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-   -   Trade Away AJ this off-season? (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103522)

dalemurphy 12-22-2013 12:05 PM

Trade Away AJ this off-season?
 
According to spotrac.com, the Texans could move (trade or cut) AJ in 2014 without any cap hit... meaning the Texans could save $12 million under next year's cap, and a similar number in his remaining years.

Assuming this is accurate, I'm interested in your thoughts on this possibility. Given the wide range of views regarding the team's current cap health, talent level, etc... I'm interested in simply reading the various thoughts on this idea.

I'm not sure what I think. Clearly, a lot will depend on the new coaching staff and the direction the coach wants to move... and also on AJ's attitude towards the forth-coming changes. Also, given that we will likely cut or trade OD this off-season for $6 million in cap savings, would moving AJ also be detrimental to the develop of a rookie QB's development? Or, perhaps it is a good idea to have WRs and a young QB develop together instead of a rookie QB being awestruck and over-dependent upon an All-pro veteran. I'm not sure.

How would other veterans perceive this move? Do we care? Will winning next season be a primary goal in the off-season or will 2014 be viewed as a reset?

Thoughts?

JB 12-22-2013 12:24 PM

Re: Trade Away AJ this off-season?
 
No

I want to and expect to see him retire a Texan

2slik4u 12-22-2013 12:25 PM

Re: Trade Away AJ this off-season?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dalemurphy (Post 2272342)
According to spotrac.com, the Texans could move (trade or cut) AJ in 2014 without any cap hit... meaning the Texans could save $12 million under next year's cap, and a similar number in his remaining years.

Assuming this is accurate, I'm interested in your thoughts on this possibility. Given the wide range of views regarding the team's current cap health, talent level, etc... I'm interested in simply reading the various thoughts on this idea.

I'm not sure what I think. Clearly, a lot will depend on the new coaching staff and the direction the coach wants to move... and also on AJ's attitude towards the forth-coming changes. Also, given that we will likely cut or trade OD this off-season for $6 million in cap savings, would moving AJ also be detrimental to the develop of a rookie QB's development? Or, perhaps it is a good idea to have WRs and a young QB develop together instead of a rookie QB being awestruck and over-dependent upon an All-pro veteran. I'm not sure.

How would other veterans perceive this move? Do we care? Will winning next season be a primary goal in the off-season or will 2014 be viewed as a reset?

Thoughts?

Not interested, myself. He's too valuable to lose. On pace for yet another 100 catch 1500 rec. yard season when he's supposed to be "aging". His mentoring will prove to be a huge advantage for these younger WRs development. Specifically Deandre as I don't think he is quite ready to take on lead WR duties.

There are three players on this team that are completely off limits to trades/cuts for whatever reason:

1. JJ Watt
2. Andre Johnson
3. Duane Brown

Everyone else is negotiable. Yes, even Cushing.

Andre needs to retire a Texan and have his number retired when he leaves.

jaayteetx 12-22-2013 12:29 PM

Re: Trade Away AJ this off-season?
 
No, prevailing thought throughout the league is the Texans aren't your typical team looking to rebuild and Andre is a big part of the reason why. Come back next year with a healthy Cushing, Foster and hopefully an upgrade at QB and they should be ready to contend again.

houstonspartan 12-22-2013 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2slik4u (Post 2272359)
Not interested, myself. He's too valuable to lose. On pace for yet another 100 catch 1500 rec. yard season when he's supposed to be "aging". His mentoring will prove to be a huge advantage for these younger WRs development. Specifically Deandre as I don't think he is quite ready to take on lead WR duties.

There are three players on this team that are completely off limits to trades/cuts for whatever reason:

1. JJ Watt
2. Andre Johnson
3. Duane Brown

Everyone else is negotiable. Yes, even Cushing.

Andre needs to retire a Texan and have his number retired when he leaves.

I thought I was the only one who could do without Cushing. Totally agree with you.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thorn 12-22-2013 12:49 PM

Re: Trade Away AJ this off-season?
 
Why would anyone want to trade away one of the best receivers in the league?

Exascor 12-22-2013 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalemurphy (Post 2272342)
According to spotrac.com, the Texans could move (trade or cut) AJ in 2014 without any cap hit... meaning the Texans could save $12 million under next year's cap, and a similar number in his remaining years.

Just to clarify. Yes you could move him with no cap hit. No you won't save 12 million on the cap. You save 180k.

And I'm in the group that wants Johnson to retire as a Texan.

2slik4u 12-22-2013 01:01 PM

Re: Trade Away AJ this off-season?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by houstonspartan (Post 2272396)
I thought I was the only one who could do without Cushing. Totally agree with you.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah...it's not because he isn't good. In fact, when on the field and 100% he is one of the most dominant MLB's I the league. Covers the pass, all over the field. He has all the tools.

The problem is he's only played two full seasons out of his five year career. Whether it's injuries or overtrained athlete syndrome, were just not getting the "hours in the office" we need.

For the record - our defense is a completely different when he is on the field...in a good way. On the other hand we miss him dearly when he's not there. Not sure if that is Wades fault for not preparing the rest of the defense and relying too heavily on Cush or if it's Rick Smiths for not drafting players correctly or what but his presence is noticed greatly.

I'm not saying cut him by any means but if put against the other three I listed earlier there is no question.

texanchris 12-22-2013 01:02 PM

Re: Trade Away AJ this off-season?
 
If we want to have a quick turn around like Bob and everyone else wants then we will need Dre, especially if we have a rookie QB. the rookie QB will need a safety valve, someone he can trust to make a play on the ball and Hopkins is definatley not that guy at this point in his career. I see Dre being in similar situation as Reggie Wayne when they drafted Luck

IlliniJen 12-22-2013 01:02 PM

Re: Trade Away AJ this off-season?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jaayteetx (Post 2272366)
No, prevailing thought throughout the league is the Texans aren't your typical team looking to rebuild and Andre is a big part of the reason why. Come back next year with a healthy Cushing, Foster and hopefully an upgrade at QB and they should be ready to contend again.

I think you may be overestimating the talent on our squad. There's not a ton of talent or depth on this team other than the people you mentioned. I don't think next year is a KC-like turnaround. This is a 2-3 project for the next coach.

2slik4u 12-22-2013 01:02 PM

Re: Trade Away AJ this off-season?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Exascor (Post 2272410)
Just to clarify. Yes you could move him with no cap hit. No you won't save 12 million on the cap. You save 180k.

And I'm in the group that wants Johnson to retire as a Texan.

Is that because of incentives? Sorry, not a cap expert. Please explain how we won't be gigged the $11mil+ and will only save $180k?

dalemurphy 12-22-2013 01:11 PM

Re: Trade Away AJ this off-season?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thorn (Post 2272400)
Why would anyone want to trade away one of the best receivers in the league?

To redesign the cap structure and roster of a team who is rebuilding. I'm not arguing that it should happen, but I think it is something to consider, particularly for those who think this is a 2 or 3 year rebuilding project. What could the Texans get in trade for AJ? Let's just say they can get a late 1st round pick and then a 2015 conditional pick (2nd or 3rd)... Factor the additional draft picks with the $10+ million in cap savings and the team could immediately and significantly alter the talent and age of the team at multiple positions.

For example, let's assume this trade (AJ for late 1st in 2014, and 3rd in 2015):

Maybe Texans use that extra 1st for a good RT or elite G... Then, they take some (not all) of that cap savings in free agency and sign the following:

TE- Pettigrew or Pitta (depending on offensive philosophy)
WR- Maclin
WR- G.Tate

I doubt that combination of player signings would approach the $12 million saved from AJ's loss (at least in the first couple contract years). So, AJ's gone, but, not counting the draft, here's the receiving group:

Maclin, Tate, Hopkins, Posey, KMartin
Pettigrew, Griffin, ?

at least on paper, that does not look like a bad situation... though, I understand how little "paper" can have to do with real football... Still, in some capacity, under a new regime, these are discussions that should happen during the winter months- heading into March free agency and then the draft.

dalemurphy 12-22-2013 01:15 PM

Re: Trade Away AJ this off-season?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Exascor (Post 2272410)
Just to clarify. Yes you could move him with no cap hit. No you won't save 12 million on the cap. You save 180k.

And I'm in the group that wants Johnson to retire as a Texan.

I'm not going to argue, because I don't know if spotrac is correct. If Spotrac is correct, however, the savings would be $12 million. Here is the link:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/cap-hit/2014/

Exascor 12-22-2013 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalemurphy (Post 2272439)
I'm not going to argue, because I don't know if spotrac is correct. If Spotrac is correct, however, the savings would be $12 million. Here is the link:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/cap-hit/2014/

It's wrong. It's not taking into account the guaranteed salaries from the restructures. If you go to his page on that site it had the bonuses.

Over the cap looks right.

overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Texans&Year=2014

dsorc 12-22-2013 01:47 PM

Re: Trade Away AJ this off-season?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dalemurphy (Post 2272439)
I'm not going to argue, because I don't know if spotrac is correct. If Spotrac is correct, however, the savings would be $12 million. Here is the link:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/cap-hit/2014/

Spotrac only gives the dead money for the current year. Just look at any other contract and you'll see no dead money for any years past 2013 just like Andre's. The dead money if AJ is cut/traded in 2014 should be the sum of all the miscellaneous and signing bonuses or about 14M. That dead money hit is larger than the cap hit so it would actually cost us cap space to move Andre. This is not surprising given all the restructures Andre has done in the past.

Exascor 12-22-2013 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsorc (Post 2272472)
Spotrac only gives the dead money for the current year. Just look at any other contract and you'll see no dead money for any years past 2013 just like Andre's. The dead money if AJ is cut/traded in 2014 should be the sum of all the miscellaneous and signing bonuses or about 14M. That dead money hit is larger than the cap hit so it would actually cost us cap space to move Andre. This is not surprising given all the restructures Andre has done in the past.

Again, just to clarify. Some of those bonuses are roster bonuses so they don't apply if cut or traded. Over the cap appears correct at 180k cap savings.

amazing80 12-22-2013 01:53 PM

Re: Trade Away AJ this off-season?
 
Sure, trade your best offensive weapon. Smart :vincepalm:


And people hate Rick Smith, why not bash people like this with their stupid thoughts.

dsorc 12-22-2013 01:53 PM

Re: Trade Away AJ this off-season?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Exascor (Post 2272474)
Again, just to clarify. Some of those bonuses are roster bonuses so they don't apply if cut or traded. Over the cap appears correct at 180k cap savings.

I just went with the easy math but your are right. There are 1M roster bonuses each year that account for the differences in our numbers. Same conclusion though, no cap value in getting rid of Andre.

dalemurphy 12-22-2013 02:24 PM

Re: Trade Away AJ this off-season?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Exascor (Post 2272469)
It's wrong. It's not taking into account the guaranteed salaries from the restructures. If you go to his page on that site it had the bonuses.

Over the cap looks right.

overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Texans&Year=2014

Thanks. So much for that off-season issue.

2slik4u 12-22-2013 02:28 PM

Re: Trade Away AJ this off-season?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by amazing80 (Post 2272478)
Sure, trade your best offensive weapon. Smart :vincepalm:


And people hate Rick Smith, why not bash people like this with their stupid thoughts.

Relax brah.


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