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-   -   Is Carr Comfortible with any Receiver (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106)

Ibar_Harry 05-02-2004 06:36 PM

Is Carr Comfortible with any Receiver
 
on the Texans Team. Miller seems like the best bet. I was hoping we would pick up Berrian, but we gave up that possibility for defense. I'm going to say that that may prove to be a big mistake. There has been not indication that Carr and AJ have been working together in the off season. To develop the Harrison-Manning type connection, you have to work hard together in the off-season. Despite the receivers we have, I think this is a big weakness and it shows in the lack of consistency in the offense. Some of you will take me to task, but I think this is a part of the game you need to keep your eyes on. It takes two to be great in this phase of the game. One player can not do it alone. Hopefully we will hear that AJ and Carr have spent a lot of time together, but as I have stated there doesn't seem to be any such feedback out there indicating that that is taking place.

777texans 05-02-2004 06:47 PM

hmm.... I wish/hope Carr/Andre worked together. Hey I have a question are QB's and WR good friends like Manning/Harrison?

Vinny 05-02-2004 07:00 PM

If Carr can only throw to a "certain kind of receiver" then he is not a franchise QB. I think he will be fine. He needs to anticipate open receivers better. In the NFL, you cannot wait to visually see a guy open. You have to read the coverage and anticipate the throw. Carr waited way too long last year to find his second and third options so he was stuck throwing to AJ, or Dom Davis on a dump down. In year one it was the same thing. When he did not throw to Bradford, he checked all the way down to his last option in Miller. He has yet to find his middle options on a regular basis. I look for him to check down faster in his third year. ;)

Fiddy 05-02-2004 07:04 PM

I dont know if Carr and AJ worked together, but if they did I dont think it was a lot. Most Miami Hurricanes go back to the Miami campus to work out for the offseason for some reason. I really dont think a QB and WR can help their connection through the offseason with no defense.

Ibar Harry, are you from Fresno or a Fresno fan? Where would have Berrian played? A return specialist becuase he isnt going to overtake AJ, or Gaff for that matter. The coaching staff has been really high on Derrick Armstrong and the say he should be on the field a whole lot more this season. I really dont see how skipping Berrian to get Babin was a "big mistake." We have 3 good WRs in AJ, Gaff, and Bradford. Four if what they say about Armstrong is true. We didnt have a pass rushing OLB. I cant see how getting a 4th string, 3rd at best, wideout is better then getting a pass rushing OLB.

Ibar_Harry 05-02-2004 07:30 PM

Yes, I'm from Fresno and have watched Berrian and Carr play together. Again people forget that Berrian caught 25% of the passes thrown by Carr in his senior year. I think Berrian made Carr as much as Carr made Berrian. I believe Berrian, if he is healthy, is going to surprise a lot of people. He could be a Jerry Rice. He has tremendous hands and Kattie bar the door if there is any day light. Carr and Berrian had the Manning-Harrison type connection. The injury Berrian suffered in his original senior year could be the deciding factor. You have to have hands to recieve from Carr and I think that's why he likes Miller. Berrian was also an excellent route runner and that is another big factor for someone who throws missles like Carr. You have to be where the ball is going to be thrown. I think Carr is sufferning much like Elway in his 1st few years until they got some receivers with hands and Elway learned to finally take a little off of the ball. It has been stated that Harrison and Manning spend a lot of practice time together and I can believe it. It certainly has paid off for them.

Vinny 05-02-2004 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
You have to have hands to recieve from Carr and I think that's why he likes Miller.

Miller caught a lot of balls Carr's first year because he was he last check-down. Last year, Dom Davis was the last check-down in the progression. Miller was higher in the hierarchy, and note how Miller's production fell off. Combine this fact with my earlier statements and it is easy to see a direct correlation there.

Fiddy 05-02-2004 07:38 PM

I bet that Carr/AJ would be better than Carr/Berrian. I understand that Carr and Berrian had great success in college together, but I dont think you develop a Manning/Harrison type connection in college. It is a different game from the NCAA to the NFL. How many times did Berrian face press coverage in college.

ledzeppelin229 05-02-2004 07:43 PM

I think all of our receivers have at worst adequate hands, but as SB said its pretty tough to catch a ball if it hasn't been thrown to you. Another problem with last season was Carr getting hurt for half the season and that might have hurt their progression but once camp starts back I think we'll see a much more efficient QB on our team. As for Berrian, keep an eye out for Sloan Thomas and Kendrick Starling, both seem to be a couple of sleeper WRs that have speed and pretty good hands from what I hear.

Fiddy 05-02-2004 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ledzeppelin269
I think all of our receivers have at worst adequate hands....

Gaffney has good to great hands, his hands are very underrated.

infantrycak 05-02-2004 07:46 PM

Quote:

Again people forget that Berrian caught 25% of the passes thrown by Carr in his senior year. I think Berrian made Carr as much as Carr made Berrian.
And AJ caught almost 40% of all the passing yards from Carr/Banks last year. Does that mean they are more comfortable with him than Carr ever was with Berrian? We have 12 WR's for camp, plenty to find 5 solid prospects for the roster. FYI--in his rookie year AJ was the 6th best WR in the AFC with a rotating roster of injured and rookie QB's. Carr and AJ's chemistry is just fine.

Ibar_Harry 05-02-2004 07:49 PM

I hope AJ and Carr become great as a duo, but I think AJ's hands are going to limit his great physical ability. I think you will find that Davis has very good hands along with Miller and Carr did dump a lot of passes in this senior year to people coming out of the back field. Anyway, its fun to open up the discussion a little bit and we will just have to wait and see what happens this year. I question what we have done in the off season to impove this team offensively. Yes, we picked up Wade, but we have not done a whole lot else.

Vinny 05-02-2004 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
I question what we have done in the off season to impove this team offensively. Yes, we picked up Wade, but we have not done a whole lot else.

This is the by-product of building via youth and having a 5-year plan. When you start a team with youngsters you don't make radical changes. You develop your young guys and add key veterans each year at critical positions. I just don't see any huge holes on our offense as some perceive.

Overall we added two impact linemen this year in the off-season. 2/8ths of the starting lines (offense and defense combined). This is a 25% upgrade to our lines. Factor in the resigning of Gary Walker and this is a fairly substantial off-season.

Fiddy 05-02-2004 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
I hope AJ and Carr become great as a duo, but I think AJ's hands are going to limit his great physical ability.

It was posted in another thread (stats courtesy of infantrycak)., but AJ had 10 drops last year. 3 because of a left handed QB replacement. So he really had 7. Moss had 9. His hands are just fine. TO doesnt have the best hands, but he is a great WR.

aj. 05-02-2004 08:08 PM

Yep. Bernard Berrian could be the next Jerry Rice. He really looks like the type who could go for 1,500 receptions, 22,000 yards and 195 TDs over the next 19 years. How could we be so stupid to not draft him.

In the 9 games that Carr started and finished, AJ had 44 receptions. That's 5 per game. That projects to 90 over a season. What is the problem?

thebigtrip 05-02-2004 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aj.
In the 9 games that Carr started and finished, AJ had 44 receptions. That's 5 per game. That projects to 90 over a season. What is the problem?

Not to shoot down what you've said, but it'd actually be 80. But yeah, I actually think that AJ has the potential to put up around 90/1300/10 if everything goes right and Carr plays well.

bad 05-02-2004 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
Yes, I'm from Fresno and have watched Berrian and Carr play together.

The same goes for me (small world, eh?) and like Ibar_Harry I was hoping the two could hook up in Houston. It could still happen; for one reason or another Berrian might not be successful in Chicago.

As I've attended Bulldogs games over the years I've seen players that were simply on another level. Marshall Faulk. Randall Cunningham (although we abused him). Henry Ellard and Stephon Paige. Lorenzo Neal. Trent Dilfer. Billy Volek. David Carr. Bernard Berrian was the same; when the ball was in his hands you held your breath. He has NFL-caliber moves, runs great routes and catches everything.

Oh well.

The good news for the Texans is that it seems we've filled our greatest defensive needs in the draft, which can only help our offense. It's going to be nice to have a CB with afterburners who likes to hit, and I'm getting good vibes from the Jason Babin pick, although it was costly. The Texans really wanted that guy and I think we'll understand why in 2004.

Andre Johnson is a stud WR who will only improve, Gaffney is a decent possession receiver and Bradford is a home run threat. We have a virtual plethora of tight ends and in the offensive backfield we have a young stud who has proven himself already and a speedster with a huge upside. I haven't come even close to giving up on Tony Hollings.

I wish the season could start tomorrow.

aj. 05-02-2004 08:31 PM

Of course, 80. Same point 80 - 90. Need more chemistry? Huh?

infantrycak 05-02-2004 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
I hope AJ and Carr become great as a duo, but I think AJ's hands are going to limit his great physical ability.

Funny considering these quotes about Berrian:

"Inconsistent with the hands"
"He needs to improve his route running and his ability to concentrate when catching on the run."
"Has lapses in concetration that lead to dropped balls"

Lucky 05-02-2004 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiddy
It was posted in another thread (stats courtesy of infantrycak)., but AJ had 10 drops last year. 3 because of a left handed QB replacement. So he really had 7.

Huh? Why is it Ragone's fault that AJ dropped 3 of his passes? Does Dave throw a naturally slippery ball? What's up with that?

AJ is potentially a great WR, just as Carr is potentially a great QB. They're not there just yet. If Stats, Inc. came up with 10 drops for AJ, OK. There were plays where he had his hands on the ball that wouldn't be considered drops. He could have made the play and didn't (and he certainly should have in the Tampa Bay game with Ragone at QB). I see AJ becoming a great WR, but he really wasn't "great" last year. Outstanding for a rookie and better than reasonably expected, sure.

ledzeppelin229 05-02-2004 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiddy
Gaffney has good to great hands, his hands are very underrated.

I agree about his hands - What I was trying to say was that I don't think any of our receivers hands had a whole lot to do with whether or not Carr will throw to them.

On the topic of Gaffney, another positive about him that I saw in a game (don't remember who it was against) is he seems to have good awareness of the game around him. I remember a ball was tipped and the other teams DB got it into his hand for a moment, looked like it was about to be intercepted but Gaffney slapped it away for an incomplete pass.

One name that doesn't seem to be thrown around much is Ron Dugans. Will he make the final cut? He's isn't that old but he's been around the league enough to be effective, will he outlast the new guys like Thomas and Starling? We have some guys in NFL Europe that have been playing well too, there should be some tough cuts at WR this year.


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