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-   -   Question for the anti-Keenum crowd (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102581)

HTown2ATX 10-17-2013 08:57 PM

Question for the anti-Keenum crowd
 
Are you even going to give him as a fan the same rope you would afford any other first time starting QB?

You do realize that's what he is one and ANY other first time starter would be given rope to hang himself with (meaning multiple games...more than 2 at bare....bare minimum). I feel like I can already hear the mouth breathing hyperventilating from some fans in general, not just on TT but everywhere just waiting to chortle at that first pick he throws (never mind he is playing against a bad ass Chiefs defense AND Kubiak will probably still shackle him play call wise).

Schaub has had plenty of time to be "the guy" and frankly has melted down and now he is injured and unless you have rainbow and lollipop fantasies about still winning a SB this year why would you be so against seeing what the kid has? We saw plenty of Yates in the past, we know what he has. Time to see what we have in the cupboard or would it be better to continue to just slurp at the altar of mediocrity whilst grabbing ankle as a fan base per the norm and just be satisfied with scraping into the playoffs with Yates, Schaub or X, Y, Z QB we could sign off his couch?

I'm honestly NOT trying to attack your position, I am trying to understand it. I feel like we are dealing with simple concepts here but some how it became splitting the atom all the sudden.

For the record, I don't think the majority of Keenum supporters think he is the savior....I don't until I see otherwise. But is it THAT hard to see we're not going anywhere with Schaub or Yates at QB? Hell I would be fine with fuqng Big Bird starting a damn game compared to the decrepit vomitous abomination I have seen the last few games if nothing else to see this coach and front office finally make some kind, any kind of ballsy move. Jeebus.

rmartin65 10-17-2013 09:01 PM

Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd
 
... Yes?

What the Keenum fan club is missing is that people are not "anti-Keenum". They/we are anti-unfounded hype/ridiculous hyperbole/expectations. I think that most every fan of the Texans wants to see Keenum succeed.

2012Champs 10-17-2013 09:02 PM

Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rmartin65 (Post 2231930)
... Yes?

What the Keenum fan club is missing is that people are not "anti-Keenum". They/we are anti-unfounded hype/ridiculous hyperbole/expectations. I think that most every fan of the Texans wants to see Keenum succeed.


Spot on for me, msr

silvrhand 10-17-2013 09:04 PM

Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rmartin65 (Post 2231930)
... Yes?

What the Keenum fan club is missing is that people are not "anti-Keenum". They/we are anti-unfounded hype/ridiculous hyperbole/expectations. I think that most every fan of the Texans wants to see Keenum succeed.

100% agree, I'm not anti Keenum but I'm not pumping sunshine up my own ass because I don't think this is a great scenario for us. The chances that we have been stuffing an all pro-bowl QB that noone else knew about on our roster is very low.

- John

HTown2ATX 10-17-2013 09:05 PM

Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rmartin65 (Post 2231930)
... Yes?

What the Keenum fan club is missing is that people are not "anti-Keenum". They/we are anti-unfounded hype/ridiculous hyperbole/expectations. I think that most every fan of the Texans wants to see Keenum succeed.

I get that. But not all Keenum "supporters" are wanting to see him play because of some delusion of grandeur or some hype. It's because this team has become the definition of insanity and that frustration is pouring out in the form of wanting to see something different.

So it's the same type of frustration.

HTown2ATX 10-17-2013 09:07 PM

Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by silvrhand (Post 2231934)
100% agree, I'm not anti Keenum but I'm not pumping sunshine up my own ass because I don't think this is a great scenario for us. The chances that we have been stuffing an all pro-bowl QB that noone else knew about on our roster is very low.

- John

This is what is frustrating me....WHO is saying he is the next Pro Bowl QB? Did anyone read the OP?

W-H-O is saying he is the savior? I need to know who is instigating all this confusion??

I'm not saying he is the next Montana. You guys just want to keep seeing the same ole same ole?

Also, as most probably know, I am the bane of sunshine pumpers so there is none of that going on here.

:EDIT: that my frustration is not at you personally, I just don't get how half the fans are misreading the other half of the fans and vice versa.

utahmark 10-17-2013 09:09 PM

Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd
 
I'm not anti-Keenum but I do think he gets way to much hype because he is a local kid. He's an undrafted former 3rd string Qb. If he was from anywhere else this would'nt be news at all. Add to that the fact that UofH QB's have really underperformed in the NFL and I don't have much faith. Although the fact that he's getting a chance says something about him. You guys have got me excited to see what happens anyway.

This team was'nt going anywhere so lets see what the kid has got. I'm way more excited for this weekend than I was. At the very least he has givin me an extra week hope.

It's the right choice to start him this week, I don't see how anyone can argue with that.

Corrosion 10-17-2013 09:09 PM

Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd
 
Im not anti-Keenum. I hope he goes out there and plays well enough to make us forget about drafting a QB early in the next draft ....


I just don't have very high expectations. I saw a couple flaws in him during the preseason playing against mostly backups. Now he's going to face what appears to be the best defense in the NFL this season .... in his first ever regular season action.
I think that's a lot to ask and any expectations have to be tempered.


Hope he looks like Drew Brees on his best day ... but don't expect much.

I'd settle for a mistake free game - No INT's , no fumbles while making the right decisions and giving his receivers a chance to make plays .... win or lose.


I think one thing that's key to his success is taking the top off that defense. As it stands now , they aren't afraid of deep balls or big plays. The opposing DB's aren't afraid to gamble and jump routes because the consequences aren't significant - they give up 10 yards and the safety makes the tackle .... big deal , that's a solid risk vs reward for the defender.

They have to make them afraid of giving up 6 points instead of 10 yards .... and I really don't believe Schaub was capable of making the throws that increase the risk for the defense which is why we haven't seen them. If Keenum is .... that changes the dynamic of this entire offense.

silvrhand 10-17-2013 09:29 PM

Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HTown2ATX (Post 2231937)
This is what is frustrating me....WHO is saying he is the next Pro Bowl QB? Did anyone read the OP?

W-H-O is saying he is the savior? I need to know who is instigating all this confusion??

I'm not saying he is the next Montana. You guys just want to keep seeing the same ole same ole?

Also, as most probably know, I am the bane of sunshine pumpers so there is none of that going on here.

:EDIT: that my frustration is not at you personally, I just don't get how half the fans are misreading the other half of the fans and vice versa.

No worries I'm very frustrated as well, we have way too much talent on this team to be 2-4 but it just goes to show us that the most important player is the QB. Man have you listened to the radio today, have you seen the 15 page Case Keenum thread?

I'm tired of messing around with Kubiak, I want a f'ing winner on this team from a coach, and a QB. I want a warrior, a fighter, a leader.. Not a friggin denny's menu...

So I guess my frustration is on multiple levels at this point.

PapaL 10-17-2013 09:38 PM

Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rmartin65 (Post 2231930)
... Yes?

What the Keenum fan club is missing is that people are not "anti-Keenum". They/we are anti-unfounded hype/ridiculous hyperbole/expectations. I think that most every fan of the Texans wants to see Keenum succeed.

That sums it up nicely.

Idgaf who the QB is, I will support him/her/it. I expect people to be just a hard as they would be on anyone else that is playing QB. If he makes a mistake, say it's a mistake and move on.

dream_team 10-17-2013 09:49 PM

Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd
 
I'm not anti-Keenum as well, but I am hesitant that he'll come in and do better than Schaub. He may do better than Schaub the past 4 games, that's not too difficult. But I don't think he'll do better than the Schaub we've seen in the past. And yes, I do believe Schaub can regain his old form.

To be honest, I don't care who our QB is, I just want to win!

Speedy 10-17-2013 09:51 PM

Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Corrosion (Post 2231940)
I just don't have very high expectations.

And realistically, we shouldn't have high excectations. He's an undrafted, unproven player. But that doesn't make him a never-will-be either.

I'm a fan of his. More so now that he's with the Texans as I would be less of a fan if he was with another team. From everything I've ever read, seen or heard about him, he studies the film and works his ass off. What that translates into, no one knows until he gets on the field. I do know what not doing the film study and thinking you can get by in this league on athleticism alone gets you. A sausage peddler.

Case gets his 1st shot Sunday. And that one shot Sunday really isn't going to answer any questions. If he plays poorly, it's his 1st ever game against an elite D. If he plays good, it's just one game. Even David Carr had a good game against somebody one time....probably. And it will be just one shot....for now. Schaub is back under center in 2 weeks for Indy. Make no mistake about that.

Does Case get a lot of hype because he's local? Yeah he does. So what? How often do we get to hype something up in this town?

b0ng 10-17-2013 10:01 PM

Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd
 
I like Keenum but there are a few posters on this board that make him out to be greatly overlooked talent when I doubt that is what is happening. He will have to be fairly spectacular (whether that's fair or not) if he's going to start over an uninjured Schaub.

leebigeztx 10-17-2013 10:19 PM

Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rmartin65 (Post 2231930)
... Yes?

What the Keenum fan club is missing is that people are not "anti-Keenum". They/we are anti-unfounded hype/ridiculous hyperbole/expectations. I think that most every fan of the Texans wants to see Keenum succeed.

Spot on for me too. I never root against young guys.When posters start using college as a reason,that's part of my thing. I hope he plays well,but the elephant in the room is andrew luck. They have luck,we're starting a guy who wasn't drafted. Let that sink in.

chicagotexan2 10-17-2013 10:30 PM

Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd
 
I like that he's a coog but realistically I'm not expecting much. I'm mostly sick of seeing what used to be a good QB regress into a rookie. I'm done with Yates playing like Schaub. I'd like to think he can succeed but the oline is below average on pass protection and hell still be running the same plays that helped doom the other 2 qbs. Like I said I'm ready to see if someone can do the job that the starter failed to accomplish which is to manage the game and not phk it up.

The Pencil Neck 10-17-2013 11:07 PM

Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd
 
Prior to the season, I stated that I thought we should go with Schaub because of his experience in the system and because he gives us the best chance of winning by NOT making mistakes. He was at his best last year when he was working entirely within the system and not trying to pus things, just taking what the defense was giving whether that was the long ball (Denver) or the short ball (1st Jacksonville game.)

But the last several games (going back to last season), Schaub has not been that guy. He's making uncharacteristic mistakes and they look unforced. Sometimes guys get into slumps and have to play their way out of it. I've been waiting for Schaub to wake up and it hasn't been happening. (Although that last game was more on the rest of the team for me.)

I know a lot of people are touchy about this but I don't think Kubiak made a mistake by sticking with a guy he's had some success with and a guy he trusts. I'm not anti-Kubiak like a lot of people here. I think he's a good coach with a good team.

But.

I'm excited about Keenum. I'm excited to see what he can do when bullets start flying for real. I'm hoping he's a gamer and I'm hoping the rest of the team is going to rally around his spark.

I was hoping that we'd be able to draft a good QB next draft and have a year or two to develop him. But if Schaub doesn't turn his head around, then we don't have the year or two I thought we did. If that's the case, I hope Case is The Guy. I hope Case becomes the next Warner/Brady, an unheralded UDFA/late rounder taking over for an incumbent QB knocked out of the line-up by injury and leading his team to the Super Bowl.

He's my QB and he's on my team so I'm going to be rooting for him.

thunderkyss 10-17-2013 11:25 PM

Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by b0ng (Post 2231963)
I like Keenum but there are a few posters on this board that make him out to be greatly overlooked talent when I doubt that is what is happening. He will have to be fairly spectacular (whether that's fair or not) if he's going to start over an uninjured Schaub.

I think Schaub is good enough to win a Super Bowl. I think he's in a slump right now, but I believe he'll get back to at least his early 2011 form which is consistently better than average. I put him on par with Romo, Ryan, Flacco, & Eli... ring or no ring those guys aren't any different to me... well, they're very different QBs, but you get the same results. Play makers around them have to make plays if their teams are going to win Super Bowls.

& that's all I expect of Keenum, consistently above average. He doesn't have to be consistently above average this year, he's basically a rookie, but he's got to be above average from time to time. However, I hope he inspires the team to go into beast mode that we all know they are capable of achieving. If we ever had a shot at winning a Super Bowl with Schaub, this team is going to have to play a whole lot better than they have at anytime this year... both sides of the ball.

I don't want to see this team consistently give up TDs on drives more than 50 yards, even to the Bradies, Rodgers, Breeses, & Peytons of the league. That's the way a #1 defense plays. We're handing out 90 yard drives to Jake Locker & Joe Flacco....... that can't happen. They start on the other side of the 50, we should expect to give up no points unless it's Brady, Rodgers, Brees, or Peyton & even then shouldn't be more than a FG more often than not.

I want to see us consistently convert 3rd down, especially 3rd & 1... we should expect it & unless we're in the Super Bowl our coach should not have to be in a position where we have to go for it on 4th & 1. I want him to make that decision throughout the season, I just don't want him to have to unless we're in the Super Bowl.

If this team steps it up a notch, I don't care about Keenum's stats other than turnovers. He can't lose games for us. If he gets leveled in the backfield, he can't lose the ball. Schaub is still pretty good about that. He can't throw multiple INTs a game.... He can't make bad decisions like Tj did on both of his INTs (the first one was telegraphed, the second has a poor decision to not set his feet before making that throw).

If this team continues to play the way it has, Keenum can't do anything to convince me not to clean house. Defensive Coordinator, HC, & QB has got to go.

ArlingtonTexan 10-17-2013 11:26 PM

Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rmartin65 (Post 2231930)
... Yes?

What the Keenum fan club is missing is that people are not "anti-Keenum". They/we are anti-unfounded hype/ridiculous hyperbole/expectations. I think that most every fan of the Texans wants to see Keenum succeed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvrhand (Post 2231934)
100% agree, I'm not anti Keenum but I'm not pumping sunshine up my own ass because I don't think this is a great scenario for us. The chances that we have been stuffing an all pro-bowl QB that noone else knew about on our roster is very low.

- John

These have typed what I have been posting/thinking.

That said, I am not going stop wishing the best for "hope and change" keenum if he has a bad game against the hottest pass rush in the league. One good or bad game does not make a career. Remember Matt Flynn once dropped 6TDs in a real NFL game, and could not keep a QB job after two teams gave him real $$$$.

WolverineFan 10-17-2013 11:40 PM

Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rmartin65 (Post 2231930)
... Yes?

What the Keenum fan club is missing is that people are not "anti-Keenum". They/we are anti-unfounded hype/ridiculous hyperbole/expectations. I think that most every fan of the Texans wants to see Keenum succeed.

Nailed it.

We're all rooting for him. Nobody wants to see him fail. But his little fan club here walks around with ridiculous unfounded hype and a huge chip on its shoulder.

Texanmike02 10-17-2013 11:54 PM

Re: Question for the anti-Keenum crowd
 
I'm a Texans fan. I don't care about the number or the name attached to the jersey, I'm a Texans fan. If Derek Carr's older brother can come here and win a super bowl, I'm down. I really don't care. If Schaub gets traded to Dallas he will be as close as it gets to my mortal enemy.

I am neither a Case fan or "anti-Case". I said at the outset of the season that if Schaub wasn't healthy that Case was our only hope to win and I stand by that. Yates is a less talented more mobile version of Schaub. If we threaten to start "Schaub or Yates" the defense just prepares for Schaub and doesn't worry about Yates because he is Schaub lite. Case though, is more dynamic. We don't know what he can do but we don't know what he can't do either. I'm excited to see him start and I hope he will do well. I'm not sure what I think he'll do though.

I can remember when we were in the middle of our second season we had a kid come in that a lot of people thought was going to be better than HWWNBN. Of course he started 2 games and after he left Houston he went on to win a league MVP and 10 years later he's a QB coach for our mortal enemies, the Titans. I don't think the offense scored a point in the two games he played for use either.

Boards were lit up with excitement though because people just knew that he was sooo talented. It didn't work. I remember when Moon struggled and everybody want Cody to start.

I'm not saying that will happen to Case. I actually think he's pretty talented and stands a chance to have a better year than Matt if Matt isn't going to regain mobility because our next ESPN commercial might have number 8, a center and a left tackle.

Honestly though, if we don't get our team more disciplined we don't stand a chance against anyone, ergo the Rams game. Maybe THAT was the wakeup call, who knows.

Mike


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