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-   -   Which is more rare? (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103227)

beerlover 11-29-2013 10:11 PM

Which is more rare?
 
Franchise QB, LT or shutdown corner :butterfly:

open for serious discussion only lets stick to subject:foottap:

steelbtexan 11-29-2013 10:52 PM

Re: Which is more rare?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beerlover (Post 2258778)
Franchise QB, LT or shutdown corner :butterfly:

open for serious discussion only lets stick to subject:foottap:

Deion Sanders was one of a kind.

Revis is the best of this generation

Mel Blount and Willie Brown were the 2 shutdown CB's of my childhood.

So, yes I think shutdown CB is more rare than QB. I mean I consider Manning, Brady,Brees and Rodgers to be the elite QB's of this generation. How many shutdown CB's can you name?

SAMURAITEXAN 11-29-2013 11:48 PM

Re: Which is more rare?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by steelbtexan (Post 2258787)
Deion Sanders was one of a kind.

Revis is the best of this generation

Mel Blount and Willie Brown were the 2 shutdown CB's of my childhood.

So, yes I think shutdown CB is more rare than QB. I mean I consider Manning, Brady,Brees and Rodgers to be the elite QB's of this generation. How many shutdown CB's can you name?

I agree, shutdown corner is a rare breed than the other positions I think. However, an elite QB can win some games even with a bad team.

infantrycak 11-29-2013 11:59 PM

Re: Which is more rare?
 
Make that 3. Shutdown corner gets used far more than it actually exists. There are times when there are none. There are usually 3-5 elite QBs at any time.

powda 11-30-2013 12:58 AM

Re: Which is more rare?
 
More rare? The cb. Wins more games? The qb.

b0ng 11-30-2013 01:02 AM

Re: Which is more rare?
 
Shutdown CB's don't usually last as long as your franchise QB types. Lose a step and your "shutdown" days are pretty much over, Nnamdi Asomugha seems like a pretty good example of this.

I think the term elite gets thrown around a lot for QB's and I think it applies a lot less than what is bandied about. Manning and Brady are definitely elite but you don't really see elite guys at CB that are Manning or Brady's age. Usually they tend to slide over to being a really good safety.

I think with LT's it just seems like very few of them last a long time being considered elite. Walter Jones and Jonathan Ogden are the guys I see as being elite then and I think Joe Thomas is probably the consensus elite LT year in and year out elite LT right now with Clady (injury issues) and Brown (down year) being right on the outside of that elite bubble.

Harder to find has to be QB since every team is looking to find those guys as rookies. They make extremely stupid draft day decisions trying to find that guy, if you have it almost doesn't matter if the rest of the team is just average, they are almost always good for at least a playoff spot if not multiple CCG appearances.

steelbtexan 11-30-2013 01:17 AM

Re: Which is more rare?
 
Just thought of 2 more from the past.

Rod Woodson and Mike Haynes

powda 11-30-2013 01:33 AM

Re: Which is more rare?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by steelbtexan (Post 2258811)
Just thought of 2 more from the past.

Rod Woodson and Mike Haynes

Woodson was my all time favorite....freaking beast. Only blemish was his cowgirls stint.

bhsman 11-30-2013 01:51 AM

Re: Which is more rare?
 
How rare would you consider a shutdown fullback? :kitten:

HJam72 11-30-2013 05:01 AM

Re: Which is more rare?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bhsman (Post 2258813)
How rare would you consider a shutdown fullback? :kitten:

It would be extremely rare for a fullback to shutdown receivers. :kitten:

Corrosion 11-30-2013 07:01 AM

Re: Which is more rare?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by steelbtexan (Post 2258787)
How many shutdown CB's can you name?

There is no such thing in todays NFL with the rules skewed so far in favor of the offense.

The shut down corner is extinct ....

ArlingtonTexan 11-30-2013 08:17 AM

Re: Which is more rare?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Corrosion (Post 2258831)
There is no such thing in todays NFL with the rules skewed so far in favor of the offense.

The shut down corner is extinct ....

In fact, CB is a volume position now. Probably better to have 3 or 4 at least average ones with a variety of body types and skills than one guy. Rick Smith's approach was initially correct at the position in terms of drafting one every year, but his execution of who to draft and the more need based approach to drafting of the last two years has made good philosophy moot.

Honoring Earl 34 11-30-2013 09:13 AM

Re: Which is more rare?
 
Michael Haynes and Lester Hayes as a duo ... Tha raiders .

As important as said shutdown corner is , I don't think ones ever been drafted #1 overall .

Texian 11-30-2013 09:40 AM

Re: Which is more rare?
 
Shutdown corner BUT a Franchise QB is the most important player on your team.

gwallaia 11-30-2013 10:05 AM

Re: Which is more rare?
 
But the way the rules have changed to favor receivers, the shut-down corners are going to be even more rare to the point of extinction.

Honoring Earl 34 11-30-2013 10:10 AM

Re: Which is more rare?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gwallaia (Post 2258868)
But the way the rules have changed to favor receivers, the shut-down corners are going to be even more rare to the point of extinction.

Good point ... the new term would be , catch limiting corner .

beerlover 11-30-2013 11:13 AM

Re: Which is more rare?
 
who is the best QB in the league right now?

is there a clear cut consensus franchise tackle?

have not seen Revis play this year with Tampa, but is there any CB who teams fear or avoid @ all costs?

good point made by Arlington in regards to CB becoming a volume position because of scarcity, in that vein does safety enter picture & how does his value measure up against top rated CB's?

bah007 11-30-2013 11:32 AM

Re: Which is more rare?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beerlover (Post 2258885)
who is the best QB in the league right now?

is there a clear cut consensus franchise tackle?

have not seen Revis play this year with Tampa, but is there any CB who teams fear or avoid @ all costs?

good point made by Arlington in regards to CB becoming a volume position because of scarcity, in that vein does safety enter picture & how does his value measure up against top rated CB's?

1. Manning still appears to be the man. Although Brady seems to always get it done.

2. Joe Thomas and Ryan Clady are the consensus top LTs. I like Russell Okung as well.

3. Richard Sherman, without a doubt.

4. I look at S in today's league like this: I like a traditional FS as my SS, and I like a CB/FS hybrid as my FS. Because the TE is becoming popular again in the passing game, a FS like Earl Thomas is almost as valuable as a top tier CB.

infantrycak 11-30-2013 11:59 AM

Re: Which is more rare?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beerlover (Post 2258885)
who is the best QB in the league right now?

is there a clear cut consensus franchise tackle?

Well you are changing up your question. As originally asked it wasn't about value of positions or who is absolute best (that definitionally means there is one of each). You asked about rarity for shutdown CB v. franchise QB or LT. For that it doesn't matter who is absolute best. Manning, Brady, Brees and Rodger are all clearly franchise QBs regardless of who is best.

Quote:

have not seen Revis play this year with Tampa, but is there any CB who teams fear or avoid @ all costs?
Quote:

Originally Posted by bah007 (Post 2258892)
3. Richard Sherman, without a doubt.

Revis pre-injury was approaching shutdown during his Revis island phase.

Sherman isn't even close as can be demonstrated by the Texans game. The Texans went after him all day long. Clearly he was not feared and avoided (although he should have been on the pick 6).

Deion was truly shutdown. QBs largely refrained from even throwing in his direction.

steelbtexan 11-30-2013 12:02 PM

Re: Which is more rare?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bah007 (Post 2258892)
1. Manning still appears to be the man. Although Brady seems to always get it done.

2. Joe Thomas and Ryan Clady are the consensus top LTs. I like Russell Okung as well.

3. Richard Sherman, without a doubt.

4. I look at S in today's league like this: I like a traditional FS as my SS, and I like a CB/FS hybrid as my FS. Because the TE is becoming popular again in the passing game, a FS like Earl Thomas is almost as valuable as a top tier CB.



Great post,this is what the NFL is evolving into.

You need this and atleast 3 good CB's.

Maybe DJ will develop into the FS that you're looking for. I've got my doubts. Other than JoJo and KJ there are not NFL quality Hybrid nickle CB or the hybrid CB/FS on the roster. The best way to fill the CB/FS role is to sign a vet CB who's lost a step to fill that role. (Charles/Rod Woodson/Lott) all made the transition late in their careers.


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