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-   -   Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104847)

CloakNNNdagger 04-27-2014 11:07 AM

Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr
 
I hope this is not just another campaign speech. The past dictates that the Texans have a pattern of REPEATING their mistakes.......far beyond the David Carr situation.


Quote:

Posted by Michael David Smith on April 27, 2014, 11:55 AM EDT


In 2002, the Texans used the first draft pick in franchise history on David Carr, who was beaten up while playing on a bad team and never developed into the kind of player Houston wanted him to be. Now the Texans own the first overall pick again, and owner Bob McNair says his team has learned from its mistakes.

McNair says the Texans now realize that a rookie quarterback shouldn’t play until he’s ready, and a veteran quarterback as a placeholder can be a wise investment.

“I think the main thing I look back on is that we should have had a veteran quarterback in there,” McNair said. “We should have let him start the season and let David learn what it takes to be an NFL quarterback.”

That suggests that if the Texans draft a quarterback next week, they’ll be drafting him with the idea that he’ll sit on the bench and learn while Ryan Fitzpatrick or Case Keenum or T.J. Yates opens the season as the starter. McNair also wants to make sure the Texans can provide a young quarterback better protection than the expansion team’s offensive line gave Carr.

“We weren’t able to give Carr the kind of protection we thought he should have,” McNair said. “I don’t put a lot of blame on him.”

If the Texans do draft a quarterback, they have to hope they’re not making excuses for his failures a dozen years down the road.

IDEXAN 04-27-2014 11:20 AM

Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr
 
“We weren’t able to give Carr the kind of protection we thought he should have,” McNair said. “I don’t put a lot of blame on him.”
*****
Is that an apology for screwing up David's career I'm hearing from McNair ? Maybe they are gonna take his little brother so they can make everything right with the Carr family ?

Playoffs 04-27-2014 11:29 AM

Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger (Post 2330263)
Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr

Because David isn't in this year's draft. :mail: :kitten:

texanhead08 04-27-2014 11:41 AM

Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr
 
David isn't blameless in his lack of success, but the organization didn't exactly give him a chance to develop either. The lack of talent on the oline, bad offensive philosophy, and piss poor coaching played a role too.

I remember Steve Mckinney saying that Chris Palmer had our WR's running option routes in 2002 and you already have a rookie QB with a bad expansion team oline and you are running these slow developing plays instead of routes to get the ball out of his hand fast.

TheRealJoker 04-27-2014 12:47 PM

Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr
 
Our OL would've looked a lot different had our bookend OTs not had injury issues.

beerlover 04-27-2014 12:55 PM

Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr
 
Mario Williams wasn't exactly a resounding success either. The top DE since Peppers who they passed on the first time. Fast forward to 2014 does anyone doubt McNair & Company can repeat their mistakes again? seriously it could happen. here's a novel idea how about trading down, haven't tried that before so would not be repeating same mistake again :potkettle:

TheMatrix31 04-27-2014 01:36 PM

Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr
 
I'd still rather have Mario Williams over the other options in 2006.

thunderkyss 04-27-2014 01:51 PM

Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beerlover (Post 2330294)
Mario Williams wasn't exactly a resounding success either. The top DE since Peppers who they passed on the first time. Fast forward to 2014 does anyone doubt McNair & Company can repeat their mistakes again? seriously it could happen. here's a novel idea how about trading down, haven't tried that before so would not be repeating same mistake again :potkettle:

Is there an expectation to win in the locker room?

That's the question to me. If the Texans locker room does not expect to win in 2014, then nothing's changed & whether we take Mario Williams, or David Carr, it won't make a difference.

If they're looking for a QB to give them a chance to win, or their #1 pick to be our defense, we're going down the same road. & unless we get a real special player, there's no way he can live up to that kind of 1-1 expectations.

Texian 04-27-2014 02:03 PM

Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr
 
Sounds like old Bob is doing a little retracting from his December comments, "We are NOT rebuilding, we're a playoff team", statement.

I think there is no coincidence at all that the day after Blake Bortles Pro Day, the Texans signed QB Ryan Fitzpatrick. A veteran with 68 career starts in the NFL. Bob's 4/27 comments and the signing of Fitz go hand in hand. Drafting Bortles is kind of a NO brainer and don't expect to see Blake until the 2nd half of the season at the earliest.

thunderkyss 04-27-2014 02:15 PM

Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr
 
double post

thunderkyss 04-27-2014 02:16 PM

Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Texian (Post 2330312)
Sounds like old Bob is doing a little retracting from his December comments, "We are NOT rebuilding, we're a playoff team", statement.

I think there is no coincidence at all that the day after Blake Bortles Pro Day, the Texans signed QB Ryan Fitzpatrick. A veteran with 68 career starts in the NFL. Bob's 4/27 comments and the signing of Fitz go hand in hand. Drafting Bortles is kind of a NO brainer and don't expect to see Blake until the 2nd half of the season at the earliest.

Help me connect the dots.

How is it not rebuilding if we're not going to make the same mistakes we made with Carr?

How does signing Fitzpatrick a day after Bortles pro day point to drafting Bortles?

Why won't Bortles (or whoever our newest QB will be) not start until the 2nd half of the season? This one puzzles me the most. If it's a protection issue (like Bob says in the article, but I never believed it was a protection issue) what if we have it fixed before we start the season?

What if Borltes proves to give us a better chance to beat Washington (who's going through their own struggles), should we start Fitzpatrick because we paid him "so" much?

What if we're 0-6 thanks to spotty QB play & Bortles is the only healthy QB we have on the roster?

Texian 04-27-2014 02:27 PM

Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderkyss (Post 2330323)
Help me connect the dots. GLADLY

How is it not rebuilding if we're not going to make the same mistakes we made with Carr?

McNair says the Texans now realize that a rookie quarterback shouldn’t play until he’s ready, and a veteran quarterback as a placeholder can be a wise investment......THIS sounds like rebuilding to me.

How does signing Fitzpatrick a day after Bortles pro day point to drafting Bortles?

“I think the main thing I look back on is that we should have had a veteran quarterback in there,” McNair said. “We should have let him (a vet QB) start the season and let David learn what it takes to be an NFL quarterback.”


Why won't Bortles (or whoever our newest QB will be) not start until the 2nd half of the season? This one puzzles me the most. If it's a protection issue (like Bob says in the article, but I never believed it was a protection issue) what if we have it fixed before we start the season?

“We should have let him (a vet QB) start the season and let David learn what it takes to be an NFL quarterback.”


What if Borltes proves to give us a better chance to beat Washington (who's going through their own struggles), should we start Fitzpatrick because we paid him "so" much?

“We should have let him (a vet QB) start the season and let David learn what it takes to be an NFL quarterback.”

What if we're 0-6 thanks to spotty QB play & Bortles is the only healthy QB we have on the roster?

Maybe then....

Playoffs 04-27-2014 02:36 PM

Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by texanhead08 (Post 2330273)
David isn't blameless in his lack of success...

Blameful, imo.

In 2006, the team took 43 sacks total, 41 on Carr (a 5 year starter).

In 2007, the team took 22 sacks total on 60 more attempts.

We added Jordan Black and lost Zach Wiegert (OTs), and our first 4 draft picks were Amobi Okoye, Jacoby Jones, Fred Bennett, and Brandon Harrison.

So was it the offensive line, or was it the QB (Schaub/Rosenfels vs Carr)?

In 2007, Carr took 13 sacks in just 136 attempts for Carolina, a ~10% sack rate. Transposing to 2007 Texans attempts, that would've been 51 sacks.

You'd better draft pocket presence, because its darned near impossible to teach at this level.

thunderkyss 04-27-2014 02:51 PM

Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Texian (Post 2330324)
Maybe then....

I saw your replies... didn't see any answers.

Just because we don't repeat the mistakes made with Carr does not mean we are rebuilding.

Signing Fitzpatrick the day after Bortles pro day does not in any way signal we're taking Bortles over any other QB in this draft.

Our rookie QB will start day 1 if he's ready. Just because Carr wasn't, doesn't mean that Bortles (or whoever we draft) won't be. Three years later, Carr wasn't ready to start, doesn't mean our new QB won't start for three years.

IDEXAN 04-27-2014 02:54 PM

Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beerlover (Post 2330294)
Mario Williams wasn't exactly a resounding success either. The top DE since Peppers who they passed on the first time. Fast forward to 2014 does anyone doubt McNair & Company can repeat their mistakes again? seriously it could happen. here's a novel idea how about trading down, haven't tried that before so would not be repeating same mistake again :potkettle:

But how can you say that when the free agents market rewarded him with the top dollar contract of any defensive player ever at that point in time ? The NFL ultimately is a business, and the market spoke loud and clear about Mario's value when his services became available.

CloakNNNdagger 04-27-2014 03:24 PM

Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IDEXAN (Post 2330330)
But how can you say that when the free agents market rewarded him with the top dollar contract of any defensive player ever at that point in time ? The NFL ultimately is a business, and the market spoke loud and clear about Mario's value when his services became available.

A specific market known for its spoiled goods. I find it very difficult to have listened to a rudderless voice coming out of the wilderness...........the wilderness known as Buffalo. I suspect the Jills have most likely been making most of their important decisions over the years............Now that the Jills are no longer in existence, what will they do?........what will they do?:thinking:

Texian 04-27-2014 03:59 PM

Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderkyss (Post 2330329)
I saw your replies... didn't see any answers.

Just because we don't repeat the mistakes made with Carr does not mean we are rebuilding.

Signing Fitzpatrick the day after Bortles pro day does not in any way signal we're taking Bortles over any other QB in this draft.

Our rookie QB will start day 1 if he's ready. Just because Carr wasn't, doesn't mean that Bortles (or whoever we draft) won't be. Three years later, Carr wasn't ready to start, doesn't mean our new QB won't start for three years.

I'm just going with what Bob said this week, unlike Carr, a Texans rookie QB today, would sit and learn, behind a vet QB. Pretty easy to understand if you ask me.

thunderkyss 04-27-2014 04:08 PM

Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Texian (Post 2330346)
I'm just going with what Bob said this week, unlike Carr, a Texans rookie QB today, would sit and learn, behind a vet QB. Pretty easy to understand if you ask me.

If that's what you said, we would have a different set of questions (as I don't believe that's what McNair said).


But you said that we're rebuilding because we don't want to make the same mistakes we made with Carr.

I'm asking how you connect the two totally irrelevant happenstances.

You said signing Fitzpatrick points to us drafting Bortles...... again two ideas I'd like to understand how you connect.

You said since we're not going to start our young QB until we're able to protect our young QB means our newest QB won't start until some time after the midway point of the season. I'm asking what if we can protect him as early as week 1, or week 2, or week 5, or any time before week 8?

Texian 04-27-2014 04:19 PM

Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderkyss (Post 2330349)
If that's what you said, we would have a different set of questions (as I don't believe that's what McNair said).

Did you not read post #1 and what Bob said in the interview this week with Michael David Smith? If not, return to go and read post 1.

thunderkyss 04-27-2014 04:46 PM

Re: Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger (Post 2330263)
Quote:

Posted by Michael David Smith on April 27, 2014, 11:55 AM EDT


In 2002, the Texans used the first draft pick in franchise history on David Carr, who was beaten up while playing on a bad team and never developed into the kind of player Houston wanted him to be. Now the Texans own the first overall pick again, and owner Bob McNair says his team has learned from its mistakes.

McNair says the Texans now realize that a rookie quarterback shouldn’t play until he’s ready, and a veteran quarterback as a placeholder can be a wise investment.

All this tells me, is that McNair admits that David was not ready. Has absolutely no bearing on whether our next rookie QB is ready or not. However, if he is not ready this statement suggests he will not start.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger (Post 2330263)
Quote:

Posted by Michael David Smith on April 27, 2014, 11:55 AM EDT
“I think the main thing I look back on is that we should have had a veteran quarterback in there,” McNair said. “We should have let him start the season and let David learn what it takes to be an NFL quarterback.”

This is still talking about David Carr. It only pertains to our next QB if he is not ready. If he is ready & the team is good enough to support him it is possible that he'll start like Russell Wilson did, or Andrew Luck, or Matthew Stafford.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger (Post 2330263)
Quote:

Posted by Michael David Smith on April 27, 2014, 11:55 AM EDT
That suggests that if the Texans draft a quarterback next week, they’ll be drafting him with the idea that he’ll sit on the bench and learn while Ryan Fitzpatrick or Case Keenum or T.J. Yates opens the season as the starter. McNair also wants to make sure the Texans can provide a young quarterback better protection than the expansion team’s offensive line gave Carr.

This is where the reporter strays from reporting the news & adds his own commentary. However, McNair's comments do not suggest what he believes at all. They may be drafting him with the idea that he will compete for the starting job. McNair's comments about David Carr have nothing to do with the Texans "ideas" about a new QB, Fitzpatrick, Keenum, or Tj.

If McNair's comments suggests wanting a strong offensive line, that could also have draft implications.
Quote:

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger (Post 2330263)
Quote:

Posted by Michael David Smith on April 27, 2014, 11:55 AM EDT
“We weren’t able to give Carr the kind of protection we thought he should have,” McNair said. “I don’t put a lot of blame on him.”

If the Texans do draft a quarterback, they have to hope they’re not making excuses for his failures a dozen years down the road.

That last statement, the one that starts with "if" also suggests the possibility that the Texans won't draft a QB in the 2014 draft at all. After all, the Texans have not had much success drafting QBs period. But have had success with QBs they've traded for or signing veteran QBs.


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