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View Full Version : Cowboys’ Jones boys deflate their own football people with draft ‘philosophy


Wolf
04-28-2013, 08:39 AM
There are football decisions, and there are football decisions. And in the realm of football decisions, the Dallas Cowboys' decision to trade down from their original 18th overall draft pick and move down the 31st pick formerly owned by the San Francisco 49ers is being questioned by just about everybody. Not so much because they traded down, but because of the player they took when they did so -- Wisconsin center Travis Frederick, a player many analysts had with a second- to third-round grade. Some would argue that Frederick wasn't even the best center on the board; Cal's Brian Schwenke and Alabama's Barrett Jones would also get votes. But the primary issue was that the Cowboys, a team that has drafted pretty horribly over the last few seasons, seem to have done it again in the wrong direction.
Brandon Jones of the Dallas Morning News recalled an exchange between Assistant Director of Player Personnel Tom Ciskowski and Chief Operating Officer, Executive Vice President, and Director of Player Personnel Stephen Jones during the team's live feed of the "war room" during the first round.



http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/cowboys-jones-boys-deflate-own-football-people-draft-130339621.html

Geeze

Playoffs
04-28-2013, 09:01 AM
The team has precisely zero picks left on the roster from the 2009 draft -- also known as the Roy Williams draft, because that was when the Joneses got fleeced by the Detroit Lions into giving up their first-round pick for receiver Roy Williams.

Jerry Jones recently defended the 2008 draft, which featured Felix Jones and Mike Jenkins as first-round picks and had some thinking that maybe the Cowboys were better off without those first-round picks in the first place.

“We got starting time out of both of them,’’ Jerry Jones said in early April. “That’s not enough, but those guys aren’t NFL busts."

... both players were overvalued disappointments, and that's been the order of the day for the franchise when the football decisions have been under Jones control. Perhaps that's because they struggle with the concept of football value in the first place. When it was pointed out to Stephen Jones that the Cowboys should have received a second-round pick per the trade value chart for their move down, Jones bristled.

“Not accurate,” he said. “We actually did better than the chart.”

Jerry Jones then said that “it’s a mistake to think that transactions go by any trade chart ... We invented trade charts; invented them in the NFL.”We invented football, invented the NFL. We invented Al Gore who invented the Internet. We invented teams and we invented America. :facepalm:

chicagotexan2
04-28-2013, 09:03 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/cowboys-jones-boys-deflate-own-football-people-draft-130339621.html

Geeze

I hope Jeremiah and lil Jeremiah are at the helm for many many more years. This is fun to watch.

SAMURAITEXAN
04-28-2013, 09:46 AM
Ha ha, Al's WTF moments passed on to Jerry. WTF saga continues. Stay tune for more of WTF moments same time next year.:bravo:

jaayteetx
04-28-2013, 10:01 AM
I hope Jeremiah and lil Jeremiah are at the helm for many many more years. This is fun to watch.

I second that!

Malloy
04-28-2013, 10:08 AM
I hope Jeremiah and lil Jeremiah are at the helm for many many more years. This is fun to watch.

Tis a great show :)

drs23
04-28-2013, 10:49 AM
Went over and cruised the Dallas board. This thread (http://cowboyszone.com/forums/dallascowboys.php?t=255486) where the Joneses are getting crucified by the folks that know what's going on and of course being defended by the homers.

Guess it's the same everywhere.

Thorn
04-28-2013, 07:20 PM
Any bad news about the Cowturds is good news to me. :)

GuerillaBlack
04-28-2013, 07:46 PM
Cowboys ain't **** with a salary cap.

Playoffs
04-29-2013, 12:42 AM
Sooooooo glad the Cowboys are up there and not down here. Watching their war room during Day 1 was really a sad sight. Jerruh and Boy making all the decisions, never once consulting with HC Garrett. The scout having words with Boy, and the total deflation and silence after they finally grabbed that 3rd round pick in the first.

What a pitiful organization. A perfect reflection of Jerruh. http://www.thedawgpound.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/kiss_mirror_smiley.gif

IDEXAN
04-29-2013, 07:06 AM
I don't give a damn about the Cowboys and certainly don't mind when they lose games, but using the 31st pick on a center hardly seems like a foolish move to me. Certainly not when we had 2 other teams in this Draft expending top 10 picks on their own interior OLineman, who knows this might actually end up being one of the best picks Dallas has made in years ?

ChampionTexan
04-29-2013, 07:24 AM
I don't give a damn about the Cowboys and certainly don't mind when they lose games, but using the 31st pick on a center hardly seems like a foolish move to me. Certainly not when we had 2 other teams in this Draft expending top 10 picks on their own interior OLineman, who knows this might actually end up being one of the best picks Dallas has made in years ?

It wasn't as simple as "The pick sucks because it's a Center". It's a combination of the fact that there were two other centers on the board who most analysts rated as equal to or better than Frederick, both of whom lasted until the 4th round, and the fact that the Jones's basically shut everybody out of the process when making the decision of who to pick.

Of course it's their right as owners to manage the process any way they want to manage it, but having the right to do it your way doesn't insulate you from managing it in a fashion that's counter-productive to the well being of your team.

The bottom line IMO is that Jerry Jones sucks in a major way at being the GM of an NFL team - it's his right to suck, and he is exercising that right.

thunderkyss
04-29-2013, 08:22 AM
Another take (http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2013/4/28/4277976/xxx-nfl-com-grades-all-seven-cowboys-draft-picks-as-2nd-to-3rd) on the Cowboy's draft.

All Seven Cowboys Draft Picks As 2nd To 3rd Rounders

The key here, and perhaps this is the defining characteristic of this draft class, is that the Cowboys have assembled seven football playing dudes here:


All seven guys are rated here as 2nd- or 3rd-round prospects.
All seven players are expected to become starters eventually.
Every single one of these players is likely to see a good number of snaps on offense or defense this year.
The entire draft class did not miss a single game due to injury, suspension or anything else in 2012.



“We use the expression, ‘If we,’” Garrett said. “If we evaluated these guys the right way and saw them the right way, we feel good about their potential to compete as starters, compete for roles or be special teams guys.

“If they are who we think they are, you have a great chance of having a good draft.”


I guess it's really how you look at it.

IDEXAN
04-29-2013, 08:27 AM
It wasn't as simple as "The pick sucks because it's a Center". It's a combination of the fact that there were two other centers on the board who most analysts rated as equal to or better than Frederick, both of whom lasted until the 4th round, and the fact that the Jones's basically shut everybody out of the process when making the decision of who to pick.

Of course it's their right as owners to manage the process any way they want to manage it, but having the right to do it your way doesn't insulate you from managing it in a fashion that's counter-productive to the well being of your team.

The bottom line IMO is that Jerry Jones sucks in a major way at being the GM of an NFL team - it's his right to suck, and he is exercising that right.
Look I'm the last person to defend Jerry Jones, like I was saying I could care less if his team loses every time they suit up and play on Sunday in this upcoming season. But c'mon, basing your Draft decisions on what "most analysts" say is, well a very dubious strategy for success in my book, don't you agree ? And you and I both could probably produce gobs of examples of what the analysts missed in their mocks when the Draft finally happened last week. One of my own personal favorite examples is Shariff Floyd, who was a nearly unanimous choice to be the first DT drafted and a top 5 pick, but fell all the say to the 20s before he was selected.
I don't know what Dallas saw in this center and what they didn't see in other prospects at the position, but it was probably something the analysts didn't have a clue about ? Maybe he went too early, so what if he's a second-round value who they took a half round too soon, if he fits for them and is what they hoped for I'd say they made a good move.

Dread-Head
04-29-2013, 08:51 AM
[editorial]


:soapbox:
I for one feel that Jerry Jones is a FINE GM and the decisions he has made with the Dallas Cowboy organization stand as testament to that fact. His encyclopedic knowledge of the game of football and the hiring decisions he's made over the years as reflected by coaching and player changes he's made exemplify his prowess in what I believe to be the finest game in the world.
As someone who has not missed a Cowboy game in more than 15 years I for one have rejoiced in the bulk of the decisions he's made. From the HUGE pay day he's given to Tony Romo to the building of a stadium visible from space, with each pasing day Jerry Jones proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's one of the best General managers in football.



...and if the previous statements are true then let me go on record in saying that Bill doesn't drink and doesn't frequent strip clubs, Cak isn't a lawyer and isn't married to a hot redhead, Joe Texan is known for his calm demeanor at Texans games and his perfectly discipherable banter at said games and I'm known for my conservative hair style and love of flatchested blondes and have a MAGNIFICENT bridge connecting Brooklyn to Manhattan that I really have to sell...cheap! But the part about me not missing a Cowboy game in 15 years is true.

HoustonFrog
04-29-2013, 08:59 AM
As a Cowboy fan I give this draft a C. I went in thinking O-line, D-line and safety. When Floyd dropped to 18, I was like, "there you go" but Jerry got caught with his pants down and got a weak 3rd to move down 13 spots and then watched more O-linemen go off the board. So they reached for Frederick. Not a bad player but a 2nd-4th rounder in most eyes. The rest of the draft was actually pretty talent rich though. The issue is did they need these guys. They get a TE who can catch and is considered a top talent so they can run NE type sets with Witten but TE was far down the list of needs and they passed the Safety the Texans took. They then go WR and Safety. WR is again talented BUT he is raw and they have WRs. The safety is athletic and a good player2 years down the road but only played safety one year. The rest of their guys were also considered strong players but not where we needed...an aging D-line in a new system and no more O-linemen. Overall, talented but reaches and guys who might need work. Not sure how that translates at .500.

I can also say that I'm a little embarrassed at the fan base at times. I go to CowboyZone above while there are plenty of realists there are many who to still kneel at the alter of Jerry and anything Romo and the team does. The rallying cry is to be positive but they aren't objective. During the draft, people were talking how Frederick was this perfect pick and was always rated a high second rounder. When myself and some others pointed out otherwise we were told Mayock and other scouts hated the Cowboys and were never right. When Mayock gave the Cowboys a positive draft score, he turned into an expert. I just shake my head at the excuses.

ChampionTexan
04-29-2013, 09:05 AM
Look I'm the last person to defend Jerry Jones, like I was saying I could care less if his team loses every time they suit up and play on Sunday in this upcoming season. But c'mon, basing your Draft decisions on what "most analysts" say is, well a very dubious strategy for success in my book, don't you agree ?

I agree with the overall position, and of course time will tell what kind of draft they really had (and time hasn't been a kind evaluator of their recent drafts).

But your issue seemed to be with the fact he's being criticized for his pick. Obviously those issuing the criticism would fall into the category of "most analysts", so I don't really see why there's anything to that point. Of course they're going to criticize it - it disagrees with what their version of the facts are. Nobody's going to sell newspapers/magazines or get web hits saying "I didn't have him rated that highly, but maybe Jerry's right".

Finally, you seem to be ignoring the whole issue with the decision making process. That's independent of who the pick was, and it's independent of how successful the pick ends up being. The allegation is that the Jones's basically brought in folks to do the work on analyzing and evaluating the talent pool, and then summarily ignored the work those folks did, and denied them any input in the selection process. If true, that's a comment on the overall environment up there, and the recent performance of the team would lend support to the fact it could well be true.

Playoffs
04-29-2013, 09:20 AM
Another take (http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2013/4/28/4277976/xxx-nfl-com-grades-all-seven-cowboys-draft-picks-as-2nd-to-3rd) on the Cowboy's draft. I guess it's really how you look at it.

Written by that famous sportswriter "One Cool Customer". Otherwise known as, One Myopic Cowboyfan. Yeah, yeah .... that's it ..... we screwed all the other teams cuz all our picks were second rounders. :lol:

Dallas Morning News Cowlishaw: Cowboys’ draft strategy defies logic; analyzing the picks (http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/2013/04/cowlishaw-cowboys-draft-strategy-defies-logic-analyzing-the-picks.html/)

Rotoworld/Yahoo Sports: Grade D (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/draft-2013-nfc-draft-grades-051400785.html)

If you watched, you could tell they panicked. They didn't get compensated the way other teams did for the trade. The look on Garrett's face when Boy was on the phone said it all. Jerruh shouldn't be a GM, and neither should his son. They do not understand how to incorporate value in their drafting. And their player selection is often poor.

The1ApplePie
04-29-2013, 09:28 AM
I was watching the draft with a friend of mine, who is a pure Cowboys homer, while I am just a fan. We couldn't believe that Floyd fell into their lap at 18. They needed a 3-tech and the best one dropped to them.

Then the 49ers logo popped up on the screen...

Whiffing on Floyd was bad enough, but they also got next to nothing to move back.

The Patriots got more for a lower pick.

IDEXAN
04-29-2013, 10:05 AM
I was watching the draft with a friend of mine, who is a pure Cowboys homer, while I am just a fan. We couldn't believe that Floyd fell into their lap at 18. They needed a 3-tech and the best one dropped to them.

Then the 49ers logo popped up on the screen...

Whiffing on Floyd was bad enough, but they also got next to nothing to move back.

The Patriots got more for a lower pick.
Who really knows what Floyd's value is ? The answer is, nobody right now, in a couple years we might know. I know the draft gurus rated him very highly, but I always liked the Mizzou got better (and BTW he was drafted higher), but the best of all was Star from Utah, but there's the heart issue, right ?
Oh wait a minute, the UH corner with the torn heart artery (ouch !), went #12 overall, so why should anybody be shy about taking Star with a murmer or whatever ?
Bottom line is these guys are gonna take who they want to, and aren't gonna be bothered by what all of the socalled analysts say. Remember how stupid we were taking Mario instead of Reggie ?

houstonspartan
04-29-2013, 10:29 AM
I'm at the point where I actually feel sorry for Cowboys fans. I don't even make fun of them anymore; I just pity them. My friends who are Cowboys fans are extremely arrogant when it comes to football, but, they've been really quiet the last few years.

It's kinda nice enjoying football season without loud-mouthed-assed Cowboys fans, but, at the same time, it's kind of sad to see a franchise destruct.

The1ApplePie
04-29-2013, 10:36 AM
Who really knows what Floyd's value is ? The answer is, nobody right now, in a couple years we might know. I know the draft gurus rated him very highly, but I always liked the Mizzou got better (and BTW he was drafted higher), but the best of all was Star from Utah, but there's the heart issue, right ?
Oh wait a minute, the UH corner with the torn heart artery (ouch !), went #12 overall, so why should anybody be shy about taking Star with a murmer or whatever ?
Bottom line is these guys are gonna take who they want to, and aren't gonna be bothered by what all of the socalled analysts say. Remember how stupid we were taking Mario instead of Reggie ?

Getting essentially nothing for the trade down is the problem. Especially since it meant Floyd, the second best safety, and all of the o-linemen were gone by the time the Cowboys picked.

eriadoc
04-29-2013, 10:37 AM
From the article in the first post:

Jerry Jones then said that “it’s a mistake to think that transactions go by any trade chart ... We invented trade charts; invented them in the NFL.”

The trade value chart isn't the be-all and-all, but if you're going to take credit for something, you should, you know, actually have done it. Technically, it was former Cowboys head coach Jimmy Johnson who brought the trade value chart to prominence in the NFL, and it was Cowboys insider Mike McCoy who really put in the work. So Jones is using the royal "we" there, just as he did when taking credit for the picks Johnson used to build a team that won three Super Bowls in the 1990s. That's why Johnson bailed, and it's why the Cowboys can't retain the kind of high-level talent that will consistently make the right kind of football decisions.

:popcorn:

The Pencil Neck
04-29-2013, 11:45 AM
I don't really have too much of a problem with the pick, itself. Kinda.

My thing is that if you've got a guy you want/need AND you're pretty sure he won't be there at your next pick, then take him.

So if Travis Frederick is your guy, you take him. If you think you can trade back, pick up some more picks, and still get him, then you do that.

I've got no problem with that part.

But part of the draft process has to be identifying the needs and desires of the other teams in the league. You've got to know what types of players the other teams are going to be drafting. It looked like Jones was afraid some other team was going to snatch Frederick away from them because there'd been a run on offensive linemen. And that was a mistake, I think.

And then there's the whole "someone-dropped-to-me-that-I-didn't-expect" thing. I think Floyd was the perfect guy for their new defense. But I don't think they expected him to fall and they never really thought about what they'd do if he did. So they got too short-sighted and focused on "their guy" and couldn't react properly when this twist happened.

In a way, it's like the Okoye draft. But where the Texans got surprised by Okoye and drafted him, the Cowboys got surprised by Floyd and didn't draft him. We'll have to wait and see if that was a mistake.

GlassHalfFull
04-29-2013, 02:50 PM
Here is a fun analysis/read

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2013/story/_/id/9221310/nfl-draft-jerry-jones-stunting-dallas-progress

eriadoc
04-29-2013, 03:08 PM
Here is a fun analysis/read

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2013/story/_/id/9221310/nfl-draft-jerry-jones-stunting-dallas-progress

I love it.

Later Thursday night, Jones threw his own pick in the end zone. He allowed himself to get fleeced by the best team in the Cowboys' conference, one that is already loaded with talent and stands in the way of Dallas' quest to win its first Super Bowl in 17 years.

For some inane reason, Jones opted to help San Francisco land the player it coveted in the first round of the draft -- Louisiana State safety Eric Reid -- and did so at a discounted rate.

Jones traded Dallas' No. 18 overall pick for the 49ers' 31st and 74th picks. Jones should not have settled for a third-round pick, not from the team that has been to the NFC Championship Game the past two seasons, winning it once. The 49ers are the team the Cowboys are chasing. Given their young, talented roster, the Niners didn't need any additional help. Jones should have insisted on a second-round pick. That would have constituted full value for the Cowboys' 18th overall selection.

And even then, the Cowboys could have used a safety, too. They could have plugged Reid in as a starter. They also could have used a defensive tackle, such as Florida's Sharrif Floyd, who fell to the Vikings at No. 23, or another wide receiver, such as Tennessee's Cordarrelle Patterson, whom the Vikings traded up to get at No. 29. Instead, Jones dropped back to select a player he could have gotten on Friday night and most likely could have gotten some time on Saturday. Wisconsin center Travis Frederick isn't a first-round talent. Even Frederick was shocked to be a first-round pick.

:lol:

ObsiWan
04-29-2013, 04:34 PM
I'm confused. Are we discussing this...

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRPx2cSkJ4YIZAuURJh5Y94sZECWgQwz WeAXzXyUgaTumzP302A3A

or this...

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSETHI1fHnAUQiaKrE-fqRReKlGn0SxiGxtXl6_2Rf0uq_INCAK

Hookem Horns
04-29-2013, 11:01 PM
I'm confused. Are we discussing this...

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRPx2cSkJ4YIZAuURJh5Y94sZECWgQwz WeAXzXyUgaTumzP302A3A

or this...

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSETHI1fHnAUQiaKrE-fqRReKlGn0SxiGxtXl6_2Rf0uq_INCAK

No this ...

http://www.terezowens.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Jerry-Jones.jpg

Playoffs
04-29-2013, 11:04 PM
No this ...
Well played, :lol: