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-   -   Raw Brutality, and Brett Favre’s Class... by Sage Rosenfels (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101340)

Playoffs 08-07-2013 09:32 PM

Raw Brutality, and Brett Favre’s Class... by Sage Rosenfels
 
Not to be missed, a truly excellent piece by Sage...

Raw Brutality, and Brett Favre’s Class
The Vikings-Saints NFC championship will stay with me forever—it was the most physical, and fateful, game I’ve ever been a part of


By Sage Rosenfels


Quote:

I wrote this piece in January 2010, in the few days that followed the NFC Championship Game between the Vikings, where I was the backup quarterback, and the Saints. You may think this game is special for its place in the Saints’ bounty controversy, but to me it’s special for an entirely different reason: In all my experiences in professional football, it best encompasses the true soul of what the NFL is. For my own sanity, I wanted to express my thoughts on the game and take you inside what happened before, during and after it.

***

The game was a media dream. The New Orleans Saints, less than five years after Hurricane Katrina devastated the city and region (including the Superdome, where the game was being played) were hosting the Brett Favre-led Minnesota Vikings. Both teams’ fans had been waiting decades for a Super Bowl berth...

Quote:

He turned to me and said “I choked.”

Malloy 08-08-2013 01:45 AM

Re: Raw Brutality, and Brett Favre’s Class... by Sage Rosenfels
 
Really good piece, thanks for sharing! :)

HJam72 08-08-2013 06:41 AM

Re: Raw Brutality, and Brett Favre’s Class... by Sage Rosenfels
 
I'm sure it was a big play and a great game, but it's OVERHYPED. No way I will remember a player like Brett Favre for one bad play.

What does ruin his memory somewhat is a certain cellphone pic...

Hervoyel 08-08-2013 08:46 AM

Re: Raw Brutality, and Brett Favre’s Class... by Sage Rosenfels
 
Well, since Sage is often remembered for one play I can see how he might feel compelled to write that story.

Good read. Thanks for posting that link.

Rey 08-08-2013 08:56 AM

Re: Raw Brutality, and Brett Favre’s Class... by Sage Rosenfels
 
Favre was amazing that season. I have tremendous respect for Favre as a football player. I really admire how he played the QB position.

eriadoc 08-08-2013 09:38 AM

Re: Raw Brutality, and Brett Favre’s Class... by Sage Rosenfels
 
Just two minutes ago, I saw a ticker on NFLN that showed Favre quote on the NFC CG: "I choked."

So that's what NFLN got out of that story.

CloakNNNdagger 08-08-2013 10:41 AM

Re: Raw Brutality, and Brett Favre’s Class... by Sage Rosenfels
 
Nice piece. Thanks for sharing.

Playoffs 08-08-2013 11:36 AM

Re: Raw Brutality, and Brett Favre’s Class... by Sage Rosenfels
 
I have to say I was in awe of Farve's 2009 season at 40 years old, stepping in to turn that team around and getting within a whisker of it all...

I recall a Vikings DB talking about Farve throwing deep outs dead on the money when he was looking to the other side of the field. I don't think any QB controlled the defense more with head/shoulder/arm/eye fakes.

The1ApplePie 08-08-2013 11:54 AM

Re: Raw Brutality, and Brett Favre’s Class... by Sage Rosenfels
 
I remember watching the game live and thinking that was the worst physical beating I ever saw a QB take in my lifetime.

Knowing what we do now...

Fred 08-08-2013 12:25 PM

Re: Raw Brutality, and Brett Favre’s Class... by Sage Rosenfels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HJam72 (Post 2189876)
I'm sure it was a big play and a great game, but it's OVERHYPED. No way I will remember a player like Brett Favre for one bad play.

What does ruin his memory somewhat is a certain cellphone pic...

I don't remember Favre for that one play. The one play I remember him for is laying down in front of Strahan in order to make a mockery of the sack record. Showed his complete lack of integrity and complete lack of respect for the game. His hundreds of interceptions on throws forced into coverage? So many it is hard to choose, but the one to end his team's chances the very last time does stand out a little - and it summarizes his entire career in one play.

I wonder if this article will be this push that brings him out of retirement this year...

Texecutioner 08-08-2013 01:01 PM

Re: Raw Brutality, and Brett Favre’s Class... by Sage Rosenfels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred (Post 2190011)
I don't remember Favre for that one play. The one play I remember him for is laying down in front of Strahan in order to make a mockery of the sack record. Showed his complete lack of integrity and complete lack of respect for the game. His hundreds of interceptions on throws forced into coverage? So many it is hard to choose, but the one to end his team's chances the very last time does stand out a little - and it summarizes his entire career in one play.

I wonder if this article will be this push that brings him out of retirement this year...

Perfect example of hate clouding common sense and judgement. The guy is arguably top 5 of all time ever. Toughest Qb in history. Hate the man all you want, but to disregard a HOF career and and say that all you remember are picks and forced throws is ignorance on a very high level.

Fred 08-08-2013 10:47 PM

Re: Raw Brutality, and Brett Favre’s Class... by Sage Rosenfels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Texecutioner (Post 2190032)
Perfect example of hate clouding common sense and judgement. The guy is arguably top 5 of all time ever. Toughest Qb in history. Hate the man all you want, but to disregard a HOF career and and say that all you remember are picks and forced throws is ignorance on a very high level.

I explicitly said that was not the main thing I remember.

He hung around a lot of years and is #1 in lots of career categories. Most TD passes. Most Completions. Most Yards Passing. Most Interceptions Thrown. Most Fumbles. Most inappropriate sexts.

The teams he played on won a lot of games. Quite a few games won because of him. But also a LOT of games lost because of him. A lot of QBs have made the plays to win more games that their teams would have lost otherwise than Favre has. But none have made as many plays to lose games that their teams would have won otherwise.

Favre is a better QB than Trent Dilfer. If Dilfer had been the Packers QB the year Favre's team won the Super Bowl they would not have won the Super Bowl because Dilfer could not have led them to the wins. But if Favre's had been the Raven's QB the year Dilfer won the Super Bowl, it's a 80% chance they would not have won because Favre probably would have blown one of the playoff games trying to show off. Like he did most years.

Saying Favre is top 5 is showing the same lack of respect for the game that Favre displayed. That is being awed by the career statistics. I'm more impressed by someone who makes the plays to win and avoids the plays to lose, such as Joe Montana. Even on the Packers, I'll take Bart Starr and his 5 NFL Championships (and his per game averages of 9 completions on 16 attempts for 126 yards) over Favre.

I will put Favre on the top 5 list... of Packers QBs (although some people may feel I am slighting Cecil Isbell and Irv Comp).

1. Bart Starr 5 NFL Championships
2. Arnie Herber 4 NFL Championships
3. Red Dunn 3 NFL Championships
4. Aaron Rodgers 1 NFL Championship (with probably more to come)
5. Brett Favre 1 NFL Championship

It is not just that he is the all time leader in interceptions thrown - that comes long with the other career records due to the longevity. It is that he threw so many idiotic throws that never had a chance and cost his team the game just because he couldn't rein his ego in.

The idiotic interception is not everything about his career, but the other things have been done by other people. Dan Marino had huge career stats. Peyton Manning will have huge career stats. Bradshaw and Montana won more Super Bowls. But the awesomely stupid interception - that really is a Favre thing. It is what truly makes his career unique.

His first regular season pass ever was intercepted and returned for a TD. His last pass as a Packer was an interception to lose the NFC Championship game. And the last play of his career (the second most memorable play of his career) fittingly summed up and typified his entire career: an idiotic interception to lose the NFC Championship game when they were already in field goal range. Goodnight Brett!

eriadoc 08-09-2013 07:58 AM

Re: Raw Brutality, and Brett Favre’s Class... by Sage Rosenfels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred (Post 2190229)
<snip>

Wow, so you must think Barry Sanders really sucks, what with all those drive killing negative yard runs.

Rey 08-09-2013 08:19 AM

Re: Raw Brutality, and Brett Favre’s Class... by Sage Rosenfels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred (Post 2190229)
His first regular season pass ever was intercepted and returned for a TD. His last pass as a Packer was an interception to lose the NFC Championship game. And the last play of his career (the second most memorable play of his career) fittingly summed up and typified his entire career: an idiotic interception to lose the NFC Championship game when they were already in field goal range. Goodnight Brett!

You don't have to like how he played, but the fact is he was an extremely successful QB. One of the most successful in the history of the game. All of the rest of that stuff is not even relevant really.

Fred 08-09-2013 09:08 AM

Re: Raw Brutality, and Brett Favre’s Class... by Sage Rosenfels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eriadoc (Post 2190279)
Wow, so you must think Barry Sanders really sucks, what with all those drive killing negative yard runs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey (Post 2190286)
You don't have to like how he played, but the fact is he was an extremely successful QB. One of the most successful in the history of the game. All of the rest of that stuff is not even relevant really.

It all depends on what you like; apparently y'all like exciting highlights. Then Barry Sanders and Brett Favre are your dream backfield.

"All of the rest of that stuff is not even relevant really." All the rest of that stuff - you mean championships. I prefer championships to highlights. So as I already explained on that basis: Bart Starr » Brett Favre. Barry Sanders doesn't suck, he is better than most. But when it comes to winning championships I'll take the guy who converts 98% of 3rd and 2 to a first down over the guy who converts 60% but pops 5% for a 40 yard gain. So for championships: Emmitt Smith » Barry Sanders.

Rey 08-09-2013 10:27 AM

Re: Raw Brutality, and Brett Favre’s Class... by Sage Rosenfels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred (Post 2190299)
It all depends on what you like; apparently y'all like exciting highlights. Then Barry Sanders and Brett Favre are your dream backfield.

"All of the rest of that stuff is not even relevant really." All the rest of that stuff - you mean championships. I prefer championships to highlights. So as I already explained on that basis: Bart Starr » Brett Favre. Barry Sanders doesn't suck, he is better than most. But when it comes to winning championships I'll take the guy who converts 98% of 3rd and 2 to a first down over the guy who converts 60% but pops 5% for a 40 yard gain. So for championships: Emmitt Smith » Barry Sanders.


I guess you'll take Trent Dilfer over Dan Marino then?

Championships are important, but using it as the bottom line on how you rate individual players in a team game is maybe one of the more ridiculous things I've heard today.


And this morning I heard a guy trying to sell shoe laces.

The Pencil Neck 08-09-2013 11:01 AM

Re: Raw Brutality, and Brett Favre’s Class... by Sage Rosenfels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by eriadoc (Post 2190279)
Wow, so you must think Barry Sanders really sucks, what with all those drive killing negative yard runs.

Personally, I loved watching Barry Sanders but I would have hated having him on my team. He was a boom or bust kind of player and that's not really good for winning. I always preferred a back like Emmitt Smith, not as flashy but much more consistent and still able to break the big one from time to time.

Texecutioner 08-09-2013 11:15 AM

Re: Raw Brutality, and Brett Favre’s Class... by Sage Rosenfels
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fred (Post 2190229)
I explicitly said that was not the main thing I remember.

He hung around a lot of years and is #1 in lots of career categories. Most TD passes. Most Completions. Most Yards Passing. Most Interceptions Thrown. Most Fumbles. Most inappropriate sexts.

The teams he played on won a lot of games. Quite a few games won because of him. But also a LOT of games lost because of him. A lot of QBs have made the plays to win more games that their teams would have lost otherwise than Favre has. But none have made as many plays to lose games that their teams would have won otherwise.

Favre is a better QB than Trent Dilfer. If Dilfer had been the Packers QB the year Favre's team won the Super Bowl they would not have won the Super Bowl because Dilfer could not have led them to the wins. But if Favre's had been the Raven's QB the year Dilfer won the Super Bowl, it's a 80% chance they would not have won because Favre probably would have blown one of the playoff games trying to show off. Like he did most years.

Saying Favre is top 5 is showing the same lack of respect for the game that Favre displayed. That is being awed by the career statistics. I'm more impressed by someone who makes the plays to win and avoids the plays to lose, such as Joe Montana. Even on the Packers, I'll take Bart Starr and his 5 NFL Championships (and his per game averages of 9 completions on 16 attempts for 126 yards) over Favre.

I will put Favre on the top 5 list... of Packers QBs (although some people may feel I am slighting Cecil Isbell and Irv Comp).

1. Bart Starr 5 NFL Championships
2. Arnie Herber 4 NFL Championships
3. Red Dunn 3 NFL Championships
4. Aaron Rodgers 1 NFL Championship (with probably more to come)
5. Brett Favre 1 NFL Championship

It is not just that he is the all time leader in interceptions thrown - that comes long with the other career records due to the longevity. It is that he threw so many idiotic throws that never had a chance and cost his team the game just because he couldn't rein his ego in.

The idiotic interception is not everything about his career, but the other things have been done by other people. Dan Marino had huge career stats. Peyton Manning will have huge career stats. Bradshaw and Montana won more Super Bowls. But the awesomely stupid interception - that really is a Favre thing. It is what truly makes his career unique.

His first regular season pass ever was intercepted and returned for a TD. His last pass as a Packer was an interception to lose the NFC Championship game. And the last play of his career (the second most memorable play of his career) fittingly summed up and typified his entire career: an idiotic interception to lose the NFC Championship game when they were already in field goal range. Goodnight Brett!

You are completely clueless about his career and Ill just leave it at that. No use in wasting my time with someone who has to much hate to have a rationale discussion with.

thunderkyss 08-09-2013 04:18 PM

Re: Raw Brutality, and Brett Favre’s Class... by Sage Rosenfels
 
Growing up, I didn't like Bret Favre.... actually, my little brother loved him, so naturally I had to loathe him. The first couple of years, we'd watch him do some crazy sht that would work & my brother would be all... see, see!!

I'd tell him, "That doesn't make him good, he's lucky & that luck is going to run out on him sooner or later."

Well, later never came. It took me a while, but I finally admitted to my little brother, that Favre was one of the best to play the game.






Now I hate Aaron Rogers.

HJam72 08-09-2013 04:31 PM

Re: Raw Brutality, and Brett Favre’s Class... by Sage Rosenfels
 
Any Texan fan has good reason to "hate" Aaron Rogers and Tom Brady after last season.


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