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-   -   What if Coleman makes the Pro Bowl? (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1240)

El Tejano 07-15-2004 10:51 AM

What if Coleman makes the Pro Bowl?
 
We have heard about us not keeping Coleman after this year because he is in his last year of his contract and is scheduled to make way more than what a safety makes.

But my question is what if this dude suprises us all and puts up Pro Bowl #s and actually makes the trip to Hawaii? Do we give him the money he wants or do we allow him to shop around or do we even franchise him?

I am going to step out and say that Coleman will be a big part of our defense this season and will lead in INTs this season. :hmmm:

Lucky 07-15-2004 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Tejano
We have heard about us not keeping Coleman after this year because he is in his last year of his contract and is scheduled to make way more than what a safety makes.

Coleman is in his last contract & becomes a FA after this season. That's if he doesn't re-up with the Texans before the end of the season. This is the season that Coleman is expensive, he's making over $3 million in salary with a cap hit of over $4 million. If Marcus re-signs with the Texans, it will be with a cap hit much lower than that.

If Coleman takes to the FS spot, I think the Texans ink him to a new contract during the season. If he doesn't, he hits the FA market. I don't think money will come into play at all regarding the decision to keep Coleman past this season.

infantrycak 07-15-2004 11:28 AM

To elaborate on what Lucky said, Coleman will have a cap hit of $4.3 mil this year (it was $4.8 last year by the way)--that is a little above the franchise number for a safety but as a CB which is what the contract contemplated it is a mid level number--compare to the franchise tag that will be close to $8.6 mil this year. That number is inflated from a more normal $6.8 mil due to Winfield receiving his bonus as a roster bonus rather than a signing bonus, but the point still holds that Coleman was not a top paid player at his position. Coleman has already publicly acknowledged that he knew he would have to make the transition to safety at some point so in all likelihood he also knows he will have to make the transition to safety pay scale. If he goes to the pro-bowl I would expect him to sign for a high but under franchise level contract on the safety pay scale, i.e. something around the transition number of about $3.5 mil. Less than pro-bowl, adjust down some based on performance.

El Tejano 07-15-2004 11:28 AM

I was thinking it would be a situation where we agree on a contract mid season. Casserly is usually pretty good at that and I am sure we wouldn't want to lose him if he plays well at the new position.

Vinny 07-15-2004 11:57 AM

I figure we will F-tag him if he makes the pro-bowl or just has an outstanding season for that matter. Capers really likes his diversity.

Scooter 07-15-2004 12:13 PM

i dont think it'll matter. wasnt he tied for the league lead in INT's going into the probowl selection last year? i think we'd have to be well above .500 and he'd have to start breaking records back there to get enough folks outside of houston to vote for him. with aaron glenn in the backfield i dont think coleman's going to get enough attention from out of towners to make it.

El Tejano 07-15-2004 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooter
i dont think it'll matter. wasnt he tied for the league lead in INT's going into the probowl selection last year? i think we'd have to be well above .500 and he'd have to start breaking records back there to get enough folks outside of houston to vote for him. with aaron glenn in the backfield i dont think coleman's going to get enough attention from out of towners to make it.

Sometimes, I feel, all it takes is a couple of highlights on Sportscenter or NFL Prime Time.

infantrycak 07-15-2004 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Tejano
Sometimes, I feel, all it takes is a couple of highlights on Sportscenter or NFL Prime Time.

Exactly--JMO but a bigger reason than the Texans' record for why Sharper hasn't been to the pro-bowl the last couple years is his demeaner, i.e. he doesn't dance and pose for the cameras to make highlights after his big plays.

TheOgre 07-15-2004 01:00 PM

"What if Coleman makes the Pro Bowl? "

I'd assume he gets to go to Hawaii. Next question? :rofl:

Fiddy 07-15-2004 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infantrycak
Exactly--JMO but a bigger reason than the Texans' record for why Sharper hasn't been to the pro-bowl the last couple years is his demeaner, i.e. he doesn't dance and pose for the cameras to make highlights after his big plays.

I think he needs to dance like Ray Lewis when he is introduced, but I am having trouble picturing him doing that...

infantrycak 07-15-2004 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiddy
I think he needs to dance like Ray Lewis when he is introduced, but I am having trouble picturing him doing that...

Well and just so people don't misunderstand, I am not encouraging that kind of thing--frankly like Sharper's style of play a lot more, but I think it hurts his pro-bowl chances.

nunusguy 07-15-2004 02:16 PM

Why is Coleman even that much of a concern ? The safety position is the least stategic position, least difficult position on the D side of the field to fill. Coleman is clearly an outstanding athelete, but he lacks the all important attribute of superior natural speed to be a pure corner - thats what D.Robinson has in spades and for more than any other reason, that is why we used our 10 overall on him.
You can always staff the safety position with over-the-hill, burnt-out
corners who no longer can keep up with the speed guys at WR(or were never true corners in the first place because of lack of superior speed), or pick them up in the 3rd, 4th, or > roound in the college draft. Coleman is a fine athelete and good football player who is too slow to be an above average corner and too small to be a LB.

Lucky 07-15-2004 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nunusguy
Why is Coleman even that much of a concern ? The safety position is the least stategic position, least difficult position on the D side of the field to fill.

That hasn't been the case for the Texans. If you lived during the Matt Stevens Era, I think you'd understand our concerns.

Scooter 07-15-2004 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nunusguy
Why is Coleman even that much of a concern ? The safety position is the least stategic position, least difficult position on the D side of the field to fill. Coleman is clearly an outstanding athelete, but he lacks the all important attribute of superior natural speed to be a pure corner - thats what D.Robinson has in spades and for more than any other reason, that is why we used our 10 overall on him.
You can always staff the safety position with over-the-hill, burnt-out
corners who no longer can keep up with the speed guys at WR(or were never true corners in the first place because of lack of superior speed), or pick them up in the 3rd, 4th, or > roound in the college draft. Coleman is a fine athelete and good football player who is too slow to be an above average corner and too small to be a LB.

i'm curious where your knocks on coleman come from. last season he had an afc lead with 7 INT's and was big on our team with 69 tackles ... many of which came while playing the #1 cb. either he's got above average ball-hawking abilities that can make a great free safety or he's that much better at cb than folks give him credit. either way he's very likely to have a probowl season whether anyone outside of houston vote for him or not.

pv1999 07-15-2004 05:39 PM

What?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nunusguy
Why is Coleman even that much of a concern ? The safety position is the least stategic position, least difficult position on the D side of the field to fill. Coleman is clearly an outstanding athelete, but he lacks the all important attribute of superior natural speed to be a pure corner - thats what D.Robinson has in spades and for more than any other reason, that is why we used our 10 overall on him.

:crazy:

Having Coleman at the safety gives us a nickle-look on as our base defense. The way it looks now, we will lead the NFL in team interceptions this year. But let's not forget, Coleman is/was a hell of a CB (better than 10 other AFC team's best CBs) and still has a year or two left in his tank at the least.
Now if he makes the pro bowl and we don't keep him that would be more nostalgic (i.e. like what the oilers/astros would have done.) than smart.

infantrycak 07-15-2004 07:53 PM

Quote:

Coleman is clearly an outstanding athelete, but he lacks the all important attribute of superior natural speed...
I find it very hard to judge pure speed on the field due to player smarts, instincts, etc. In any event, I would say look back at the last two year's bad plays by Coleman and you will find that over-aggression, pure being out of place and slipping (ahem Titans game last year) account for the vast majority of his "burned on" plays rather than straight up speed. Go back and look at the tape and find the instances of pure speed rather than bad judgment being the cause--they are few and far between. Coleman gambles and/or get's distracted at time--the former leads to INT's as well but both contribute to giving up plays. His speed is sufficient especially in the age of "who cares if he runs a 4.6 or 4.7 40 he is a great WR." All that said, Coleman has the potential to be a great, ball-hawking FS which in our division could be huge.

ArlingtonTexan 07-15-2004 08:12 PM

Nuns,

Easy is a relative term. If a team has a guy that can play a position unless there are salary concerns, off field issues(possible here) or somebody already in place teams generally don't just let a player go for the heck of it assuming there is another guy just floating around you can just plug in.

Overall,

My guess is that the Texans are hoping that Jammal Lord can be a long-term answer, but Coleman could be resigned at the right price or McCree could be the stop gap while Lord develops.

rittenhouserobz 07-15-2004 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infantrycak
I would say look back at the last two year's bad plays by Coleman and you will find that over-aggression, pure being out of place and slipping (ahem Titans game last year) account for the vast majority of his "burned on" plays rather than straight up speed. Go back and look at the tape and find the instances of pure speed rather than bad judgment being the cause--they are few and far between. Coleman gambles and/or get's distracted at time--the former leads to INT's as well but both contribute to giving up plays. His speed is sufficient especially in the age of "who cares if he runs a 4.6 or 4.7 40 he is a great WR." All that said, Coleman has the potential to be a great, ball-hawking FS which in our division could be huge.

I am sure Coleman was expecting safety help when that Titans play happened. I think he is disciplined enough to know not to jump a route when there is no safety help. As for this year, I expect a steller year from him. I am more concerned about Glenn though I hope he holds up this year.

infantrycak 07-16-2004 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rittenhouserobz
I am sure Coleman was expecting safety help when that Titans play happened. I think he is disciplined enough to know not to jump a route when there is no safety help. As for this year, I expect a steller year from him. I am more concerned about Glenn though I hope he holds up this year.

Actually, on that play Coleman had no safety help over the top. They were on the other side of the field helping whichever Glenn replacement was in (can't remember who right now. Nonetheless, speed is not what killed Coleman on that play. He slipped just short of the end-zone and allowed a gap to develop. Still a costly mistake, but it wasn't a speed issue. People see a CB get burned and they assume speed problems.

nunusguy 07-16-2004 09:02 AM

I have mixed feelings 'bout what we gave up for Babin in the draft - but it's worth it if he can perform as hoped for at the all important OLB position in our
3-4 D. At the same time, I'm so glad we didn't move up in the draft this year to take Sean Taylor (a widely rumored move by us which was popular with a lot of Texans' fans) - because it would have cost us dearly and for what - an allegedly great college football player playing the relatively unimportant position of safety.
That's my same argument for Coleman - if Robinson meets our expectations and has some time to develope he will be an upgrade over Coleman(and a young player who will be with us for many yrs) and the latters importance to the team can now be discounted because he's playing a far less important position with his move from CB to safety.
But as Lucky pointed out, we suffered mightily with Stevens - but he was an inferior athlete and player by NFL standards. A larger problem re. our D than Stevens missing all those tackles is that we depended on anybody making so many tackles 30 to 40 yards down the field and beyond the line of scrimage.


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