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WolverineFan 11-04-2013 12:16 AM

Sitting on the lead
 
Tonight was a perfect example of it and how it loses games. We didn't play with the same aggressiveness on offense or defense in the 2nd half. On offense, we stopped with the playaction and downfield passing game and were content to just run clock. On defense, we stopped blitzing and played soft zone and got ripped up. We played not to lose and that's how you lose games. You play to win the games not to not lose them.

I feel bad for Kubiak, I really hope he's okay. He seems like a great man and hopefully he will be just fine. That said, things would not have been different with him there in the 2nd half. We've seen this team blow leads like this before with him at the helm. This team plays scared with the lead. They won't step on the throat. They are content to just sit on it. They have no killer instinct.

If you watched the Steelers/Pats game earlier today you saw what a real team does. The Pats had the Steelers on the ropes late and stepped on their throats and routed them out of the building. That team was trying to score touchdowns on every drive with a lead late in the game. That kind of aggressiveness and intensity is something this team has never had and is sorely lacking. It's been a dark mark on this franchise for years. We always manage to blow games like this because of the attitude we play with when we have a lead.

JCTexan 11-04-2013 12:26 AM

Re: Sitting on the lead
 
I agree about sitting on the lead. At the same time, it's hard to see it as "sitting on the lead" when Bullock is missing game changing FG's. If he hits a couple of those FG's you're looking at a 30-12 lead instead of a 24-12 one. Such a huge difference in those scores in the 4th Quarter of a game.

NastyNate 11-04-2013 12:30 AM

Re: Sitting on the lead
 
Blown call on clearly a 3rd down catch, blown FG kicks, what else do you expect?

Mr teX 11-04-2013 12:32 AM

Re: Sitting on the lead
 
Well we've got better qb play....Case hasn't thrown an int and hasn't given the other team points.......and guess what? The defense still sucks....play well for a 1/2.... Stink it up for another......that's pretty much how the whole team has been playing all year...people just got distracted and looked over the defense b/c of the pick 6 derby we had going.

#1 defense my ass...when we absolutely have to have it, they can't stop anybody...... They're frauds....been saying it since week 3-4. 20 pts in the 2nd half 15 pts in the 4th......terrible. The sad part about it is i still see folks giving them a pass....the focus is now shifting from the pick 6's and TO's to the **** kicker...

WolverineFan 11-04-2013 12:33 AM

Re: Sitting on the lead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JCTexan (Post 2242267)
I agree about sitting on the lead. At the same time, it's hard to see it as "sitting on the lead" when Bullock is missing game changing FG's. If he hits a couple of those FG's you're looking at a 30-12 lead instead of a 24-12 one. Such a huge difference in those scores in the 4th Quarter of a game.

You are correct, big difference. However.....

3 TD's in the 1st half

3 FG's in the 2nd half

We did not play the same offense in the 2nd half. They played conservative and were content to run clock and play for the FG. Keenum took some shots (to his credit), but on the whole, you cannot say we played with the same aggressiveness.

Hervoyel 11-04-2013 12:34 AM

Re: Sitting on the lead
 
We do sit on the lead too much. It's not just Gary but the entire organization is like that. I get the idea that at some point you take your foot off the pedal. I just think that point should be about the time you're breaking 40 points. We have no go-for-the-throat mentality in this franchise.

It's a shame but maybe after all these years they'll learn it.... slowly..... the way they learn stuff around here.

WolverineFan 11-04-2013 12:36 AM

Re: Sitting on the lead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr teX (Post 2242281)
Well we've got better qb play....Case hasn't thrown an int and hasn't given the other team points.......and guess what? The defense still sucks....play well for a 1/2.... Stink it up for another......that's pretty much how the whole team has been playing all year...people just got distracted and looked over the defense b/c of the pick 6 derby we had going.

#1 defense my ass...when we absolutely have to have it, they can't stop anybody...... They're frauds....been saying it since week 3-4. 20 pts in the 2nd half 15 pts in the 4th......terrible. The sad part about it is i still see folks giving them a pass....the focus is now shifting from the pick 6's and TO's to the ****ty kicker.

Defense played with a completely different mentality in the 2nd half. We lived in the backfield in the 1st half. Luck was overrun on every drop back. What about the 2nd half? How many times did we play 8 yards off and sit in a soft zone instead of being aggressive?

I do agree though. Not the #1 defense. That said, the reason you saw two different defenses tonight is because we played with two completely different mentalities in each half. I'm not giving them a pass. They played like garbage the 2nd half. My reasoning is because we went into our big lead shell and played soft in the 2nd half instead of going for the kill.

WolverineFan 11-04-2013 12:39 AM

Re: Sitting on the lead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NastyNate (Post 2242275)
Blown call on clearly a 3rd down catch, blown FG kicks, what else do you expect?

Should have never come to that with an 18 point lead. The reason those plays meant anything is because we let Indy back in the game by playing conservative in the 2nd half. JMO.

legacy_gt 11-04-2013 12:39 AM

Re: Sitting on the lead
 
it was more than sitting on the leads. it's not black and white like that. there were some huge calls, especially andre catch that didn't get call or reed's elbow. not to mention we lost our coach.

most of all, this game changes if our FG kicker can get 1 out of 3 FG's. cost us 9 pts!!!! wtf?

Mr teX 11-04-2013 12:40 AM

Re: Sitting on the lead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WolverineFan (Post 2242285)
You are correct, big difference. However.....

3 TD's in the 1st half

3 FG's in the 2nd half

We did not play the same offense in the 2nd half. They played conservative and were content to run clock and play for the FG. Keenum took some shots (to his credit), but on the whole, you cannot say we played with the same aggressiveness.

I mean, give the colts credit, they adjusted...they took away the playaction bootleg and they stiffened a little on the run game...they heated case up and dared him to throw it deep alot. The reality of it is, as much as people like the deep shots, those are low percentage throws...the equivalent of taking 3 pt shots instead of taking the easy 2 in basketball. Most d-coordinators will take there chances with those....if they have confidence in their secondary. Manusky clearly wasn't shaken by keenum's propensity to throw it deep.

hradhak 11-04-2013 12:44 AM

Re: Sitting on the lead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr teX (Post 2242302)
I mean, give the colts credit, they adjusted...they took away the playaction bootleg and they stiffened a little on the run game...they heated case up and dared him to throw it deep alot. The reality of it is, as much as people like the deep shots, those are low percentage throws...the equivalent of taking 3 pt shots instead of taking the easy 2 in basketball. Most d-coordinators will take there chances with those....if they have confidence in their secondary. Manusky clearly wasn't shaken by keenum's propensity to throw it deep.

Even so, Keenum was hitting those throws. I thinik he only missed one deep throw.

I don't blame Keenum for this loss. Yes, it would have been good if they scored a TD in the 2nd half, but our defense shouldn't give up 3 consecutive TDs and our kicker shouldn't be missing 3 FGs. Keenum played well enough to win. The defense and ST played well enough to lose.

WolverineFan 11-04-2013 12:44 AM

Re: Sitting on the lead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr teX (Post 2242302)
I mean, give the colts credit, they adjusted...they took away the playaction bootleg and they stiffened a little on the run game...they heated case up and dared him to throw it deep alot. The reality of it is, as much as people like the deep shots, those are low percentage throws...the equivalent of taking 3 pt shots instead of taking the easy 2 in basketball. Most d-coordinators will take there chances with those....if they have confidence in their secondary. Manusky clearly wasn't shaken by keenum's propensity to throw it deep.

My intention isn't to take credit away from Inday. They made adjustments and are a very good football team. I'm merely pointing out that our mentality in each half was polar opposite.

In the 1st half we attacked. We set the tone. In the 2nd half? We sat back and let Indy take control. Why build a lead like that if you're just going to sit back and let the other team do what they want in the 2nd half?

There are a lot of plays you could point at and say they made the difference. I'm merely trying to point out that IMO, those plays would not have meant anything (or near as much) if we had played with the same aggressive mentality in the 2nd half.

Hervoyel 11-04-2013 12:45 AM

Re: Sitting on the lead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr teX (Post 2242281)
Well we've got better qb play....Case hasn't thrown an int and hasn't given the other team points.......and guess what? The defense still sucks....play well for a 1/2.... Stink it up for another......that's pretty much how the whole team has been playing all year...people just got distracted and looked over the defense b/c of the pick 6 derby we had going.

#1 defense my ass...when we absolutely have to have it, they can't stop anybody...... They're frauds....been saying it since week 3-4. 20 pts in the 2nd half 15 pts in the 4th......terrible. The sad part about it is i still see folks giving them a pass....the focus is now shifting from the pick 6's and TO's to the **** kicker...

I give them a pass not because Bullock stepped up to take the fire from Schaub but because without Cushing and with Reed back there I already understand that they're frauds.

The DL isn't bad at all but frankly Mitchell isn't the guy. We need to beast in the middle and we don't have him. For some reason they don't seem to think that's important.

The LB's aren't bad at all but once Cushing goes down they go from pretty good to very ordinary. We need one or two guys on the inside, maybe another on the outside too. Guys who are better than Sharpton (God he's bad) and better than Mays. Mays should be about at the end of our depth chart but he's not. He's a guy we were depending on.

Our Secondary isn't all that either but everything broken or short-handed in front of them just really puts them on the spot. Add to that the "play" of Ed Reed and the fact that we've got guys like Brice McCain still seeing major time and we need players. We should have kept Quinn, still gone out and drafted Swearinger.... Then gone and found a better CB than McCain. He's the test. As long as Brice McCain has a job our secondary still needs help.

I know the parts that are broken, I think we all do. With an offense not spotting the opponent 7 points every week and with a kicker who actually hits a FG when it's needed I think the defense is broken but mostly ok.

I don't even care anymore this year. I just want to see Keenum keep developing and win some games. I need to see that he's the real thing so I can feel good about the Texans passing on a high-end QB in next year's draft which will hopefully fix some of this ****.

Mr teX 11-04-2013 12:49 AM

Re: Sitting on the lead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hradhak (Post 2242305)
Even so, Keenum was hitting those throws. I thinik he only missed one deep throw.

I don't blame Keenum for this loss. Yes, it would have been good if they scored a TD in the 2nd half, but our defense shouldn't give up 3 consecutive TDs and our kicker shouldn't be missing 3 FGs. Keenum played well enough to win. The defense and ST played well enough to lose.

I wanna say He missed 3...2 were EZ shots...

But Im not blaming him either...merely stating that manusky continued to take his chances with keenum throwing it deep even though his defense got burned for 2 TD's on deep throws earlier.

legacy_gt 11-04-2013 12:51 AM

Re: Sitting on the lead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr teX (Post 2242309)
I wanna say He missed 3...2 were EZ shots...

But Im not blaming him either...merely stating that manusky continued to take his chances with keenum throwing it deep even though his defense got burned for 2 TD's on deep throws earlier.

luck missed a wide open guy in the end zone. our defense also gave up some 2 pt conversions.

WolverineFan 11-04-2013 12:52 AM

Re: Sitting on the lead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hradhak (Post 2242305)
Even so, Keenum was hitting those throws. I thinik he only missed one deep throw.

I don't blame Keenum for this loss. Yes, it would have been good if they scored a TD in the 2nd half, but our defense shouldn't give up 3 consecutive TDs and our kicker shouldn't be missing 3 FGs. Keenum played well enough to win. The defense and ST played well enough to lose.

Keenum played great. Very impressive.

The problem is we had 483 yards and scored 24 points. We were too content to sit on the lead and play for FG's instead of blowing the game open. New England went up 10 points on Pittsburgh at the start of the 4th quarter. Did they sit on the lead? No, they won by 24 and blew them out of the building. We had that opportunity and we pissed it away by playing pvssy-foot football in the 2nd half.

hradhak 11-04-2013 12:55 AM

Re: Sitting on the lead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr teX (Post 2242309)
I wanna say He missed 3...2 were EZ shots...

But Im not blaming him either...merely stating that manusky continued to take his chances with keenum throwing it deep even though his defense got burned for 2 TD's on deep throws earlier.

I think with a little more time under center, Keenum will iron out some of his inaccuracies on the shorter throws. I will happily take 50% on the deep balls (I think that's what the % was). He missed a few slants that could have extended drives. I think he read the defense better and picked up the blitzes.

I do think not having Foster really hurt this team more than we realize. Our running game could have killed more clock down the stretch. Tate and Johnson played well, but Foster seems to have an extra level against the Colts

Mr teX 11-04-2013 12:57 AM

Re: Sitting on the lead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hervoyel (Post 2242308)
I give them a pass not because Bullock stepped up to take the fire from Schaub but because without Cushing and with Reed back there I already understand that they're frauds.

The DL isn't bad at all but frankly Mitchell isn't the guy. We need to beast in the middle and we don't have him. For some reason they don't seem to think that's important.

The LB's aren't bad at all but once Cushing goes down they go from pretty good to very ordinary. We need one or two guys on the inside, maybe another on the outside too. Guys who are better than Sharpton (God he's bad) and better than Mays. Mays should be about at the end of our depth chart but he's not. He's a guy we were depending on.

Our Secondary isn't all that either but everything broken or short-handed in front of them just really puts them on the spot. Add to that the "play" of Ed Reed and the fact that we've got guys like Brice McCain still seeing major time and we need players. We should have kept Quinn, still gone out and drafted Swearinger.... Then gone and found a better CB than McCain. He's the test. As long as Brice McCain has a job our secondary still needs help.

I know the parts that are broken, I think we all do. With an offense not spotting the opponent 7 points every week and with a kicker who actually hits a FG when it's needed I think the defense is broken but mostly ok.

I don't even care anymore this year. I just want to see Keenum keep developing and win some games. I need to see that he's the real thing so I can feel good about the Texans passing on a high-end QB in next year's draft which will hopefully fix some of this ****.

Agree with the bolded...Case looks good and im just about ready to jump on the bandwagon....just need to see him keep it up for a couple more games to convince me we can put off taking a qb early though....i'm already resigned to the fact that he is likely saving kubiak's job....oh well, you cant have everything i guess..

hradhak 11-04-2013 12:57 AM

Re: Sitting on the lead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by WolverineFan (Post 2242317)
Keenum played great. Very impressive.

The problem is we had 483 yards and scored 24 points. We were too content to sit on the lead and play for FG's instead of blowing the game open. New England went up 10 points on Pittsburgh at the start of the 4th quarter. Did they sit on the lead? No, they won by 24 and blew them out of the building. We had that opportunity and we pissed it away by playing pvssy-foot football in the 2nd half.

I blame some of that on playcalling though. Keenum played well enough to win in the end. Giving up 3 consecutive TDs on defense, some terrible ref calls, and an inexplicable 3rd down overturn on the field was ridiculous. Yes it would have been great to step on the gas, but the Colts adjusted and started reading our plays. We needed to keep throwing new stuff out there and didn't

hradhak 11-04-2013 01:01 AM

Re: Sitting on the lead
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr teX (Post 2242327)
Agree with the bolded...Case looks good and im just about ready to jump on the bandwagon....just need to see him keep it up for a couple more games to convince me we can put off taking a qb early though....i'm already resigned to the fact that he is likely saving kubiak's job....oh well, you cant have everything i guess..

I'd be fine with Kubiak going. I wonder though how much influence Kubiak can have on getting Keenum to grow, or is that something he would do under a new coach on his own. Keenum looks good enough to succeed in any system. He can make throws that Schaub can't. I definitely think Schaub's stat success was largely the system he was in.

If Keenum finishes strong the rest of the way, I don't think you need a QB in the draft. I'd rather we spend high draft picks on a NT, ILB, FS / SS, and a RT. It's obvious that our deficiency at this point is really on defense.


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