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-   -   Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103884)

CloakNNNdagger 01-24-2014 06:42 AM

Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League
 
According OVER THE CAP.COM numbers, there's going to have to be a lot of shuffling and creativity. Note the Colts and Jags numbers.
Quote:

2014 Salary Cap Space Update- Jan 22
by jason

I figure every week in which there are some salary updates to post I’ll post estimates for the salary cap space for each team in 2014. The estimates include estimated carryover totals from 2013, savings from voidable contracts, and all escalators that have been earned thus far. Futures contracts are also included and most teams are at the top 51 figure already. The numbers don’t include adjustments for LTBEs/NLTBEs, grievances, etc…but they should give a fair estimate as to where teams stand heading into 2014.

Per my estimates four teams will be over the salary cap and two teams (Chargers and Rams) are both so close that they may be over the cap. Another 9 teams should have less than $10 million in room and are teams that may need changes. If you want to see how many free agents the various teams have, you can check out this post from Jan 14 that details the free agents by team. Any questions feel free to email or post in the comments.


Team Contracts Est. Adjusted Cap Estimated Cap Space
Raiders 50 $128,732,661 $61,556,390
Jaguars 51 $145,945,313 $50,856,859
Browns 51 $150,837,568 $45,557,017
Colts 51 $126,907,910 $33,940,530
Dolphins 49 $144,364,087 $32,523,028
Redskins 51 $127,669,236 $27,893,929
Packers 51 $136,120,458 $27,655,575
Bengals 51 $135,416,604 $24,702,456
Vikings 51 $127,112,313 $23,549,568
Eagles 51 $143,469,767 $20,870,691
Jets 51 $127,773,437 $20,169,558
Bills 51 $144,426,975 $19,887,485
Broncos 47 $134,256,880 $17,805,118
Panthers 51 $137,912,268 $13,940,772
Giants 51 $126,317,447 $13,219,473
Buccaneers 51 $133,069,781 $12,043,336
Ravens 47 $127,831,423 $11,396,102
49ers 51 $128,475,038 $7,138,511
Falcons 51 $129,435,467 $6,859,837
Patriots 51 $130,324,801 $6,845,171
Titans 51 $133,253,561 $6,656,952
Bears 46 $127,096,726 $5,625,725
Seahawks 45 $129,145,003 $3,011,926
Cardinals 51 $132,050,006 $2,455,586
Texans 51 $127,382,080 $2,146,650
Chiefs 51 $128,781,515 $1,346,628
Rams 51 $126,472,529 $790,846
Chargers 51 $128,619,342 ($462,912)
Lions 51 $127,774,552 ($5,332,206)
Saints 51 $126,923,917 ($11,990,654)
Steelers 51 $127,652,450 ($12,471,398)
Cowboys 51 $127,580,694 ($22,681,516)

thunderkyss 01-24-2014 07:11 AM

That, I believe is the primary reason Matt Schaub won't be back next season & will be a June 1st cut. That immediately adds $11M to our cap this season, $10M to our cap for 2015, & $19M to our cap for 2016.

It's a no brainer to me.

I also don't believe Rick Smith screwed up our cap. We were a Super Bowl contender before the season started. Patriots, 9ers, & Falcon aren't far from us.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

TEXANRED 01-24-2014 07:22 AM

Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League
 
I guess I don't understand how the Jags have $145M in cap space and we have $127M.

dsorc 01-24-2014 07:30 AM

Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TEXANRED (Post 2290233)
I guess I don't understand how the Jags have $145M in cap space and we have $127M.

Probably due to cap carryover, which is when unused cap from previous years moves to the future year. That would also be a sign that ownership is unwilling to use up all their cap space.

Texian 01-24-2014 07:37 AM

Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League
 
There will be restructuring. There will be borrowing money from 2015 & 2016 to pay for 2014. There will be more of the same.

FYI - If the Texans cut Schaub and Foster and accounted for all Dead Money in 2014, the Texans would begin 2015 $50 million under the cap in 2015.

TEXANS84 01-24-2014 10:04 AM

Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League
 
That's ridiculous that the Colts have that much cap space.

Look for player purging by the Saints and Cowboys, or some severe restructuring.

Big Lou 01-24-2014 10:26 AM

Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dsorc (Post 2290235)
Probably due to cap carryover, which is when unused cap from previous years moves to the future year. That would also be a sign that ownership is unwilling to use up all their cap space.

There is a limitation to how much you can carryover, and the CBA stipulates a cap floor, teams gave to spend a certain amount. I just can't see how the Colts have that kind of room.

ChampionTexan 01-24-2014 10:44 AM

Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Lou (Post 2290293)
There is a limitation to how much you can carryover, and the CBA stipulates a cap floor, teams gave to spend a certain amount. I just can't see how the Colts have that kind of room.

Please elaborate on the limitations to the carryover amounts, as I'm not familiar with them.

Also, while there is a floor in place, it doesn't have to be met on a yearly basis. It basically applies to the four year period ending with the 2016 season. It does require that a minimum of 89% of the cap be spent over that period, but since compliance with that 89% amount isn't required until the end of that cumulative period, it makes the concept of a floor in any one specific year non-applicable.

thunderkyss 01-24-2014 10:54 AM

Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Texian (Post 2290238)
There will be restructuring. There will be borrowing money from 2015 & 2016 to pay for 2014. There will be more of the same.

FYI - If the Texans cut Schaub and Foster and accounted for all Dead Money in 2014, the Texans would begin 2015 $50 million under the cap in 2015.

Ok..... I'm being serious here. Obviously I don't understand what you are saying... but I would love to. Are you saying we should never offer a signing bonus to the players we intend to sign?

I ask, because that is the only "dead money" to speak of in the Texans' cap figure.

Looking at the Patriots numbers & ours don't seem much different, player for player. We're just paying our players more, imo our players "deserve" more.

The Patriots only have 4 players with a cap number over $6M, we've got 8. They've got about $8M, we've got $3M. Their number doesn't include Talib who made $4.8M last year (if the Pats sign him for next year with a $5M cap number, the Patriots would be at $3M under the cap).

What am I not seeing that you do?

steelbtexan 01-24-2014 10:57 AM

Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TEXANS84 (Post 2290280)
That's ridiculous that the Colts have that much cap space.

Look for player purging by the Saints and Cowboys, or some severe restructuring.

Having that kinda cap space and having Luck is going to make the Colts SB contenders for yrs to come.

The reason the Texans are in the cap shape they are in is because Rick misread how much the cap would be going up and wrongly thought Schaub was the man to lead the Texans to a SB. Along with not realizing that that Gary had run Foster into the ground. (He should have realized this. Plenty of people on this MB predicted the fall of Foster.)

Thanks Rick

Dutchrudder 01-24-2014 11:03 AM

Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderkyss (Post 2290321)
Ok..... I'm being serious here. Obviously I don't understand what you are saying... but I would love to. Are you saying we should never offer a signing bonus to the players we intend to sign?

I ask, because that is the only "dead money" to speak of in the Texans' cap figure.

Looking at the Patriots numbers & ours don't seem much different, player for player. We're just paying our players more, imo our players "deserve" more.

The Patriots only have 4 players with a cap number over $6M, we've got 8. They've got about $8M, we've got $3M. Their number doesn't include Talib who made $4.8M last year (if the Pats sign him for next year with a $5M cap number, the Patriots would be at $3M under the cap).

What am I not seeing that you do?

The difference is that they put 18m a year towards a HOF QB, while we continue to pay 10-15m a year for a HOF WR who has ****ty QBs throwing to him.

That and their coach routinely finds quality starters from other teams castoffs. That's the difference.

Texian 01-24-2014 11:45 AM

Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderkyss (Post 2290321)
Ok..... I'm being serious here. Obviously I don't understand what you are saying... but I would love to. Are you saying we should never offer a signing bonus to the players we intend to sign?

I ask, because that is the only "dead money" to speak of in the Texans' cap figure.

Looking at the Patriots numbers & ours don't seem much different, player for player. We're just paying our players more, imo our players "deserve" more.

The Patriots only have 4 players with a cap number over $6M, we've got 8. They've got about $8M, we've got $3M. Their number doesn't include Talib who made $4.8M last year (if the Pats sign him for next year with a $5M cap number, the Patriots would be at $3M under the cap).

What am I not seeing that you do?

Here is what I am saying, on average each NFL team allocates approx. $5 million each year to cover IR replacements, practice squad and LTBEs (Likely to Be Earned, Incentives). Taking this into account that leaves the Texans roughly $3 million over the cap. The Texans will also have approx 15 contracts to replace due to the number of players lost in free agency this year. The Texans do not have the salary cap space to spend the money needed to replace any lost players with equal or better talent. Once again the Texans will have to make due with signing vet minimum, rookie contracts and the draft to complete their rosters. The Texans will also restructure some contracts (borrow money form future years) in order to have enough money to pay for their 53 man roster/contracts.

In Regards to Schaub and Foster, if the Texans were to allocate all dead money to the 2014 season that would allow them to take their full amount off the 2015 books, $17 mil for Schaub and $9 mil for Foster. Manning and Daniels are 2015 free agents so their $6 mil salaries come off the 2015 books also. This would allow the Texans to start 2015 roughly $50 million or more under the 2015 salary cap.

Signing bonuses are OK but the bottom line with any contract is the Guaranteed Money. Back loading contracts is what destroys Salary Caps. Ideally contracts should be constructed with as much front end money as possible.

This scenario is the same scenario and pattern of behavior used by the Texans the last two years. As a result the Texans teams have deteriorated since 2011 because of attrition. The Texans have not had the available money to use in free agency to replace starters and good back ups. Instead they've had to make due with minimum contracts and the drafts. Drafts have been disappointing especially after round 1. As a result starters have been replaced with lesser talent, along 2nd team backups. This lesser talent also has a direct diverse affect on the Special Teams. That in a nutshell is the story of your Houston Texans today and why each year for the last two years they have become less competitive with each passing year.

Texian 01-24-2014 11:50 AM

Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by steelbtexan (Post 2290324)
Having that kinda cap space and having Luck is going to make the Colts SB contenders for yrs to come.

The reason the Texans are in the cap shape they are in is because Rick misread how much the cap would be going up and wrongly thought Schaub was the man to lead the Texans to a SB. Along with not realizing that that Gary had run Foster into the ground. (He should have realized this. Plenty of people on this MB predicted the fall of Foster.)

Thanks Rick

Something I have been saying since 2010. Many and most accuse me of being a Debbie Downer, making wild predictions, a hater and host of other derogatory terms. I say it's not wild predictions, alternative histories or anything else, I am simply doing the math.

76Texan 01-24-2014 01:35 PM

Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TEXANS84 (Post 2290280)
That's ridiculous that the Colts have that much cap space.

Look for player purging by the Saints and Cowboys, or some severe restructuring.

Think of it this way.
The Texans had guys on IR for most of the years that account for some $22-26M in cap space last year (Foster, Manning, OD, and Cushing.)

If none of these guys ever played a down last year, does it many any difference?
Hey, if Schaub didn't count in cap space like he didn't count on the field, the Texans would have had tons of cap space.

Currently, Overthecap is counting guys with active contracts.
The Colts have more FAs that they need to resign to have the same team as last year.

By the time all is said and done, the numbers for both teams will be closer.
The Colts took their lump in 2011-12; they are on a different cycle, that's all.

In a few years when guys Luck, Castonzo, Hilton, Allen, Fleener (to name a few) need a big pay check to retain, it will be a different story.

Number19 01-24-2014 02:00 PM

Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Texian (Post 2290349)
...The Texans will also have approx 15 contracts to replace due to the number of players lost in free agency this year. The Texans do not have the salary cap space to spend the money needed to replace any lost players with equal or better talent. Once again the Texans will have to make due with signing vet minimum, rookie contracts and the draft to complete their rosters. The Texans will also restructure some contracts (borrow money form future years) in order to have enough money to pay for their 53 man roster/contracts...the Texans teams have deteriorated since 2011 because of attrition. The Texans have not had the available money to use in free agency to replace starters and good back ups. Instead they've had to make due with minimum contracts and the drafts. Drafts have been disappointing especially after round 1. As a result starters have been replaced with lesser talent, along 2nd team backups. This lesser talent also has a direct diverse affect on the Special Teams. That in a nutshell is the story of your Houston Texans today...

Great explanation.

You've just made my argument supporting trading down from our 1-1 pick to acquire additional high draft picks, rather than betting the farm on a QB with that first pick and supported by insufficient talent around him.

It goes without saying that the new coaching staff must do a better job in evaluating the draft talent.

thunderkyss 01-24-2014 02:03 PM

Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by steelbtexan (Post 2290324)
Having that kinda cap space and having Luck is going to make the Colts SB contenders for yrs to come.

The reason the Texans are in the cap shape they are in is because Rick misread how much the cap would be going up and wrongly thought Schaub was the man to lead the Texans to a SB. Along with not realizing that that Gary had run Foster into the ground. (He should have realized this. Plenty of people on this MB predicted the fall of Foster.)

Thanks Rick

Not a big Rick Smith fan, If I had my way, I'd have fired him in2010 & kept Kubiak..... that said, Schaub was well on his way in 2011 into making Rick Smith look like a smart man. Had we finished the season the way he started, we get to the AFC Championship game, possibly the Super Bowl... Rick would've looked like a genius.

I agree that a good GM will be right on those kinds of gambles & Rick has a very poor history with them (OD, Foster, Cushing).... so that's one thing. But I don't know we can blame Slick Rick (WD40) for Kubiak running Foster into the ground (happened after Rick paid him) or for Jamal Charles doing the what he was taught to do.

I still think the structure of Schaub's contract was just a hair short of genius. It gave Matt two years (2012, 2013) to prove he is an elite QB before we were paying him elite QB money ($14M cap numbers). We've got an out, we can cut him now & realize a net gain.

I bet you dollars to donuts Ozzie offered Flacco a similar deal & he wishes Flacco would have took it.

thunderkyss 01-24-2014 02:04 PM

Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder (Post 2290330)
The difference is that they put 18m a year towards a HOF QB, while we continue to pay 10-15m a year for a HOF WR who has ****ty QBs throwing to him.

That and their coach routinely finds quality starters from other teams castoffs. That's the difference.

Very good point, but not the point Texian is arguing.

Big Lou 01-24-2014 02:51 PM

Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChampionTexan (Post 2290313)
Please elaborate on the limitations to the carryover amounts, as I'm not familiar with them.

Also, while there is a floor in place, it doesn't have to be met on a yearly basis. It basically applies to the four year period ending with the 2016 season. It does require that a minimum of 89% of the cap be spent over that period, but since compliance with that 89% amount isn't required until the end of that cumulative period, it makes the concept of a floor in any one specific year non-applicable.

Man I must have made that up. I could have sworn I read where teams could only carry over a certain amount of cap money left over. After searching I see teams that have carried like 24 million over. I'm suprised no one has tanked like 3-4 years in a row just to bank a lot of cash and make a big run.

I wonder if you have carry over you have to spend that the following season or you lose it.

badboy 01-24-2014 03:44 PM

Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Lou (Post 2290442)
Man I must have made that up. I could have sworn I read where teams could only carry over a certain amount of cap money left over. After searching I see teams that have carried like 24 million over. I'm suprised no one has tanked like 3-4 years in a row just to bank a lot of cash and make a big run.

I wonder if you have carry over you have to spend that the following season or you lose it.

You might have been thinking when the new CBA was signed a small amount $2-3 m IIRC was allowed to re-sign a FA vet that was above the cap limit. This was allowed for two seasons, I think. Texans did not use.

thunderkyss 01-24-2014 04:47 PM

Re: Texans' Cap space......and the rest of the League
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Texian (Post 2290349)
Here is what I am saying, on average each NFL team allocates approx. $5 million each year to cover IR replacements, practice squad and LTBEs (Likely to Be Earned, Incentives). Taking this into account that leaves the Texans roughly $3 million over the cap. The Texans will also have approx 15 contracts to replace due to the number of players lost in free agency this year. The Texans do not have the salary cap space to spend the money needed to replace any lost players with equal or better talent. Once again the Texans will have to make due with signing vet minimum, rookie contracts and the draft to complete their rosters. The Texans will also restructure some contracts (borrow money form future years) in order to have enough money to pay for their 53 man roster/contracts.

So how's that different than the Patriots? Like I said, we've got twice as many players with a $6M+ cap number than they do & they've only got $5M more than we've got. If Talib was signed for another year, they would be in the same boat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texian (Post 2290349)
Signing bonuses are OK but the bottom line with any contract is the Guaranteed Money. Back loading contracts is what destroys Salary Caps. Ideally contracts should be constructed with as much front end money as possible.

I do not agree with this. Back loaded contracts, to me, is like money in that bank. The mistake, I think, is letting these guys play out those portions of their contracts. Mario for instance, the Texans should have known (& probably did) what they valued Mario at before the 2011 season, he never should have been allowed to play for $18M, that money should have been converted to a bonus & Mario extended for at least 4 years.

I like Mario, but there's no way he was worth an $18M salary or cap hit. If we couldn't reach a deal, I would have tried to trade him. No other team would have wanted to pay the $18M, but they could have worked out a new contract, just like we did with Schaub. He could have been a Patriot, for a lot less than $96M.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texian (Post 2290349)
This scenario is the same scenario and pattern of behavior used by the Texans the last two years. As a result the Texans teams have deteriorated since 2011 because of attrition. The Texans have not had the available money to use in free agency to replace starters and good back ups. Instead they've had to make due with minimum contracts and the drafts. Drafts have been disappointing especially after round 1. As a result starters have been replaced with lesser talent, along 2nd team backups. This lesser talent also has a direct diverse affect on the Special Teams. That in a nutshell is the story of your Houston Texans today and why each year for the last two years they have become less competitive with each passing year.

I'm still not seeing it. I can see how you've allowed several facts to add up to a particular result.... but that deterioration has more to do (in my mind) with Schaub second guessing himself, Foster's back issues, & Cushing's knee than it does with an inability to sign quality free agents or replace starters. Kj, Manning, Swearinger, & Jjo were a big part of our problem in 2013 & we paid a pretty penny for each one of them.

Then you take into account that our 2nd round pick (Ben Tate) didn't perform as well as the bum New England picked up off the street (Lagarrett Blount) regardless of the reason.....

Matt Schaub & our secondary, if they'd have played up to their contracts, 2013 would have played out a lot differently. That doesn't sound like mismanaging the salary cap... not the way you're saying. I can understand people who say we spent to much on Schaub or that we shouldn't have extended him & had a replacement in place since 2010. But what you're saying doesn't make sense.


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