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-   -   "Our Offensive Line Sucks" (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103500)

Uncle Rico 12-20-2013 08:23 AM

"Our Offensive Line Sucks"
 
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

I'm no stats geek, maybe someone can try to make sense of this listing. I thought this years line was horrible, so I'm confused.

6th best line?? So then the only thing left to bash is coaching? Strange.

Dread-Head 12-20-2013 08:23 AM

Re: "Our Offensive Line Sucks"
 
...well...yeah...

TheIronDuke 12-20-2013 08:25 AM

Re: "Our Offensive Line Sucks"
 
No, we still need to use the first overall pick on a RT since that's the main problem on this team apparently. :kitten:

Bulls on Parade 12-20-2013 09:01 AM

Re: "Our Offensive Line Sucks"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Rico (Post 2271671)
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

I'm no stats geek, maybe someone can try to make sense of this listing. I thought this years line was horrible, so I'm confused.

6th best line?? So then the only thing left to bash is coaching? Strange.

We do have three pro bowlers up front including arguably the best left tackle in the game. All we need is an upgrade at right tackle and I'd argue we would have the best offensive line in the game. The entire team had a down year. I wouldn't expect them to play this poorly next season.

infantrycak 12-20-2013 09:01 AM

Re: "Our Offensive Line Sucks"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Rico (Post 2271671)
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

I'm no stats geek, maybe someone can try to make sense of this listing. I thought this years line was horrible, so I'm confused.

6th best line?? So then the only thing left to bash is coaching? Strange.

It's 6th best in one rushing category - adj. line yards. Look across at the other rankings and you see 28th in power (can't get 3rd and 1) 17th in getting stuffed, 10th in getting to the 2nd level (which they are supposed to excel at) and 12th in pass pro.

Bulls on Parade 12-20-2013 09:03 AM

Re: "Our Offensive Line Sucks"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by infantrycak (Post 2271687)
It's 6th best in one rushing category - adj. line yards. Look across at the other rankings and you see 28th in power (can't get 3rd and 1) 17th in getting stuffed, 10th in getting to the 2nd level (which they are supposed to excel at) and 12th in pass pro.

No Arian Foster and poor decision making at quarterback are more to blame. We didn't dominate some areas you typically expect to see from the Texans. Running the ball, play-action passes, even those short screens to Arian that turned into big plays. None of that was there in 2013.

Uncle Rico 12-20-2013 09:32 AM

Re: "Our Offensive Line Sucks"
 
It just makes me wonder how the awful QB play and injured RBs have affected the tangible evidence. Eyeball tests are very inconclusive at times.

I agree that even an average RT would create a massive difference, but also solidifies my opinion that you do not waste a top pick on a lineman. Find a guy on the cheap in FA.

Playoffs 12-20-2013 10:18 AM

Re: "Our Offensive Line Sucks"
 
As a unit, the Texans offensive line only ranks 24th/32 in Pass Blocking Efficiency -- a weighted formula that combines sacks, hits and hurries (with hits and hurries three quarters the worth) relative to how many snaps an offensive line stays in pass protection.

Duane Brown was injured early and is having an off year for him. He went from 5th/76 (2011) to 2nd/80 (2012) to 25th/78 YTD 2013.

Wade Smith is having a poor year and looks old at 32 and needs to be replaced.

Chris Myers is rated 1st/36 Centers.

Brandon Brooks is having an improved year:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Playoffs (Post 2269905)
Brandon Brooks is quietly having a good season.

PFF rates Brooks at 10th/77 Guards overall and 2nd/77 in run blocking. His pass blocking rating is where he needs to improve, rated 39th/77. (>25% snaps, before MNF)...

Derek Newton is having another bad year, 71st/78 Tackles, and Ryan Harris is at best average.

Only thing Newt has going for him is he's rated ahead of Eric Winston, who's 73rd/78.

All ratings by PFF, >25% offensive snaps, overall performance except where noted.

HJam72 12-20-2013 10:27 AM

Re: "Our Offensive Line Sucks"
 
All I know is it's Marciano's fault. Somehow.

Playoffs 12-20-2013 10:36 AM

Re: "Our Offensive Line Sucks"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HJam72 (Post 2271737)
All I know is it's Marciano's fault. Somehow.

Not anymore. :doot:

Uncle Rico 12-20-2013 10:43 AM

Re: "Our Offensive Line Sucks"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Playoffs (Post 2271734)
As a unit, the Texans offensive line only ranks 24th/32 in Pass Blocking Efficiency -- a weighted formula that combines sacks, hits and hurries (with hits and hurries three quarters the worth) relative to how many snaps an offensive line stays in pass protection.

Duane Brown was injured early and is having an off year for him. He went from 5th/76 (2011) to 2nd/80 (2012) to 25th/78 YTD 2013.

Wade Smith is having a poor year and looks old at 32 and needs to be replaced.

Chris Myers is rated 1st/36 Centers.

Brandon Brooks is having an improved year:


Derek Newton is having another bad year, 71st/78 Tackles, and Ryan Harris is at best average.

Only thing Newt has going for him is he's rated ahead of Eric Winston, who's 73rd/78.

All ratings by PFF, >25% offensive snaps, overall performance except where noted.

How much of that is QBs holding onto the ball too long?

badboy 12-20-2013 11:25 AM

Re: "Our Offensive Line Sucks"
 
Interesting that Brown is mentioned as having injuries but not Wade Smith or Newton. Fair is fair except on MB.

Mr. White 12-20-2013 12:03 PM

Re: "Our Offensive Line Sucks"
 
I don't pay any attention to Football Outsiders stats. They invent new categories that have little relevance to what actually happens on the field IMO.

I remember somebody bringing up the DVOA stat in the 2009 (2nd 8-8 record in a row) season to make a case for how well the team was performing.

Their stats always seem to run counter to common sense.

TheIronDuke 12-20-2013 12:03 PM

Re: "Our Offensive Line Sucks"
 
I would like to see fat Randy get a shot on the offensive line. I don't know how much weight he'd have to shed to be effective but if we stop running the ZBS and need a big fat mauler, he might be worth looking into.

IDEXAN 12-20-2013 12:08 PM

Re: "Our Offensive Line Sucks"
 
Lot of people critisize the current regime for not getting the problems on the right side of our OLine fixed - wrong ! They drafted 2 OLineman last year, using a 3rd round pick on one of them. Of course both of those rookies (Brennan Williams & David Quessenberry), ended up on IR early. Most Texans know this, but some don't. Hey they tried, but injuries-shi? just happens, can't be helped.

bah007 12-20-2013 12:34 PM

Re: "Our Offensive Line Sucks"
 
It's hard to have good pass blocking efficiency when your QB holds the ball for days. I agree that the OL isn't as bad as some make it seem, but we still need to upgrade at LG and RT.

Playoffs 12-20-2013 02:25 PM

Re: "Our Offensive Line Sucks"
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by badboy (Post 2271752)
Interesting that Brown is mentioned as having injuries but not Wade Smith or Newton. Fair is fair except on MB.

Duane's injury was mentioned to explain some of his dropoff from being at the top of the league, that (hopefully) this year is an outlier.

Wade's injury does not explain his decline from 2010 when he was rated 3rd/82 to 2011 63rd/78 to 2012 28th/81, so it wasn't mentioned.

Newton's injury certainly too has impacted his production, but wasn't mentioned because it alone can't explain his poor performance overall 65th/80 2012 & 71st/78 ytd.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Rico (Post 2271741)
How much of that is QBs holding onto the ball too long?

That can explain some of it, sure: For instance Case Keenum is rated 38th/40 in time to attempt a pass at 2.97 seconds. Peyton is 4th @ 2.34 and Brady is 6th at 2.39 seconds, for reference.

Now there's a lot of reasons why the many "QB time" statistics can be skewed: scrambling, scheme, 3/5/7 step drops, dink & dunk vs. down-field passing, % rollouts, slow/fast reads, etc. So it's difficult to put it all into a number that answers the question.

TheMatrix31 12-20-2013 02:59 PM

Re: "Our Offensive Line Sucks"
 
I don't need stats to tell me what I saw this year was terrible.

Double Barrel 12-20-2013 03:00 PM

Re: "Our Offensive Line Sucks"
 
Well, if the old saying about a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link, then this line sucks because Newton has got to be one of the worst RTs in the league.

The one play that really stands out as a sterling example of Newton's suckiness was the first play of the game after a kickoff (can't remember opponent, all the losses sort of blur together). But, Keenum barely took a three step drop before Newton's completely blown block caused Keenum to get stripped and fumbled in the EZ.

Yeah, QBs are part of the problem, but there are too many times that we've seen Newton get completely manhandled to place all the blame on QBs.

However, that said, I think this line could be fixed by next year if Newton is replaced and they get a good line coach.

eriadoc 12-20-2013 03:13 PM

Re: "Our Offensive Line Sucks"
 
Keenum holds onto the ball too long. There's no disputing that. Young QBs have a tendency to do that anyway. The problem with the OL is not the sacks that are the QBs fault. It's the ones that happen all too frequently where Newton actually gets out of the way of the guy he's supposed to block, or the interior linemen mix up an assignment and you get inside pressure untouched. There's only so much you can blame on the OL, and there's only so much you can blame on the QB. Newton does not belong in the NFL at all. Brandon Brooks has issues in pass pro, but you can tell he belongs and may actually improve. Wade Smith no longer belongs in a starting lineup. That's three of your five OL that can't pass protect worth a damn, and Myers has problems whenever he faces a NT that outweighs him (which is often). So that's 4 OL that have issues in pass pro. One of them is probably going to break down on any given pass play.

And Newton .... seriously. A traffic cone would prove to be more of an obstacle on some of his lowlights.


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