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-   -   Dre's Recent TD Success - Opinions Wanted (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102845)

chenjy9 11-05-2013 04:39 PM

Dre's Recent TD Success - Opinions Wanted
 
So is AJ's recent TD emergence just a fluke or does it really mean that his career was essentially wasted with Schaub under center? As pissed as I was when we went away from a clearly working offense, I still wondered about Dre's performance in the first half. The guy is not getting younger nor did he find a fountain of youth, so was it all just the result of the QB change? Was he always capable of deep strikes into the end zone, but MS simply wasn't capable of delivering a strike? I maybe knee-jerking, but all this time many of us thought of Dre as a incredibly dependable workhorse to move the chains and simply is not a TD type receiver.

silvrhand 11-05-2013 04:47 PM

Re: Dre's Recent TD Success - Opinions Wanted
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chenjy9 (Post 2243647)
So is AJ's recent TD emergence just a fluke or does it really mean that his career was essentially wasted with Schaub under center? As pissed as I was when we went away from a clearly working offense, I still wondered about Dre's performance in the first half. The guy is not getting younger nor did he find a fountain of youth, so was it all just the result of the QB change? Was he always capable of deep strikes into the end zone, but MS simply wasn't capable of delivering a strike? I maybe knee-jerking, but all this time many of us thought of Dre as a incredibly dependable workhorse to move the chains and simply is not a TD type receiver.

Matt Schaub has not consistently hit AJ in stride on long balls, which in turn allowed the DB to catch up. So far Mr. Keenum has able to put the ball down the field to let AJ go run under it, which means more touchdowns.

Anyone notice the first touchdown was an out and up on the out route that every corner has been sitting on for weeks. About f'ing time we ran that route.

Vance87 11-05-2013 04:47 PM

Re: Dre's Recent TD Success - Opinions Wanted
 
1st TD was a splendid double move by AJ.

The other 2 were off-the-cuff great throws by Case.

AJ has always been an exceptional route runner and throws off the best cornerbacks like Richard Sherman for easy completions. He had above average speed in his youth, but his ability to get behind a defender due to his elusiveness and football prowess has always been his strong suit.

The Pencil Neck 11-05-2013 04:54 PM

Re: Dre's Recent TD Success - Opinions Wanted
 
It was 1 game.

But.

With a different QB over the course of his career, AJ's numbers would have been even more impressive. With Schaub at QB, AJ has been a monster. He's put up more 1500 yard seasons than just about anybody and he's caught a ton of balls. He's been VERY productive with Schaub.

QBs make the throws they think they can make, the throws they're comfortable with. Case is willing to go out and take some chances that Matt (and HWWNBN before him) would not take. That ended up with AJ getting three touchdowns on Sunday but that doesn't mean we can expect AJ to keep up that pace or that CASE will be able to get those same opportunities as teams learn more about him and what he can do.

If you want to feel sorry for someone, feel sorry for Larry Fitzgerald. He could have had an insane career, too, if he'd had the right QB.

axman40 11-05-2013 04:55 PM

Re: Dre's Recent TD Success - Opinions Wanted
 
It's the upside of having a gunslinger at Qb. My case for Case!
:fans::fans::fans:

Rey 11-05-2013 04:56 PM

Re: Dre's Recent TD Success - Opinions Wanted
 
I thought it was kind of interesting today when Dre talked about how keenum does things that Matt would have. He talked about how "other qb's" wouldn't have thrown some of those passes, but case puts confidence into guys and has the attitude that his guys are better than yours...

Exascor 11-05-2013 04:57 PM

Re: Dre's Recent TD Success - Opinions Wanted
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck (Post 2243653)
It was 1 game.

But.

With a different QB over the course of his career, AJ's numbers would have been even more impressive. With Schaub at QB, AJ has been a monster. He's put up more 1500 yard seasons than just about anybody and he's caught a ton of balls. He's been VERY productive with Schaub.

QBs make the throws they think they can make, the throws they're comfortable with. Case is willing to go out and take some chances that Matt (and HWWNBN before him) would not take. That ended up with AJ getting three touchdowns on Sunday but that doesn't mean we can expect AJ to keep up that pace or that CASE will be able to get those same opportunities as teams learn more about him and what he can do.

If you want to feel sorry for someone, feel sorry for Larry Fitzgerald. He could have had an insane career, too, if he'd had the right QB.

Mr Pencil hit the nail on the head.

chenjy9 11-05-2013 04:59 PM

Re: Dre's Recent TD Success - Opinions Wanted
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck (Post 2243653)
It was 1 game.

But.

With a different QB over the course of his career, AJ's numbers would have been even more impressive. With Schaub at QB, AJ has been a monster. He's put up more 1500 yard seasons than just about anybody and he's caught a ton of balls. He's been VERY productive with Schaub.

QBs make the throws they think they can make, the throws they're comfortable with. Case is willing to go out and take some chances that Matt (and HWWNBN before him) would not take. That ended up with AJ getting three touchdowns on Sunday but that doesn't mean we can expect AJ to keep up that pace or that CASE will be able to get those same opportunities as teams learn more about him and what he can do.

If you want to feel sorry for someone, feel sorry for Larry Fitzgerald. He could have had an insane career, too, if he'd had the right QB.

I definitely understand that as a single game, it is too small a sample size to take away anything valid. I very well might be knee jerking here. It still confuses me though that while AJ has been a reception and yardage monster for a healthy Schaub and even HWWNBN, he never was an end zone threat. Still, I can't help but wonder at the same time, was this capability always there and Schaub was simply too incompetent or did Case just get incredibly lucky/hot against the Colts. I personally think/hope this trend of getting AJ into the end zone will continue, because I am really high on Case as he made Jean look competent in the preseason.

PS
Don't feel for Larry at all. :D I feel for AJ though because he represents the Texans team much like Hakeem did for the Rockets.

76Texan 11-05-2013 05:11 PM

Re: Dre's Recent TD Success - Opinions Wanted
 
QB play, no doubt about it!

Teams can try to adjust; Keenum was never about one or two guys.

He will try to find a way to attack the defense; acting, instead of reacting.

Rey 11-05-2013 05:18 PM

Re: Dre's Recent TD Success - Opinions Wanted
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck (Post 2243653)
It was 1 game.

But.

With a different QB over the course of his career, AJ's numbers would have been even more impressive. With Schaub at QB, AJ has been a monster. He's put up more 1500 yard seasons than just about anybody and he's caught a ton of balls. He's been VERY productive with Schaub.

QBs make the throws they think they can make, the throws they're comfortable with. Case is willing to go out and take some chances that Matt (and HWWNBN before him) would not take. That ended up with AJ getting three touchdowns on Sunday but that doesn't mean we can expect AJ to keep up that pace or that CASE will be able to get those same opportunities as teams learn more about him and what he can do.

If you want to feel sorry for someone, feel sorry for Larry Fitzgerald. He could have had an insane career, too, if he'd had the right QB.

You were a huge Schaub guy so I'm not surprised you'd sugar coat it.

Anyway you slice it Schaub has limited the potential of the offense, more specifically Dre. He wasn't terrible, but some of these criticisms that people had all along but were labeled stupid or haters or ignorant or whatever are now on full display. Not only that, but the players are now coming out and saying as much.

Players like Dre don't come along very often. Think about it. He can do everything. Big, strong, fast...hard working, dedicated, not a diva, and extremely loyal.

Give him a better qb and we could be maybe be talking about at least a one time world champ and all time leader in many categories. A no brainier hall of famer. A guy that could maybe have surpassed rice as the greatest WR ever. One of the greatest to ever play any position period.

If he had a better qb for most of his duration here. Yeah Dre has done pretty good anyways but the point is that he could have been better.

And Schaub possessed no special skills. He was chad Pennington in a great system with a beast WR. Actually, Pennington probably would've been better here. More moxy.

I don't care if case can keep doing what he's done or not and really it's not even relevant. The texans organization has been extremely fortunate with Andre and I think they should have tried harder to find a qb to match his skillet. A qb that could elevate his game and not always the other way around.

texanhead08 11-05-2013 05:22 PM

Re: Dre's Recent TD Success - Opinions Wanted
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey (Post 2243657)
I thought it was kind of interesting today when Dre talked about how keenum does things that Matt would have. He talked about how "other qb's" wouldn't have thrown some of those passes, but case puts confidence into guys and has the attitude that his guys are better than yours...


Dan Fouts was doing a UH back during Keenum's sophmore year and Case completed a pass for a touchdown with 2 guys covering the WR. Fouts said thats not a bad throw that sometimes you just have to trust your guy will win the battle.

kingtexan 11-05-2013 05:30 PM

Re: Dre's Recent TD Success - Opinions Wanted
 
Andre may be in the running for every receiving record in the history of the NFL if he wouldn't have been stuck with Carr and Schaub. That being said his career hasn't been wasted, just not what it might have been with a legitimate true NFL quarterback throwing his way.

The Pencil Neck 11-05-2013 05:32 PM

Re: Dre's Recent TD Success - Opinions Wanted
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey (Post 2243669)
You were a huge Schaub guy so I'm not surprised you'd sugar coat it.

Anyway you slice it Schaub has limited the potential of the offense, more specifically Dre. He wasn't terrible, but some of these criticisms that people had all along but were labeled stupid or haters or ignorant or whatever are now on full display. Not only that, but the players are now coming out and saying as much.

Players like Dre don't come along very often. Think about it. He can do everything. Big, strong, fast...hard working, dedicated, not a diva, and extremely loyal.

Give him a better qb and we could be maybe be talking about at least a one time world champ and all time leader in many categories. A no brainier hall of famer. A guy that could maybe have surpassed rice as the greatest WR ever. One of the greatest to ever play any position period.

If he had a better qb for most of his duration here. Yeah Dre has done pretty good anyways but the point is that he could have been better.

And Schaub possessed no special skills. He was chad Pennington in a great system with a beast WR. Actually, Pennington probably would've been better here. More moxy.

I don't care if case can keep doing what he's done or not and really it's not even relevant. The texans organization has been extremely fortunate with Andre and I think they should have tried harder to find a qb to match his skillet. A qb that could elevate his game and not always the other way around.

I still think that Schaub didn't get as much credit as he deserved for how well he operated this offense when he was in his prime. And I think in his prime, he could have taken this team to a SB and won it.

He was not an elite QB but he was as good as Flacco, just in totally different ways.

I didn't expect Schaub to crash and burn and go from being a very serviceable QB to being a scrub as quickly as he has. I'll admit that. I expected him to be able to play his way out of this funk he's been in recently and I was wrong about that.

But to the original question, Andre paired with someone like a Brady, Brees, or Peyton would have destroyed all of Jerry Rice's records. He would have been a TD scoring machine and he still could turn into a TD scoring machine. Schaub has never been confused as being one of those guys even at his peak and it's a little early to think that Case will be one of those guys (although it's fun to hope he will.)

Scooter 11-05-2013 05:34 PM

Re: Dre's Recent TD Success - Opinions Wanted
 
TD 1 - matt throws a nice enough pass that dre has to wait on, and gets tackled at the 8 yard line.

TD 2 - matt throws it away after backing away to his right. no way he even attempts to throw that pass and no way he can hit that window.

TD 3 - matt spikes it, we either run, play-action to a tightend or we kick a fieldgoal.


i heard that andre has never had a 3 touchdown game before and that doesnt surprise me. he hasnt had a quarterback that can throw touchdowns without being schemed into it. keenum can lead his receivers. he can throw it to space and let his receiver hunt it down. and he's not afraid to trust his receivers such as the jump ball to hopkins.

RTP2110 11-05-2013 05:35 PM

Re: Dre's Recent TD Success - Opinions Wanted
 
AJ didn't just now figure out how to catch TD's; he's doing the same things he's always done. I have no doubts his low TD totals have been due to the system and QB play.

Fili 11-05-2013 05:35 PM

Re: Dre's Recent TD Success - Opinions Wanted
 
http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-te...son-connection

Double Barrel 11-05-2013 05:39 PM

Re: Dre's Recent TD Success - Opinions Wanted
 
I have to wonder if Jerry Rice would have been JERRY RICE G.O.A.T. if he didn't have two HoF QBs throwing the ball to him for the majority of his career.

Sure, the dude would have been elite on any team. But take that talent and put it on a team with Joe Montana and Steve Young, and it takes it out of this world.

Think if AJ had Manning or Brady throwing the ball to him for the past 10 years. How many Super Bowl rings and mentions of first ballot HoF would he have now?

He's that kind of special talent. Unfortunately, he was the only special talent this franchise had for too many years of his career.

Wolf 11-05-2013 05:51 PM

Re: Dre's Recent TD Success - Opinions Wanted
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Double Barrel (Post 2243680)
I have to wonder if Jerry Rice would have been JERRY RICE G.O.A.T. if he didn't have two HoF QBs throwing the ball to him for the majority of his career.

Sure, the dude would have been elite on any team. But take that talent and put it on a team with Joe Montana and Steve Young, and it takes it out of this world.

Think if AJ had Manning or Brady throwing the ball to him for the past 10 years. How many Super Bowl rings and mentions of first ballot HoF would he have now?

He's that kind of special talent. Unfortunately, he was the only special talent this franchise had for too many years of his career.


Yep DB. Kinda like emmit smith and that cowboys offensive line...think if earl ran behind that line

eriadoc 11-05-2013 07:23 PM

Re: Dre's Recent TD Success - Opinions Wanted
 
I think Keenum made it clear the other night that AJ hasn't been the problem. The team never threw to AJ in the end zone, but AJ proved the other night that he is just as effective there as anywhere else on the field, even 11 years into his career. The team did throw bombs to him on double moves, but Schaub didn't have the arm to get it to him in stride. We've all said it for years. All you had to do was watch AJ slow up and catch a 40 yard pass and then get tackled. Whenever I brought it up, there was always someone there to dismiss the idea that Schaub arm strength was an issue. Well, Keenum hit AJ in stride on the same routes and you didn't see AJ slowing up for the ball and the defenders never caught him.

So yeah, AJ's career has been largely wasted to this point.

DocBar 11-05-2013 07:43 PM

Re: Dre's Recent TD Success - Opinions Wanted
 
AJ has always had yards and catches. He just tied for 2nd fastest to 12K yds.
The big play that is missing from AJ's career resume is the 5 yd TD pass to AJ. THAT is where Carr, Schaub and Kubiak have failed AJ's career stats and, potentially, their own career stats. AJ simply isn't targeted regularly in the red zone with Schaub as QB and Kubiak as HC. IMHO, that's more on the latter. Kubiak prefers to hit TE's or run the ball.


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