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-   -   The NFL Front Office Lying Season Is Just Getting Started (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104320)

Playoffs 03-05-2014 07:37 PM

The NFL Front Office Lying Season Is Just Getting Started
 
Great stuff from Gabriel...

Let the Games Begin: The NFL Front Office Lying Season Is Just Getting Started
Quote:

For years I have said to people in the media during draft season that the first thing I have to do when the draft is over is go to confession.

When they ask why, I tell them because "of all the lies I've told."

From the time the combine ends until draft day there is far more misinformation than truth spread throughout the league...

Let me explain...
Quote:

Pre-Draft Visits

Every year each club is allowed to bring in 30 players for updated medicals and interviews. The other clubs in the league know which players are visiting each team.
...
One year, we had pretty much made up our minds on the player we wanted in the first round by January. In February, I made a visit to the school this player was attending to talk to the player and his coaches. In an attempt to not let anyone link that player to us, we didn't...

Last year there was a very similar scenario. Buffalo had a huge need...

Pro Day Workouts

Another example of what clubs do to throw off the rest of the league is make fusses over certain players at their pro day.

When a team is going to take this approach, they have to be consistent.

For example, if their biggest need is at defensive end, then they have to go to all the top defensive end workouts. When they attend these workouts, they don't send one person, they...

Spread Rumors

Club "A" may like a certain player but to create a negative spin on the player they may have a coach or scout discretely say something negative about the prospect to people on other staffs. Those people will of course report that "information" to their superiors in the hopes, for Club "A" that is, that the rumor will spread.

What do they say? Something like this: "I really like this guy, but our doctors say he has a bad knee and we can't touch him." Or, "we have a problem with his ability to learn the scheme."

Clubs have until about a week before the draft to bring in prospects for a medical examination. The last week before the draft is a bit of a quiet period.

A few years ago, one club I know of liked a player but knew he needed a minor surgery before...

Interviews with the media

When ESPN started televising the draft on the early 1980s, former Sports Illustrated writer Paul Zimmerman was always one of the analysts with Mel Kiper and Chris Berman.

Zimmerman had a very good relationship with many coaches and GMs in the NFL. Numerous times during the draft, Zimmerman would say that such and such team was going to take a certain player. He said the coach or GM had told him such in the days leading up to the draft.

Almost 100 percent of the time the team did not select the player Zimmerman thought they would and he would look totally baffled...

What it Means for 2014

Over the next two months there will be plenty of reporting on the draft. We will hear that the "stock" of player A has gone up or down. We will read that certain teams are "in love" with a certain player or they think they are too far back in the order to draft player B.

With the draft being pushed back three weeks this year, there is more time to lie and spread rumors. As you are reading or listening to pre-draft updates or projections or the latest rumor, just remember that what is being said may not be true at all. It's nothing more than what teams want you to believe.

We will find out the real truth on May 8.
<snipped>
read more: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...etting-started

Allstar 03-05-2014 11:54 PM

Re: The NFL Front Office Lying Season Is Just Getting Started
 
Pretty interesting read, confirming what we all know is going on around this time of year. Thanks again Playoffs.

ObsiWan 03-06-2014 08:36 AM

Re: The NFL Front Office Lying Season Is Just Getting Started
 
This is just great.

Anyone affiliated with any team is gonna be lying. Most anyone affiliated with any network, radio talk show, or publication is a genius or an idiot with an agenda (depending on who they rate good or bad :) ).

...and Bill O'Brien ain't talking.

What the hell are we supposed to do?
:kitten:

NCTexan 03-06-2014 10:27 AM

Re: The NFL Front Office Lying Season Is Just Getting Started
 
Rep to you Playoffs. Again.

This is why when everyone was saying "Oh! The Browns will trade with us for Manziel at 1!" I just sighed.

Playoffs 03-06-2014 10:30 AM

Re: The NFL Front Office Lying Season Is Just Getting Started
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ObsiWan (Post 2308343)
What the hell are we supposed to do?
:kitten:

Pretend we want the Texans to draft Johnny Football when we prefer a different player or trade out of 1-1. I'd like us to only draft Coastal Carolina Chanticleers, myself.

cland 03-06-2014 10:52 AM

Re: The NFL Front Office Lying Season Is Just Getting Started
 
This is why I think the Texans' may be drafting Bridgewater, for all the rumors regarding the team to a specific player (Manziel, Bortles, Clowney) I haven't read an article quoting a 'Texans team insider' lthat links them to Teddy Bridgewater....

It's quiet around these here parts......too quiet!

TexansFTW 03-06-2014 04:44 PM

Re: The NFL Front Office Lying Season Is Just Getting Started
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cland (Post 2308389)
This is why I think the Texans' may be drafting Bridgewater, for all the rumors regarding the team to a specific player (Manziel, Bortles, Clowney) I haven't read an article quoting a 'Texans team insider' lthat links them to Teddy Bridgewater....

It's quiet around these here parts......too quiet!

I believe this too.

I liken this a little bit to fantasy football. I play play in a league with friends whom we all hang out together outside the season. As much as I want to just tell my friends how I feel and why, I try with every ounce of me to lie through my teeth.

I never try to give any idea who I am targeting, when, or why. This to me, (NFL Draft) is just a MUCH higher and costlier playing field than I have the resources to be a part of.

thunderkyss 03-06-2014 07:19 PM

Re: The NFL Front Office Lying Season Is Just Getting Started
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Playoffs (Post 2308208)

We need to spread some rumors about what St.Louis plans on doing. It's been way to quite. We need to get people thinking St.Louis wants their guy & they need to make a deal with us to snag him.

drs23 03-06-2014 07:52 PM

Re: The NFL Front Office Lying Season Is Just Getting Started
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ObsiWan (Post 2308343)
This is just great.

Anyone affiliated with any team is gonna be lying. Most anyone affiliated with any network, radio talk show, or publication is a genius or an idiot with an agenda (depending on who they rate good or bad :) ).

...and Bill O'Brien ain't talking.

What the hell are we supposed to do?
:kitten:

Sodium Pentathol and some panty droppers? :kitten: :kitten:

ArlingtonTexan 03-06-2014 08:55 PM

Re: The NFL Front Office Lying Season Is Just Getting Started
 
Reads like giant game of poker:

slow playing, bluffing, misdirection, reading other teams tells...oh and sometimes the best lie is the truth.

ObsiWan 03-07-2014 05:19 PM

Re: The NFL Front Office Lying Season Is Just Getting Started
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drs23 (Post 2308642)
Sodium Pentathol and some panty droppers? :kitten: :kitten:

There are certain situations you might not want full cooperation mixed in with the complete truth.
This has the potential to be one of those situations.
:)

ArlingtonTexan 03-09-2014 07:10 PM

Re: The NFL Front Office Lying Season Is Just Getting Started
 
this is from a poster of the fantasy football forum footballguys.com (if nothing else it is entertaining concerning the possible world lies and media manipulation)

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum...#entry16606866

- McCain released the story as a favor to the Texans in trade for other insider info he's received in the past. ( This is how "insiders" around the league are really "information brokers", on the premise that nothing is free and the media, by extension, becomes part of the ruse, deception, dog and pony show. Information is not "free", you are expected to help the franchise during this time of year to push one story or another to push one agenda or another. This is the one time of year that "lying" is acceptable from organization to organization and not taken personally during the NFL season. it's this kind of back room type dealing that gets journalists close enough to teams to get access to do a book, which can be far more lucrative overall i.e. Jeff Pearlman and his Cowboys book. )...



- Word out on the trade, info not coming out of NE, that Patriots wanted a 3rd rounder that would turn to a 2nd rounder based on Mallett's number of starts/production benchmarks with Houston. Along with a handshake agreement not to pursue Julian Edelman. Houston, in exchange, offered two 4ths, one completely conditional on playing benchmarks, and no promise at all regarding Edelman.

- Mallett would be seen as bridge QB1 with good upside and would have to take a team friendly extension, knows O'Brien and system. If trade doesn't work, still works as bait for Atlanta. New England plays along because it profiles Mallett for other potential trade opportunities. Possible win/win if Houston makes the trade and win/win if Houston doesn't.

Playoffs 03-09-2014 08:16 PM

Re: The NFL Front Office Lying Season Is Just Getting Started
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan (Post 2309817)
- McClain released the story as a favor to the Texans in trade for other insider info he's received in the past. ( This is how "insiders" around the league are really "information brokers", on the premise that nothing is free and the media, by extension, becomes part of the ruse, deception, dog and pony show. Information is not "free", you are expected to help the franchise during this time of year to push one story or another to push one agenda or another...)

Huh? McClain only trades for food.
Quote:

4) Cleveland - Watkins/Manziel ( still in mix for possible Kaepernick deal)
So 49ers are dumping Kaepernick. :thinking:
Quote:

Colts, Ryan Grigson is GMINO ( GM In Name Only)
Uh huh...
Quote:

Do not shoot the messenger.
http://forddieselpower.com/forums/im...lies/jalth.gif
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e3...ie/laugh-1.gif

TexansFTW 03-10-2014 11:12 AM

Re: The NFL Front Office Lying Season Is Just Getting Started
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan (Post 2309817)
- Word out on the trade, info not coming out of NE, that Patriots wanted a 3rd rounder that would turn to a 2nd rounder based on Mallett's number of starts/production benchmarks with Houston. Along with a handshake agreement not to pursue Julian Edelman. Houston, in exchange, offered two 4ths, one completely conditional on playing benchmarks, and no promise at all regarding Edelman.

- Mallett would be seen as bridge QB1 with good upside and would have to take a team friendly extension, knows O'Brien and system. If trade doesn't work, still works as bait for Atlanta. New England plays along because it profiles Mallett for other potential trade opportunities. Possible win/win if Houston makes the trade and win/win if Houston doesn't.

This right here I would be down with no doubt. People think I hate Ryan Mallett because I don't want to give up a 2nd for the guy. Whatever. I'm NOT down to give up the #33 overall pick for a guy that hasn't done anything and is gonna demand starting QB money.

He hasn't impressed in preseason in 3 years and in regular season is 1/4 with 17 passing yards and an INT with -9 rushing yards in 3 years and was 'just OK' at his Pro Day THIS year. 4th rounders though? I can get down to this dance, we blow those all the time anyways.

thunderkyss 03-10-2014 12:18 PM

Re: The NFL Front Office Lying Season Is Just Getting Started
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TexansFTW (Post 2310067)
This right here I would be down with no doubt. People think I hate Ryan Mallett because I don't want to give up a 2nd for the guy. Whatever. I'm NOT down to give up the #33 overall pick for a guy that hasn't done anything and is gonna demand starting QB money.

What if you can get him for 1st overall money? Eric Fisher signed a 4 year deal for $22M last season. I wouldn't mind giving him something like that, with a fat roster bonus on year three.... $20M, making it a $44M contract, making it lucrative for him, but advantageous to us to cut him in year 3, with little blowback.

That only gives him two years to prove he is a starter, but we're going on his 4th NFL season.

TexansFTW 03-10-2014 12:44 PM

Re: The NFL Front Office Lying Season Is Just Getting Started
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderkyss (Post 2310128)
What if you can get him for 1st overall money? Eric Fisher signed a 4 year deal for $22M last season. I wouldn't mind giving him something like that, with a fat roster bonus on year three.... $20M, making it a $44M contract, making it lucrative for him, but advantageous to us to cut him in year 3, with little blowback.

That only gives him two years to prove he is a starter, but we're going on his 4th NFL season.

My biggest problem is the pick. I have him valued at a mid 3rd player, right about where he was drafted, but we don't get those cheap years to mold him. The Patriots did, and he doesn't look much different than he did coming out.

Either way, you're almost never going to get a young QB (with even a little bit of promise) to take a contract that basically spells out being cut with little blowback in year 3. IFF someone trades for and signs him, that team is gonna feel it. I envision a 4 year/34 million type deal. I repeat IFF someone trades for him.

Who am I though, just a speculating guy. You might be right, who knows.

infantrycak 03-10-2014 03:08 PM

Re: The NFL Front Office Lying Season Is Just Getting Started
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TexansFTW (Post 2310145)
Either way, you're almost never going to get a young QB (with even a little bit of promise) to take a contract that basically spells out being cut with little blowback in year 3. IFF someone trades for and signs him, that team is gonna feel it. I envision a 4 year/34 million type deal. I repeat IFF someone trades for him.

Do you have examples of trades for this proposition because that is a much different scenario than FA? In a trade they are going to get to start and a big raise before they otherwise would. Schaub could have been cut after two years with almost no ill effect.

I'll preempt Cassel. First he had a year of "proof" before being traded. Second the Chiefs structured his deal to eat up money so they could get up to spending the minimum amount.

TexansFTW 03-10-2014 04:05 PM

Re: The NFL Front Office Lying Season Is Just Getting Started
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by infantrycak (Post 2310210)
Do you have examples of trades for this proposition because that is a much different scenario than FA? In a trade they are going to get to start and a big raise before they otherwise would. Schaub could have been cut after two years with almost no ill effect.

I'll preempt Cassel. First he had a year of "proof" before being traded. Second the Chiefs structured his deal to eat up money so they could get up to spending the minimum amount.

Can't give any examples if it hasn't been done except the 2 times you mentioned in the last like 8 years. There's probably more, but I don't know them off the top of my head. Jay Cutler trade is probably too proven for this conversation. I guess you can also mention Whitehurst, but he was never nearly as regarded and was never able to overcome Matt Hasselbeck, but yeah, his contract sucked. I won't really use that for this though.

QBs get paid a helluva lot more today than they did in 2007 also. Flynn had 1 good game and cost $26/3, obviously they cut him though. My 4 year / 34 example had no guaranteed money structure for cutting him, but I doubt it would come punishment free if we cut him prior to year 3.

This is all just a what if scenario anyway though.

infantrycak 03-10-2014 05:43 PM

Re: The NFL Front Office Lying Season Is Just Getting Started
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TexansFTW (Post 2310249)
QBs get paid a helluva lot more today than they did in 2007 also.

I am not disputing that at all. What I am saying is I see no reason the structure, not the absolute dollar number, cannot be similar - around half of what a top 10 QB makes structured such that there is minimal impact in dead money to cut after 2 years, i.e. the signing bonus for a similar sized contract for an established QB divided into a signing bonus and a roster bonus in year 3 or something to achieve a similar result.

Playoffs 03-10-2014 05:52 PM

Re: The NFL Front Office Lying Season Is Just Getting Started
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by infantrycak (Post 2310320)
I am not disputing that at all. What I am saying is I see no reason the structure, not the absolute dollar number, cannot be similar - around half of what a top 10 QB makes structured such that there is minimal impact in dead money to cut after 2 years, i.e. the signing bonus for a similar sized contract for an established QB divided into a signing bonus and a roster bonus in year 3 or something to achieve a similar result.

Seeing more and more contracts designed around this philosophy -- front loaded, pay for play, easier outs.


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