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-   -   Duane Brown and Jake Matthews (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103006)

badboy 11-15-2013 09:12 AM

Duane Brown and Jake Matthews
 
There has been some useful comments on other threads but would like to have it centered here if possible. On my most recent mock, I have Houston selecting Texas A&M OT Jake Matthews in first round. He played RT until 2013 when he moved over to LT and is doing well. He did bounce over to RT to replace injured Cedric Ogbuehi against Vanderbilt. *Note Ogbuehi has stated he is returning to school.

My thought is Matthews should start day one at RT and eventually replace DB at left tackle. Brown is 28 & is under contract until 2018 with prorated bonus & dead money up after 2016. When Matthews is ready, DB switches to the right and hopefully prolongs his career. He will be 33 end of his contract & making almost $10 m each of last two seasons. Here is a link:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/duane-brown/

For this thread, I am not interested if you think another position should be addressed as that is being discussed elsewhere. What do you think of this plan? Thanks!

infantrycak 11-15-2013 09:47 AM

Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews
 
I had thought the same thing in reading comments about not using a high pick on a RT. I wouldn't make the shift until Brown's play falls off demonstrably. In either set up the two have the potential to be the best OT combo in the league for an extended period.

Playoffs 11-15-2013 09:54 AM

Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews
 
Need two good tackles and a guard with a nasty disposition. I have zero issue drafting Matthews -- gotta like those bloodlines.

badboy 11-15-2013 10:20 AM

Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Playoffs (Post 2250024)
Need two good tackles and a guard with a nasty disposition. I have zero issue drafting Matthews -- gotta like those bloodlines.

I think this would do that; two excellent fixtures @ tackle, Brooks with the nasty streak and Q with the solid working man ability. He could be even better than I hope. If a healthy Brennan Williams and Newton can help we have room. If Newton does not do better 2014 is his last contract year. We know Ryan Harris will re-sign cheaply.

Rey 11-15-2013 10:41 AM

Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews
 
If Matthews is what he's supposed to be, then I really don't have any issues with taking him in a vaccum.

But I would not take him with any plans of moving him to LT in 5 years. That's half a decade away. Lots of things can change.

I remember people were saying we were set with brown and Winston at tackle for years to come.

badboy 11-15-2013 11:02 AM

Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey (Post 2250043)
If Matthews is what he's supposed to be, then I really don't have any issues with taking him in a vaccum.

But I would not take him with any plans of moving him to LT in 5 years. That's half a decade away. Lots of things can change.

I remember people were saying we were set with brown and Winston at tackle for years to come.

I agree on 5 years but I was thinking move in 2-3 as it usually takes that long for LT to develop & if Brown could then switch to RT + extend his career...I also think we could have been set with Winston for years as he did play for 6 with us and then two more so far with other teams.

aussie_texan 11-15-2013 08:29 PM

Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews
 
in my mock i pretty much had the same idea with lewan. so i would be very happy with this scenario

steelbtexan 11-15-2013 09:59 PM

Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aussie_texan (Post 2250253)
in my mock i pretty much had the same idea with lewan. so i would be very happy with this scenario

I'm on boad with Matthews if Clowney isn't available.

Brown & Matthews = Watt& Clowney

I can only imagine how great Watt could be with a bad a** like Clowney drawing double teams.

beerlover 11-15-2013 10:38 PM

Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by steelbtexan (Post 2250285)
I'm on boad with Matthews if Clowney isn't available.

Brown & Matthews = Watt& Clowney

I can only imagine how great Watt could be with a bad a** like Clowney drawing double teams.

Here is the thing. Why didn't Texans just resign Mario?

Brown is locked up awhile & Matthews could also be locked up under a rookie salary cap friendly contract but just can't imagine being able to afford Watt extension on top of contract Clowney will be looking for. I know that's not what you want to hear & there's no harm in dreaming :bubbles:

bhsman 11-15-2013 10:45 PM

Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews
 
If you were worried about contracts for current players enough to keep you from drafting others, why draft at all? :thisbig:

Trap_Star 11-15-2013 11:08 PM

Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beerlover (Post 2250303)
Here is the thing. Why didn't Texans just resign Mario?

Brown is locked up awhile & Matthews could also be locked up under a rookie salary cap friendly contract but just can't imagine being able to afford Watt extension on top of contract Clowney will be looking for. I know that's not what you want to hear & there's no harm in dreaming :bubbles:

kinda moronic to draft with potential future cap 'implications' in mind.

steelbtexan 11-15-2013 11:29 PM

Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by beerlover (Post 2250303)
Here is the thing. Why didn't Texans just resign Mario?

Brown is locked up awhile & Matthews could also be locked up under a rookie salary cap friendly contract but just can't imagine being able to afford Watt extension on top of contract Clowney will be looking for. I know that's not what you want to hear & there's no harm in dreaming :bubbles:

Unlike the posters below, Clowney wont cost 100 mil like MW did. But I understand what you're saying. With that said Matthews ranks #1 on my board. But I'm not thru evaluating the college talent. Or the Texans Talent. (Keenum/Graham/Martin/RB's etc...)

Wolf6151 11-16-2013 12:30 AM

Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews
 
Is Matthews the best OT in this draft? Yes. Is Matthews the best player if available when we pick? Yes. Is Matthews the best value when we pick? I don't know. If we could trade down from the top 5 to the mid 1st (12-15ish) and still get Erving or Kouandjio in the 1st, I think there would be better value for us as well as getting an extra pick or 2.

As for your plan, I think it's sound but has 2 flaws that I can see. Since the big money on DB's contract doesn't kick in until after 2016 I have doubts that DB is with the team after that. He might be a salary cap cut at that time. Also getting moved to RT won't extend DB's career. Teams have 2 great pass rushers now so it would be just as hard on DB and he'd have to learn a new position in the process. Now he could maybe get moved to LG to extend his career. I know it's also a new position but shouldn't be as hard on him. Maybe we could extend DB's contract another couple years in 2016 and lower his salary cap hit in the process.

infantrycak 11-16-2013 01:00 AM

Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolf6151 (Post 2250322)
As for your plan, I think it's sound but has 2 flaws that I can see. Since the big money on DB's contract doesn't kick in until after 2016 I have doubts that DB is with the team after that. He might be a salary cap cut at that time. Also getting moved to RT won't extend DB's career. Teams have 2 great pass rushers now so it would be just as hard on DB and he'd have to learn a new position in the process. Now he could maybe get moved to LG to extend his career. I know it's also a new position but shouldn't be as hard on him. Maybe we could extend DB's contract another couple years in 2016 and lower his salary cap hit in the process.

I think you are overly concerned on both your flaws. Flipping sides is not at all unusual for an OT. Two of Brown's college seasons were spent at RT so the perspective is not new to him. Brown's cap hit does not go up substantially after a large bump he will get next season. At the height of his contract he will still be under the 2013 franchise tag number of $9,828,000. His contract is not back end loaded on the cap and is not a burdensome contract for someone of his caliber. 33 years is not time for the retirement home for many OLmen.

Rey 11-16-2013 01:05 AM

Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews
 
I have only about 15 years of real nfl watching experience. How many premier LT's switch to other positions with the sand team to pro long their career?

Just putting myself in browns shoes, if I still think I can play LT, why on earth am I going to willingly go to RT or let alone a position I've never played before like guard.

If you're taking Matthews it's because you think he's the best guy to help you win games right now. Maybe you like the fact that he can be LT insurance, but I'm not buying the plan of moving him to LT and brown to RT in 2 or 3 years. That doesn't seem very realistic to me.

The more likely scenario is that brown is released when his play tapers off and if Matthews has played well enough at RT then you'd consider giving him the chance to fill that void.

thunderkyss 11-16-2013 01:08 AM

Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey (Post 2250043)
If Matthews is what he's supposed to be, then I really don't have any issues with taking him in a vaccum.

But I would not take him with any plans of moving him to LT in 5 years. That's half a decade away. Lots of things can change.

I remember people were saying we were set with brown and Winston at tackle for years to come.

Scared the sht out of me when Brown got banged up in KC.

I wouldn't plan on moving him in 5 years, I'd take him as the best player available & play it by ear. 4 years from now, if he's still playing RT & Brown is playing like we expect.... trade one or the other.

If Matthews becomes the better option for LT (most likely due to injury) at anytime before then, make the switch.

But we've got to do something about that RT spot, & two elite tackles would make it easier for Keenum to succeed (since we're passing on a first round QB) & help the run game.

If Kubiak continues as our coach in 2014. If we decide not to draft a QB in the first... if Matthews is still there when we pick... it's a no brainer.

infantrycak 11-16-2013 01:13 AM

Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey (Post 2250327)
I have only about 15 years of real nfl watching experience. How many premier LT's switch to other positions with the sand team to pro long their career?

This is why I said not to force the switch on an arbitrary schedule and instead wait for the decline to be noticeable.

Rey 11-16-2013 01:25 AM

Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews
 
Personally, I don't like the technique that I see from our OL at times. Especially newton. But the entire group seems to not be very technically sound. That's just my opinion. I don't believe that the talent on the OL is that bad. Really, there is no reason newton should be as bad as he is. Other than maybe injury...but his technique as a tackle out there on the edge is cringeworthy. I don't understand how the coaches can look at film and not be all over this guy...this group as a whole. It's like sometimes they don't do the small things that matter a lot.

But newton should not be this bad.

I say this to say this...we have invested a good amount into the OL. I believe more than any other position group, especially in this scheme, that is the group that can be coached up the most. But we have like 5 decent draft picks there, some lower round picks, some money tied up at center.

I think if you make this pick Matthews has to be really special.

steelbtexan 11-16-2013 01:40 AM

Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey (Post 2250332)
Personally, I don't like the technique that I see from our OL at times. Especially newton. But the entire group seems to not be very technically sound. That's just my opinion. I don't believe that the talent on the OL is that bad. Really, there is no reason newton should be as bad as he is. Other than maybe injury...but his technique as a tackle out there on the edge is cringeworthy. I don't understand how the coaches can look at film and not be all over this guy...this group as a whole. It's like sometimes they don't do the small things that matter a lot.

But newton should not be this bad.

I say this to say this...we have invested a good amount into the OL. I believe more than any other position group, especially in this scheme, that is the group that can be coached up the most. But we have like 5 decent draft picks there, some lower round picks, some money tied up at center.

I think if you make this pick Matthews has to be really special.

Matthews is really special.

Clowney is too, if both of them are there I dont know which one I would pick. Matthews is the safest pick in this daft. Clowney has the most upside. IMHO

thunderkyss 11-16-2013 02:07 AM

Re: Duane Brown and Jake Matthews
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by steelbtexan (Post 2250336)
Matthews is really special.

Clowney is too, if both of them are there I dont know which one I would pick. Matthews is the safest pick in this daft. Clowney has the most upside. IMHO

http://s3.amazonaws.com/br-cdn/temp_...eyHitLarge.gif

I'd be tempted to see what Wade would do with him, but that is even more redundant than Brown & Matthews. I would think Wade would want to use him like Jj... IF Clowney were to take Antonio's spot that would allow Wade to keep Jj on the defensive left side, & if the TE motions to the right, they could just shift right instead of Jj & Antonio having to switch spots.

I can see that "theoretically" helping the OLBs, but Antonio's been playing as well as you could expect in 2011 & 2012 & the OLBs still can't find the QB, so I don't know.

OL, we've got to do something. Newton, Brennan... how optimistic are you in these two?

Then there's Wade Smith. We've got Quiz & Ben Jones... eye-yie-yie


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