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silvrhand 01-08-2014 03:16 PM

Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?
 
Question,

Does anyone know what type of offense Bill O'Brien is likely to use? My main concern is our offensive line for so many years are smaller more athletic and we have a considerable investment in 2 of them, and our running back is very geared towards the zone based running game, which we have another large investement in.

Thoughts on how this will work out?

- John

badboy 01-08-2014 03:21 PM

Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by silvrhand (Post 2282179)
Question,

Does anyone know what type of offense Bill O'Brien is likely to use? My main concern is our offensive line for so many years are smaller more athletic and we have a considerable investment in 2 of them, and our running back is very geared towards the zone based running game, which we have another large investement in.

Thoughts on how this will work out?

- John

With exception of Myers the rest of Oline are big boys that could play in a power type O. If Ben Jones can handle the less complex center in a Power, I'm all for allowing Myers to go saving $ and giving Jones reps.

Double Barrel 01-08-2014 03:37 PM

Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?
 
If it's anything like the Patriots, here's a good article for you:

Quote:

Speak My Language

As the players and schemes have changed, it's the way the Patriots talk that's continued their offensive dominance

[EXCERPT]

New England's offense is a member of the NFL's third offensive family, the Erhardt-Perkins system. The offense was named after the two men, Ron Erhardt and Ray Perkins, who developed it while working for the Patriots under head coach Chuck Fairbanks in the 1970s. According to Perkins, it was assembled in the same way most such systems are developed. "I don't look at it as us inventing it," he explained. "I look at it as a bunch of coaches sitting in rooms late at night organizing and getting things together to help players be successful."

The backbone of the Erhardt-Perkins system is that plays pass plays in particular are not organized by a route tree or by calling a single receiver's route, but by what coaches refer to as "concepts." Each play has a name, and that name conjures up an image for both the quarterback and the other players on offense. And, most importantly, the concept can be called from almost any formation or set. Who does what changes, but the theory and tactics driving the play do not. "In essence, you're running the same play," said Perkins. "You're just giving them some window-dressing to make it look different."

The biggest advantage of the concept-based system is that it operates from the perspective of the most critical player on offense: the quarterback. In other systems, even if the underlying principles are the exact same, the play and its name might be very different. Rather than juggling all this information in real time, an Erhardt-Perkins quarterback only has to read a given arrangement of receivers. "You can cut down on the plays and get different looks from your formations and who's in them. It's easier for the players to learn. It's easier for the quarterback to learn," former Patriots offensive coordinator Charlie Weis said back in 2000. "You get different looks without changing his reads. You don't need an open-ended number of plays."

Full article

infantrycak 01-08-2014 03:43 PM

Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badboy (Post 2282186)
With exception of Myers the rest of Oline are big boys that could play in a power type O. If Ben Jones can handle the less complex center in a Power, I'm all for allowing Myers to go saving $ and giving Jones reps.

Why are you going with your hopes when there is an answer already at hand?

silvrhnd - they have hired an OL coach, Brian Ferentz. He is the son of Kirk Ferentz (who interviewed for the Texans HC position in 2006) current Iowa HC (where he coached Brian). They are ZBS disciples. This is not surprising since the Patriots are a zone based team.

The Patriots center is 6'2" 275 lbs.

mussop 01-08-2014 05:02 PM

Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by infantrycak (Post 2282199)
Why are you going with your hopes when there is an answer already at hand?

silvrhnd - they have hired an OL coach, Brian Ferentz. He is the son of Kirk Ferentz (who interviewed for the Texans HC position in 2006) current Iowa HC (where he coached Brian). They are ZBS disciples. This is not surprising since the Patriots are a zone based team.

The Patriots center is 6'2" 275 lbs.

I didn't realize there is two Ferentze's. I thought we were getting the one we interviewed in 2006.

IDEXAN 01-08-2014 05:56 PM

Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by infantrycak (Post 2282199)
Why are you going with your hopes when there is an answer already at hand?

silvrhnd - they have hired an OL coach, Brian Ferentz. He is the son of Kirk Ferentz (who interviewed for the Texans HC position in 2006) current Iowa HC (where he coached Brian). They are ZBS disciples. This is not surprising since the Patriots are a zone based team.

The Patriots center is 6'2" 275 lbs.

Got any documentation to back that up ? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's just that I was unsuccessful in finding any definitive explanation of the Hawkeyes offense being operated with a preference for either a Power or a Zone Blocking scheme.

The Pencil Neck 01-08-2014 06:04 PM

Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IDEXAN (Post 2282245)
Got any documentation to back that up ? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's just that I was unsuccessful in finding any definitive explanation of the Hawkeyes offense being operated with a preference for either a Power or a Zone Blocking scheme.

Well, I don't know how reliable this is but:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_blocking

Quote:

1995-2009: Denver Broncos [HC Mike Shanahan and Josh McDaniels (kept scheme in first year)]
1999-Present: University of Iowa [HC Kirk Ferentz]
2001-2007: West Virginia University [HC Rich Rodriguez]
2001-2008: Bowling Green State University [HC Urban Meyer and Gregg Brandon]
2002-2006: University of Minnesota [HC Glen Mason]
2003-2004: University of Utah [HC Urban Meyer]
2004-2006: Atlanta Falcons [HC Jim L. Mora]
2005-2010: University of Florida [HC Urban Meyer]
2005-2009: University of Notre Dame [HC Charlie Weis]
2006-2010: University of Michigan [HC Lloyd Carr and Rich Rodriguez]
2006-Present: Green Bay Packers [HC Mike McCarthy]
2006-Present: Houston Texans [HC Gary Kubiak]
2007-2012: University of Oregon [OC Chip Kelly]
I took out more than necessary to show that Kubiak is in there but also to show that Weis is in there as well as McDaniel (for at least his first year at Denver) in addition to Ferentz.

infantrycak 01-08-2014 06:10 PM

Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IDEXAN (Post 2282245)
Got any documentation to back that up ? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, it's just that I was unsuccessful in finding any definitive explanation of the Hawkeyes offense being operated with a preference for either a Power or a Zone Blocking scheme.

Not sure why you can't find anything. "Kirk Ferentz Iowa zone blocking" came up with a bunch.

These are from wiki:

Quote:

The University of Iowa under head coach Kirk Ferentz, a former NFL offensive line coach, utilizes zone blocking and the inside/outside stretch play as the basis for their offense.
Maybe I undersold him as a disciple:

Quote:

The concept of Zone blocking in both the run and pass game was created by Iowa coach Kirk Ferentz. However, this blocking scheme came to prominence when used by the Denver Broncos, under offensive line coach Alex Gibbs (formerly the offensive line coach for the Seattle Seahawks), and head coach Mike Shanahan.
Kirk Ferentz was Belichick's OL coach the last 3 seasons in Cleveland.

IDEXAN 01-08-2014 11:06 PM

Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by infantrycak (Post 2282251)
Not sure why you can't find anything. "Kirk Ferentz Iowa zone blocking" came up with a bunch.

These are from wiki:



Maybe I undersold him as a disciple:



Kirk Ferentz was Belichick's OL coach the last 3 seasons in Cleveland.

Yup, I missed it bigger than hell. Don't know how I managed to do that ? I think I looked under the school and not the coach. Anyway good deal, because I like the zone blocking stuff and looks like it's gonna be around in Houston for quite a bit more time.
Now we'll need to sit tight to see who the DC will be to find out if we are gonna go with a 3-4 or 4-3 ?

Texecutioner 01-08-2014 11:34 PM

Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by silvrhand (Post 2282179)
Question,

Does anyone know what type of offense Bill O'Brien is likely to use? My main concern is our offensive line for so many years are smaller more athletic and we have a considerable investment in 2 of them, and our running back is very geared towards the zone based running game, which we have another large investement in.

Thoughts on how this will work out?

- John

I imagine they will be running a scheme that is fast paced and can run on different types of tempos. It will adjust to pass heavy and run heavy at different periods of time depending on who the opposition is. O'Brien really didn't run the offense that much different than how McDaniels is running it right now. O'Briend had been on the Patriots staff before McDaniels left to coach the Broncos. I think you'll see a very similar style offense to what they tried to execute in NE, but we'll have to wait until we have a QB who can really implement that game plan to the high level people are used to seeing.

76Texan 01-09-2014 01:09 AM

Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?
 
Was watching some Penn St. and Iowa; they both employed the ZBS alright.

Iowa has a good-looking RT (Brett Van Slotten) that the Texans will probably bring in as an UDFA.
He's a very athletic guy that needs to build up some more strength for the run game. Second team All Big 12.
Taylor Lewan, a first-teamer, will probably be drafted in the first round.
The other first-teamer is a Jr for the Hawkeyes, who had decided to go back to school.
The other second-teamer, Mewhort, is slotted to be drafted in the 3rd-4th.

Van Slotten looked good in the Outback Bowl against LSU.
He didn't allow any QB pressure; it was the interior line that leaked.

BullNation4Life 01-10-2014 11:45 AM

Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?
 
Man screw it, somebody tell Billy boy to install the ol' Chuck and Duck....

Bring back to glory days of the Oilers...

HOU-TEX 01-10-2014 12:09 PM

Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?
 
I think we're going to run the veer

IDEXAN 01-10-2014 12:19 PM

Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?
 
If Munchack were in fact to be hired as the OLine coach (which would really surprise me), let me just say that our chances of being a predominantly ZBS team would drop substantially because I don't think he drafted Chance Warmack last year when he was the Titans HC with his first round pick to run a finesse ZB scheme.

JB 01-10-2014 12:23 PM

Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HOU-TEX (Post 2283302)
I think we're going to run the veer

hahaha I was thinking that, with a bit of wishbone to mix it up

JB 01-10-2014 12:27 PM

Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IDEXAN (Post 2283305)
If Munchack were in fact to be hired as the OLine coach (which would really surprise me), let me just say that our chances of being a predominantly ZBS team would drop substantially because I don't think he drafted Chance Warmack last year when he was the Titans HC with his first round pick to run a finesse ZB scheme.

I don't think the rest of the line was much suited to run zbs predominately. You don't change the scheme to fit only the one player. But to think that Munchak doesn't know or can teach the zbs is kinda silly, and what does who Tennessee drafted have to do with what kind of offense O'Brien want to run?

mussop 01-10-2014 12:36 PM

Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JB (Post 2283312)
I don't think the rest of the line was much suited to run zbs predominately. You don't change the scheme to fit only the one player. But to think that Munchak doesn't know or can teach the zbs is kinda silly, and what does who Tennessee drafted have to do with what kind of offense O'Brien want to run?

Maybe he's bringing Womack with him. :kitten:

HOU-TEX 01-10-2014 12:54 PM

Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IDEXAN (Post 2283305)
If Munchack were in fact to be hired as the OLine coach (which would really surprise me), let me just say that our chances of being a predominantly ZBS team would drop substantially because I don't think he drafted Chance Warmack last year when he was the Titans HC with his first round pick to run a finesse ZB scheme.

The titans have, in fact, run the ZBS a lot. Heck, practically every team in the NFL mixes in ZBS running plays. They just don't base their entire offense around it like we did.

IDEXAN 01-10-2014 01:45 PM

Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HOU-TEX (Post 2283337)
The titans have, in fact, run the ZBS a lot. Heck, practically every team in the NFL mixes in ZBS running plays. They just don't base their entire offense around it like we did.

I know that teams run a variety of offensive schemes just as they run a variety of defenses. Nevertheless a team will be a base 3-4 or base 4-3 on defense, just as it will favor the power or zone scheme though they will run both throughout the course of a game, every game they play.

IDEXAN 01-10-2014 02:00 PM

Re: Bill O'Brien - Offensive Scheme?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JB (Post 2283312)
I don't think the rest of the line was much suited to run zbs predominately. You don't change the scheme to fit only the one player. But to think that Munchak doesn't know or can teach the zbs is kinda silly, and what does who Tennessee drafted have to do with what kind of offense O'Brien want to run?

Big-time FA Andy Levitre, the other Titans starting guard, cost the Titans lots of money and no doubt he was also a power type. Teams usually don't invest that kind of money or 1st round picks for zone guys, i.e., they are taken to go mano-a-mano against a JJ Watt for example. And Munchacks personal game was also power game, that's how he got into the HOF. But can Munchack teach other methods ? Of course, I'm sure he could teach any system, but I'm just pointing out what his preferences almost surely are.
And just as surely, I'd expect rookie NFL HC O'Brien will highly value Munchack's advise to include his preferences about OLine play.


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