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-   -   If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB? (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102037)

Texecutioner 09-18-2013 09:25 PM

If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?
 
My buddies and I had this discussion the other day and we all came to the same conclusion that neither of them would and they would be on the sidelines behind Matt Schaub.

Now if you agree with this, I'd say that this is a huge problem with our HC. Now this is not a "Fire Kubiak" thread or anything, because we all know that idea isn't even up for debate. However, Kubiak's stubbornness has always been a huge problem. I think Kubiak is fully willing to ride Schaub until he is either hurt or until it is to late. I don't think that Kubiak will have any intention what so ever to even consider another QB for maybe another two years. We are in a win now mode, and I felt like our offense looked so much better and had way more versatility when Keenum was running it in the pre season. I'm not trying to suggest that Keenum should start right now, but for the first time I started really liking this Texans Kubiak offense when I saw a mobile guy with a stronger arm running it.

Do you feel that Kaepernick or Wilson would start here "right now?" And if you don't how in the world could you justify that not as a huge problem with the HC's judgement?

Again, this is not some Fire Kubiak thread and I don't want it to go that route. We had this discussion the other day and I thought it was very interesting to discuss.

Tailgate 09-18-2013 09:30 PM

Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?
 
The debate must first start with Schaub being greater than either Matt Flynn or Alex Smith.

Second, who the heck knows? I know you want to pick on the idea of Kubiaks stubbornness. But what stubbornness of his do you speak of when it comes to the QB position?

dream_team 09-18-2013 09:32 PM

Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?
 
I think it depends on how well they are learning the offense. I don't think Kubiak is stubborn in giving a guy a chance, but he is stubborn in the sense that players should run the offense the way he designed it to be. In other words, if Kaep or Wilson play, and they are opting to run and freelance too much, instead of running the play as it was designed... then yes, I say Kubiak benches them in favor of Matt.

I don't think Kubiak is afraid to give player's chances. If he was stubborn, we'd probably still be seeing Steve Slaton with Arian on the bench. We'd still have KW as the #2, with Hopkins on some other team.

ubecool454 09-18-2013 09:33 PM

Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?
 
This is a silly thread.

Texecutioner 09-18-2013 09:37 PM

Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tailgate (Post 2212199)
The debate must first start with Schaub being greater than either Matt Flynn or Alex Smith.

Second, who the heck knows?? I know you want to pick on the idea of Kubiaks stubbornness. But what stubbornness of his do you speak of when it comes to the QB position?

Well, I just think that Kubiak likes Schaub because Schaub is a "yes man." He will do whatever Kubiak says and wants and is very under "his control." Schaub doesn't try to deviate from his game plan or improvise which is what a lot of QB's have to do now days more then anything. I don't think that Kubiak trusts Schaub to do a whole lot either which bothers me, because if he is going to be your guy then why not allow him to do a little bit more on his own since he has been in this system for a long time and Schaub is a pretty seasoned vet. I think Kubiak has his plays that he likes and he doesn't really like to adapt away from it depending on who we're playing or what the system of the other team's defense is. I think that Gary has his system and he runs that system the way he plans going into a game and he won't deviate from that plan no matter what circumstances are in a game. And Schaub listens, and Gary likes that.

Now, Kaepernick and Wilson are two great talents. But would they have ever gotten a real chance if they were on this team? THere has never really been an open competition at QB for Schaub. Not that there has been hardly anyone to really compete for it until this off season, but I don't think that Gary has any care in the world to even look.

The Pencil Neck 09-18-2013 09:40 PM

Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?
 
I don't think either one of them would have pushed Schaub out of the Starter's job when they were rookies and possibly, not even second year players.

But if we had drafted Kaepernick, I think he would have been the starter this year. Those sorts of QBs with that sort of athletic potential in this sort of offense would be... simply... unstoppable.

The only problem they would have in unseating Schaub is their ability to read the defense and their ability to know the playbook. Schaub's experience and his knowledge would give him an advantage but eventually... and I'm thinking "eventually would be their 3rd year... they would know enough of the offense so that their athletic abilities would tip the scales in their favor.

If they didn't pick up the offense, though, they would never start regardless of athletic potential.

ChampionTexan 09-18-2013 09:41 PM

Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?
 
Considering the only way that either one of them could be a Texan would be by getting selected higher in the draft than the Texans have ever taken a QB, with the exception of HWSNBN, I would say yes. Rick and Gary wouldn't use that high a pick without the absolute expectation of them becoming a starter relatively quickly.

Texecutioner 09-18-2013 09:43 PM

Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dream_team (Post 2212201)

I don't think Kubiak is afraid to give player's chances. If he was stubborn, we'd probably still be seeing Steve Slaton with Arian on the bench. We'd still have KW as the #2, with Hopkins on some other team.

I think you'd have to admit that these two are horrible examples.

Slaton was playing awful before getting benched and he got benched like 3 times before getting hurt and got extra chances. Slaton kept fumbling and couldn't run anywhere for a positive yardage. It was a no brainer to bench Slaton and Foster wasn't put in right away. That other small back was put in, and he didn't do fantastic either. That was when Foster "finally"got this shot at the end of the season when everything was over. That was a huge failure of Kubiak actually for not giving Foster a chance earlier.

And Hopkins??? Dude, are you forgetting that Walter was here like two years to long? Kubiak held onto that guy and Jacoby way to long and it hurt the team. The Texans refused to ever go after a quality free agent receiver. They were forced to use an early draft pick this season on Hopkins and hopefully it ends up working out. It looks like it is, but we still have a long way to go.


Both of the examples you cited actually make my point even further. These were both examples where Kubiak's lack of trust in Foster had him on the bench when we really needed him over these other guys and Walter was a guy that we held onto for way to long and didn't properly try to address the receiver position.

Texecutioner 09-18-2013 09:44 PM

Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChampionTexan (Post 2212210)
Considering the only way that either one of them could be a Texan would be by getting selected higher in the draft than the Texans have ever taken a QB, with the exception of HWSNBN, I would say yes. Rick and Gary wouldn't use that high a pick without the absolute expectation of them becoming a starter relatively quickly.

That has nothing to do with the main question of the thread. The "what if" scenario of when and where they would have been drafted isn't what is being talked about or should be. If either was on this team would they start? I don't care how they got on it.

busterspencer 09-18-2013 09:45 PM

Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dream_team (Post 2212201)
I think it depends on how well they are learning the offense. I don't think Kubiak is stubborn in giving a guy a chance, but he is stubborn in the sense that players should run the offense the way he designed it to be. In other words, if Kaep or Wilson play, and they are opting to run and freelance too much, instead of running the play as it was designed... then yes, I say Kubiak benches them in favor of Matt.

I don't think Kubiak is afraid to give player's chances. If he was stubborn, we'd probably still be seeing Steve Slaton with Arian on the bench. We'd still have KW as the #2, with Hopkins on some other team.

I remember all of the back up QBs that the fans wanted to play ahead of the starter. When it came time for them to shine, in regular season, they fell apart. The only thing wrong with Schaub is that he throws behind the reciever a lot of times.

dream_team 09-18-2013 09:52 PM

Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by busterspencer (Post 2212216)
I remember all of the back up QBs that the fans wanted to play ahead of the starter. When it came time for them to shine, in regular season, they fell apart. The only thing wrong with Schaub is that he throws behind the reciever a lot of times.

Exactly... Cody Carlson, Bucky Richardson, and Sage come to mind.

Thorn 09-18-2013 09:52 PM

Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?
 
Let's line up Schaub, Yates and Keenum and have 'em all pee on an electric fence. The one smart enough to hold his dick with his left hand will be our new starter.

ChampionTexan 09-18-2013 09:57 PM

Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Texecutioner (Post 2212214)
That has nothing to do with the main question of the thread. The "what if" scenario of when and where they would have been drafted isn't what is being talked about or should be. If either was on this team would they start? I don't care how they got on it.

In my mind, it has everything to do with the question. The Forty-Niners drafted Kaepernick because Harbaugh and Trent Baalke felt they needed a QB. The Seahawks drafted Russell Wilson because John Schneider - and probably Pete Carrol - felt they needed a QB. They didn't just land on a roster where everyone was happy with the QB they had, and while I will say, giving a third round rookie a starting QB job took some nerve, he was competing with a guy who entered the competition with a grand total of two NFL starts to his name (and FWIW, still has two NFL starts to his name, and just got passed over again in a similar set of circumstances). Maybe we should be talking about what a visionary, gutsy organization the Raiders are.

By definition, two guys as highly regarded as Kaepernick and Wilson were coming out of college are only going to end up on a roster if whoever is making the decision on that roster genuinely believe they need a QB.

I guess it's just as valid to ask if the Niners and Seahawks would have drafted Kaepernick and Wilson if they already had a QB they felt was adequate?

dream_team 09-18-2013 09:58 PM

Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Texecutioner (Post 2212211)
I think you'd have to admit that these two are horrible examples.

Slaton was playing awful before getting benched and he got benched like 3 times before getting hurt and got extra chances. Slaton kept fumbling and couldn't run anywhere for a positive yardage. It was a no brainer to bench Slaton and Foster wasn't put in right away. That other small back was put in, and he didn't do fantastic either. That was when Foster "finally"got this shot at the end of the season when everything was over. That was a huge failure of Kubiak actually for not giving Foster a chance earlier.

And Hopkins??? Dude, are you forgetting that Walter was here like two years to long? Kubiak held onto that guy and Jacoby way to long and it hurt the team. The Texans refused to ever go after a quality free agent receiver. They were forced to use an early draft pick this season on Hopkins and hopefully it ends up working out. It looks like it is, but we still have a long way to go.


Both of the examples you cited actually make my point even further. These were both examples where Kubiak's lack of trust in Foster had him on the bench when we really needed him over these other guys and Walter was a guy that we held onto for way to long and didn't properly try to address the receiver position.

You want to be able to give your backups a chance to start, but at the same time, you want to give your struggling starters a chance to redeem themselves.

I remember a time when fans had enough of Kareem Jackson, Chris Myers, and Duane Brown... and wanted to see them gone. It's not always a good idea to give up on guys too early.

CloakNNNdagger 09-18-2013 10:10 PM

Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?
 
I'll come back with a simple answer................When Schaub got his new contract, "open competition" left the building with Elvis.:mcnugget:

ChampionTexan 09-18-2013 10:14 PM

Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger (Post 2212238)
I'll come back with a simple answer................When Schaub got his new contract, "open competition" left the building with Elvis.:mcnugget:

Give me an example of an NFL team where that isn't true.

drs23 09-18-2013 10:14 PM

Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Texecutioner (Post 2212214)
That has nothing to do with the main question of the thread. The "what if" scenario of when and where they would have been drafted isn't what is being talked about or should be. If either was on this team would they start? I don't care how they got on it.

Anybody ever ask you about their Aunt?

The Pencil Neck 09-18-2013 10:18 PM

Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger (Post 2212238)
I'll come back with a simple answer................When Schaub got his new contract, "open competition" left the building with Elvis.:mcnugget:

If you have a couple of guys who could be the guy, then you don't have The Guy.

That's why Harbaugh waited until he had an excuse to insert Kaepernick into the line-up. He didn't want to just yank Smith... who until that point was The Guy.

76Texan 09-18-2013 10:21 PM

Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dream_team (Post 2212225)
You want to be able to give your backups a chance to start, but at the same time, you want to give your struggling starters a chance to redeem themselves.

I remember a time when fans had enough of Kareem Jackson, Chris Myers, and Duane Brown... and wanted to see them gone. It's not always a good idea to give up on guys too early.


:bravo:

Quote:

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger (Post 2212238)
I'll come back with a simple answer................When Schaub got his new contract, "open competition" left the building with Elvis.:mcnugget:

:bravo:
:ahhaha:

76Texan 09-18-2013 10:22 PM

Re: If Kaepernick or Wilson were a Texan would they be the starting QB?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ChampionTexan (Post 2212224)
In my mind, it has everything to do with the question. The Forty-Niners drafted Kaepernick because Harbaugh and Trent Baalke felt they needed a QB. The Seahawks drafted Russell Wilson because John Schneider - and probably Pete Carrol - felt they needed a QB. They didn't just land on a roster where everyone was happy with the QB they had, and while I will say, giving a third round rookie a starting QB job took some nerve, he was competing with a guy who entered the competition with a grand total of two NFL starts to his name (and FWIW, still has two NFL starts to his name, and just got passed over again in a similar set of circumstances). Maybe we should be talking about what a visionary, gutsy organization the Raiders are.

By definition, two guys as highly regarded as Kaepernick and Wilson were coming out of college are only going to end up on a roster if whoever is making the decision on that roster genuinely believe they need a QB.

I guess it's just as valid to ask if the Niners and Seahawks would have drafted Kaepernick and Wilson if they already had a QB they felt was adequate?

Great points.


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