk radio ventures into the car. I recently heard a few callers making the comparison to Quincy Carter, and not only that, just blasting Carr's development. It's an easy comparison to make for any of us AND complain about, as we live through these players every sunday afternoon, but not justified on any level, as we sit in our loungers and make statements about a game we have never played, on the NFL level. Obviously, anyone that is able to make the adjustment into the highest level of football, such as an Aikman, Marino, Elway, Bradshaw, and the list goes on and on, are exceptional athletes, but not many come into the league and take it by storm. As a matter of fact, its' only going to become more difficult as players become faster, smarter, quicker, and yes, more selfish, hampering the development of role players! I for one don't believe we can place a feasible time table on a guy like Carr who is playing for a developing franchise. Through his two years, his development has been slowed due to line trouble and injuries. Is the same being said about Pennington? Is the same being said about Vick? Both have been deemed franchise saviors, but what have they accomplished. Had this been the Houston Oilers of 2004, still remaining in Houston, with seasoned veterans around him, yes, I would be stating that Carr needs to show extreme improvement with proven commodities around him, but over 60% of our team is on the same path as Carr, getting better, learning on the fly, and building the foundation, on what WILL BECOME AMERICA'S TRUE TEAM.........THE HOUSTON TEXANS! I think we need to show the same improvement as the team, making the Texan fan base the most supportive, backbone to any professional franchise, rather than one that shows our ugly side, like a spoiled step-child anytime a player doesn't complete a pass, run what we thought was the approprite route, or take a hit from a 330lb lineman!! If anyone is out there who feels they can do better, I'm sure Casserly and Capers would welcome the tryout! :headbang:

WWJD 08-21-2004 04:46 PM

I like Carr. I think he's smart, saavy and a team leader.

Chad Pennington and Mike Vick has both lead their teams to playoff games. So I'm not so sure they haven't accomplished anything.

So much depends on the team surrounding the QB. If it's not so hot chances are the QB will struggle no matter who it is.

I think it's safe to say that all 3 of these guys can and will play in many playoff games before they retire.

Huge 08-21-2004 08:40 PM


Originally Posted by Jwwillis
Carefull comparing Carrs 1st 2yr stats with Carter or Aikman or anybody else drafted by a NON expansion team. Carr didnt have the luxery of starting with an established offensive line. Having to drop and run for your life doesnt lend itself to stellar QB stats. Carr is in a unique postion and has handled it very well. I agree that Carr is more like Favre,Elway than Carter,Aikman.

Excellent point. We should be comparing him to another QB that started with an expansion team...

Carr's first two years --
2002 - 233 of 444 (52.5%), 2,592 yards (5.84 per attempt), 9 TDs, 15 INTs, 62.8 rating
2003 - 167 of 295 (56.6%), 2,013 yards (6.82 per attempt), 9 TDs, 13 INTs, 69.5 rating

Couch's first two years --
1999 - 223 of 399 (55.9%), 2,447 yards (6.13 per attempt), 15 TDs, 13 INTs, 73.2 rating
2000 - 137 of 215 (63.7%), 1,483 yards (6.90 per attempt), 7 TDs, 9 INTs, 77.3 rating

Would this be a fair comparison?

Mistril48 08-21-2004 09:21 PM


Originally Posted by Huge
Excellent point. We should be comparing him to another QB that started with an expansion team... Would this be a fair comparison?

Perhaps ... did Couch win the teams first game againt the happless C'boys?

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