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PHILLYTEXANFAN 05-10-2014 10:41 PM

Rick v BoB
 
Who do you guys think really had more pull during this draft, was it more of Rick draft or a BoB draft?

Brandon420tx 05-10-2014 10:45 PM

Re: Rick v BoB
 
Considering Ricks history of deferring to the head coach anyway. I think the draft was 90% the various coaches decisions. Basically telling him what positions they liked, and which players and it became Ricks job to just write their names down on a sheet. Seriously, he has done this his entire career here with Kubiak, why should we be surprised that he does the same with BOB and RAC.

WolverineFan 05-10-2014 10:45 PM

Re: Rick v BoB
 
It was both. There is no question that O'Brien had some sort of say in the decisions (as did Crennel) but I think it's also clear that we got a good glimpse of what Smith is able to do without Kubiak hanging over his shoulder.

Houston_Fanatic 05-10-2014 10:47 PM

Re: Rick v BoB
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon420tx (Post 2338834)
Considering Ricks history of deferring to the head coach anyway. I think the draft was 90% the various coaches decisions. Basically telling him what positions they liked, and which players and it became Ricks job to just write their names down on a sheet. Seriously, he has done this his entire career here with Kubiak, why should we be surprised that he does the same with BOB and RAC.

Agreed. Rick Smith went out and found the talent BOB wanted, just like he did for Kubiak. That's his job, after all.

Playoffs 05-10-2014 10:49 PM

Re: Rick v BoB
 
Watch the interviews. OB repeatedly praised Rick and how easy he was to work with. Rick talked about their common vision regarding prospects. OB was impressed by how Rick stuck to their board. Rick obviously listened and respected OB's opinions on players he liked. CJ Fiedorowicz, for example, where Rick was not there to see his pro day.

Seems to me Rick is deferring a lot to a guy he recognizes as having a good football eye, and OB appreciating to organised way they conducted business. So far, no throwing under the bus moments.

Marshall 05-10-2014 10:50 PM

Re: Rick v BoB
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PHILLYTEXANFAN (Post 2338827)
Who do you guys think really had more pull during this draft, was it more of Rick draft or a BoB draft?

Absolutely!

PHILLYTEXANFAN 05-10-2014 11:10 PM

Re: Rick v BoB
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Playoffs (Post 2338840)
Watch the interviews. OB repeatedly praised Rick and how easy he was to work with. Rick talked about their common vision regarding prospects. OB was impressed by how Rick stuck to their board. Rick obviously listened and respected OB's opinions on players he liked. CJ Fiedorowicz, for example, where Rick was not there to see his pro day.

Seems to me Rick is deferring a lot to a guy he recognizes as having a good football eye, and OB appreciating to organised way they conducted business. So far, no throwing under the bus moments.

So, are you saying Rick doesn't have much of a clue and is a "yes man" or he knows his job could be on the line if he doesn't nail this draft?

thunderkyss 05-10-2014 11:30 PM

Re: Rick v BoB
 
If you were the GM, how would you do it?

Most likely, that's the way Rick Smith is doing it.

Playoffs 05-10-2014 11:33 PM

Re: Rick v BoB
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PHILLYTEXANFAN (Post 2338854)
So, are you saying Rick doesn't have much of a clue and is a "yes man" or he knows his job could be on the line if he doesn't nail this draft?

Nope. I said what I said.

PapaL 05-10-2014 11:46 PM

Re: Rick v BoB
 
Why can't two guys work together towards a common goal?

Hervoyel 05-11-2014 12:20 AM

Re: Rick v BoB
 
Personally I think Rick Smith is going to surprise a lot of people over the next few years. I don't believe that McNair would have kept him around if he was as worthless as many people in here feel like he is. We're going to see him with a different HC and have a chance to compare and contrast the way things play out between the Smith/Kubiak and Smith/O'Brien eras.

My early estimation is that working with Kubiak handcuffed Smith to some extent and that the glimpses we caught of divisiveness toward the end of Kubiak's time could be traced back to Smith trying to be his own man. This is just speculation on my part but early on I think Smith made some mistakes. Clearly there have been picks that just didn't make sense and shouldn't have been made. If you look at the drafts most of the real mistakes early on were on defense.

That makes sense. Kubiak is an OC and in 2006 (When Kubiak was working with Casserly)-2008 we mostly hit on the offensive players we selected. He knew what he wanted and went after it.

On the other side of the ball we had Richard Smith muddling around with no idea what he was doing. I'm sure Rick Smith had input there (starting in 2007) more so than on offense and so we get crap like Amobi Okoye, Fred Bennett, Brandon Harrison, Antwaun Molden, Xavier Adibi, Frank Okam, and Dominique Barber selected.

Lots of missteps in secondary picks and just no sense that they're drafting with a plan on defense. Two years later you switch DC's and get Frank Bush in the house. He's not much better than Richard Smith but he's got a better eye for defensive talent and I imagine Rick is starting to learn some things as well. Brian Cushing, Connor Barwin, Glover Quin, Brice McCain show up. The next year Kareem Jackson, Earl Mitchell, and Darryl Sharpton arrive. Little bit better players than before, still no clue what to do with them but we're not drafting total crap every time we go for a defender anymore.

Wade shows up prior to 2011 and obviously he has way more input than either Richard Smith or Frank Bush had. From that point on I think the defensive picks are all Wade's and Rick isn't getting nearly as much say as before. Basically I lay the 11-13 defensive picks on Wade. Good or bad they're his guys. Rick was a yes man during this period but he must have done something right because he survived the purge. I think he got better at his job.

dc_txtech 05-11-2014 12:53 AM

Re: Rick v BoB
 
I posted this before but I stand behind the fact that Smith is still here and everybody else is gone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_txtech (Post 2325381)
I think the answer is that nobody really knows. I feel like Smith gets credit for all the bad picks and from what I've gathered on the boards the overall mindset seems to be Mario was a Kubiak pick, Okoye was a Smith pick, Duane Brown was a Gibbs pick, not sure who gets credit for Cushing, Kareem Jackson was a Smith pick, Watt was a Phillips pick, and so forth.

I think every pick is a mixture of opinions coming to the best compromise. I know two brothers that are both huge Bills fans and share a fantasy football team in a big money league, both super knowledgeable about the game. I asked them how they make decisions in the draft and they said that they typically agree on most things but if someone felt very strongly about a player they would cede to the strong feeling and draft that player.

This is my best guess as to the drafting style of the Texans. With that being said I don't think that Smith would still have his job if he was pro Akoye and anti Watt for example. If he wasn't right more than he was wrong I don't think Mcnair would be keeping him around. Nobody knows what goes on behind the scenes but Kubiak is gone, Phillips is gone, and Smith is still here. With these being the only facts I have to work with, I have to say that Smith was probably a lot more involved with the good picks than he gets credit for.


Wolf6151 05-11-2014 03:54 AM

Re: Rick v BoB
 
I obviously don't know for sure who was in charge of the draft but that draft sure seemed to take a turn for the worse in the 6th round. The first 5 picks were good/great and the last 5 sucked.

SAMURAITEXAN 05-11-2014 04:22 AM

Re: Rick v BoB
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hervoyel (Post 2338878)
Personally I think Rick Smith is going to surprise a lot of people over the next few years. I don't believe that McNair would have kept him around if he was as worthless as many people in here feel like he is. We're going to see him with a different HC and have a chance to compare and contrast the way things play out between the Smith/Kubiak and Smith/O'Brien eras.

My early estimation is that working with Kubiak handcuffed Smith to some extent and that the glimpses we caught of divisiveness toward the end of Kubiak's time could be traced back to Smith trying to be his own man. This is just speculation on my part but early on I think Smith made some mistakes. Clearly there have been picks that just didn't make sense and shouldn't have been made. If you look at the drafts most of the real mistakes early on were on defense.

That makes sense. Kubiak is an OC and in 2006 (When Kubiak was working with Casserly)-2008 we mostly hit on the offensive players we selected. He knew what he wanted and went after it.

On the other side of the ball we had Richard Smith muddling around with no idea what he was doing. I'm sure Rick Smith had input there (starting in 2007) more so than on offense and so we get crap like Amobi Okoye, Fred Bennett, Brandon Harrison, Antwaun Molden, Xavier Adibi, Frank Okam, and Dominique Barber selected.

Lots of missteps in secondary picks and just no sense that they're drafting with a plan on defense. Two years later you switch DC's and get Frank Bush in the house. He's not much better than Richard Smith but he's got a better eye for defensive talent and I imagine Rick is starting to learn some things as well. Brian Cushing, Connor Barwin, Glover Quin, Brice McCain show up. The next year Kareem Jackson, Earl Mitchell, and Darryl Sharpton arrive. Little bit better players than before, still no clue what to do with them but we're not drafting total crap every time we go for a defender anymore.

Wade shows up prior to 2011 and obviously he has way more input than either Richard Smith or Frank Bush had. From that point on I think the defensive picks are all Wade's and Rick isn't getting nearly as much say as before. Basically I lay the 11-13 defensive picks on Wade. Good or bad they're his guys. Rick was a yes man during this period but he must have done something right because he survived the purge. I think he got better at his job.

A good observation and analyze IMO. Kubiak established relation with McNair prior to Smith's arrival to Houston. Kubiak is the one recommended Smith to McNair. With these reasons and long time relationship between Kubiak and Smith, made Smith more passive kinda GM to Kubiak. Richard Smith and Frank Bush are just like you mentioned.

With Wade Phillips (This name means a lot in Houston including me), how can you argue with the guy who has much more experience than you and got some eyes for the talents. You can learn many things from him.

For Smith/O'Brien era, they really communicated and prepare well for this draft. Seems like O'Brien told Smith what kind of prospects he wants and Smith found those guys while staying true to big boards. This is why this year's draft made much more sense to many of the Texans' fans at least I did.

honored82 05-11-2014 05:15 AM

Re: Rick v BoB
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolf6151 (Post 2338929)
I obviously don't know for sure who was in charge of the draft but that draft sure seemed to take a turn for the worse in the 6th round. The first 5 picks were good/great and the last 5 sucked.

Thats the nature of the draft. The first few rounds are mostly impact players who will last in this league longer, they are famous for their talent and draft is exciting. The late rounds are usually unknowns who dissappear after a few years. Check last couple years drafts after top 100. Very few like Richard sherman make a name for themselves

Thorn 05-11-2014 07:53 AM

Re: Rick v BoB
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Playoffs (Post 2338840)
Watch the interviews. OB repeatedly praised Rick and how easy he was to work with. Rick talked about their common vision regarding prospects. OB was impressed by how Rick stuck to their board. Rick obviously listened and respected OB's opinions on players he liked. CJ Fiedorowicz, for example, where Rick was not there to see his pro day.

Seems to me Rick is deferring a lot to a guy he recognizes as having a good football eye, and OB appreciating to organised way they conducted business. So far, no throwing under the bus moments.

None of us have any freaking idea, but if it were up to me, Playoffs description of how it worked pleases me the most.

Thorn 05-11-2014 09:08 AM

Re: Rick v BoB
 
On the subject, here's a few quotes from O'Brien and Smith

Quote:

Texans general manager Rick Smith and coach Bill O’Brien were upbeat after Mr. Irrelevant had been called and the 2014 NFL draft was complete.

The duo were even joking.

“He’s sick of me,” O’Brien said, referring to his GM.

The new coach emphasized he was only kidding.
Quote:

“One thing I give Rick a lot of credit for is, I’m new to this process as a head football coach,” O’Brien said. “And just watching him during this process stick to the board and the communication he and I have had throughout this process, I think it’s been really good. And so to me, again, that’s what stands out about the whole three days.”
Quote:

Smith didn’t meet with Savage in Pittsburgh. But the GM wanted to exit the draft having seen players through the “same lens” as O’Brien. Their similar take on Savage captured the goal.

“Very much what (O’Brien) described is what I saw,” Smith said. “We see things very similarly.”
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans...ge/#23243101=0

DocBar 05-11-2014 09:41 AM

Re: Rick v BoB
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Playoffs (Post 2338840)
Watch the interviews. OB repeatedly praised Rick and how easy he was to work with. Rick talked about their common vision regarding prospects. OB was impressed by how Rick stuck to their board. Rick obviously listened and respected OB's opinions on players he liked. CJ Fiedorowicz, for example, where Rick was not there to see his pro day.

Seems to me Rick is deferring a lot to a guy he recognizes as having a good football eye, and OB appreciating to organised way they conducted business. So far, no throwing under the bus moments.

I agree with this. Smith has a brand new scouting dept to work with, so who would he trust enough to buck his coaching staff?

infantrycak 05-11-2014 10:03 AM

Re: Rick v BoB
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DocBar (Post 2338974)
I agree with this. Smith has a brand new scouting dept to work with, so who would he trust enough to buck his coaching staff?

When did Smith get a brand new scouting department that he didn't select?

Texian 05-11-2014 10:42 AM

Re: Rick v BoB
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DocBar (Post 2338974)
I agree with this. Smith has a brand new scouting dept to work with, so who would he trust enough to buck his coaching staff?

My recollection of Smith's brand new scouting staff was not long after Rick arrived in Houston.

Smith was an assistant GM in Denver under Shanahan w/ Shanahan having final say. Kubiak was hired long before Smith got here and Gary is on record saying he had final say on the 53 man roster. Smith has bascially learned and trained in the position of working FOR a Head Coach.

Not long after BOB was hired, several interviews were done, with some of BOB's mentors and head coaches. The one consistent and constant piece of advice that was reported BOB received was, "Make sure you're in charge". My guess is that is the case with BOB in Houston, he has final say on the 53 man roster. I don't think McNair had any problem giving BOB final say. As for Rick, it was keep calm and carry on.

As for the draft, I think it is Rick and the scouting staff who do the legwork, homework in gathering information and doing all the due diligence on the players from August through January. In January BOB and staff get involved with Rick and scouting staff. However it is BOB who prioritizes the draft and leaves it to Rick to organize and operate the draft. The final say on who the pick will be, comes from BOB and sometimes Bob. I think it may have been O'Brien trusting in his more seasoned DC Romeo Crennel on the Clowney and Nix picks, more so than Rick. ALL IMHO!


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